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In retrospect....

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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 19 May 2011, 16:14
rhyme wrote:
I dont have a lot to add to your question but I thought I'd share one anecdote: I recall a story told by one of our professors that went something like this: Guy gets hired to be a assistant brand manager at a large CPG, and is placed in charge of some toothpaste. But not the entire toothpaste product. Just the travel sized one. And not the whole tube, just the lettering. But not the logo, and not the font, but the coloring and text underneath. In a typical MBA fashion, guy comes in and suggests that the right strategy is to complete an LBO of their next biggest competitor, sell off the pieces and own the market.....

Brand marketing is one of those things that seems really rewarding when you reach a certain point in the career - true P&L ownership, etc. In the short term it sounds a bit less exciting (to me personally). The pay is also weaker than most careers (early on anyway), but the work life balance is considered very good. The roles tend to appeal to those interested in general management because they generally offer the opportunity to work on everything from sourcing/procurement, marketing, legal, finance, pricing, etc. It's a multidisciplinary job.


ouch lol, that definitely makes me consider working for a non-traditional company where I might be able to take on a little more responsibility. I am really interested in more of the product development side, but I am guessing this might be hard to get into without any engineering background. I saw this fascinating segment on CNBC the other night about Supermarkets and the steps Pure (Henkel I believe) took to research, design and market some innovative packaging that's going to revolutionize the detergent industry and get it into the stores. That kind of thing really interests me but it's hard to know what steps the people working on this project took to get there. I imagine a product/brand manager has some input on this, but the level of which probably varies from company to company, with the smaller ones offering more of a chance to be involved at the concept level. Guess I have some research to do, but not sure how to connect with people currently in the industry right now. Is it too late to start looking at these things once school has started if you at least have a general idea of what you want to do?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 21 May 2011, 08:42
Fantods wrote:

This is a great thread with a ton of useful information for us incoming students. Is it possible to give a bit more background on what you all are doing in these "non-traditional" careers. Is that all strategic stuff that's really impactful?


I am also curious to know as to what constitutes a "non-traditional" career ? Any explanation would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 22 May 2011, 08:05
Very useful post, thank you.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 22 May 2011, 09:23
Thanks a ton rhyme, for yet another gem of a post, as always !!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 22 May 2011, 17:47
AlexMBAApply wrote:
Aside: if you've ever had to bring as part of your medical check up and records your chest X-ray film to the consulate because they require you to do so, you'll start to wonder what the point of it is -- what is an immigration officer going to do with an X-ray of your chest?)


Sadly, the days of this may soon be over. They have finally (I hear) developed a TB test that understands the fact that the rest of the world uses the BCG as an inoculation. Which having been subject to the nonsense "proving I don't have TB" process is a little sad, but somewhat finally keeping with the times.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 23 May 2011, 05:34
Does COMING from a non-traditional hurt your chances with traditional MBA firms during recruitment?

I ask because my pre-MBA background is with a non-traditional firm and the "traditional as transition" situation Alex Chu described (in terms of what he's seen) is representative of my own plans. It's not that we don't have MBAs at my boutique consulting firm (CEO from Kellogg, head of my region from HBS, some CBS/Stern/HBS folks around at the MD level) but there is no recruiting presence and my work experience, as a proposition, may not be easily 'understood'. Does that close the doors to traditional recruiting such as vanilla IB/MC/F500 GM and marketing?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 24 May 2011, 09:38
Rubashov1 wrote:
Definitely not too late once school has started, especially in two-year programs, since hardcore recruiting won't start until midway through the year (of course you might be a lot busier than you were before school, depending on the type of job you had). Your career center will have additional resources for that sort of research, plus the general knowledge of your peers on campus will help to answer the sorts of issues you raised.

One of the challenges for non-traditional routes (and even traditional routes such as PE/VC) is the timing versus on-campus recruiting. I think part of the reason I went the consulting route was because of the security of getting a job through on-campus recruiting and essentially having a year of worry-free fun after that. Of the two people I mentioned who love their jobs the most, one got hers about a month before graduation and the other got his three months after graduation.

So you'll have to make the big decision whether to not fully participate in on-campus recruiting and wait to find something less traditional later in the year.


So theoretically you can interview for the on-campus companies and ask them questions, talk to more people etc and if you don't get a good feeling about them, you still have time to then go through a second wave of interviews with some lesser known companies? Or is this not really something that is likely to be pulled off?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 24 May 2011, 10:20
Michmax3 wrote:
Rubashov1 wrote:
Definitely not too late once school has started, especially in two-year programs, since hardcore recruiting won't start until midway through the year (of course you might be a lot busier than you were before school, depending on the type of job you had). Your career center will have additional resources for that sort of research, plus the general knowledge of your peers on campus will help to answer the sorts of issues you raised.

One of the challenges for non-traditional routes (and even traditional routes such as PE/VC) is the timing versus on-campus recruiting. I think part of the reason I went the consulting route was because of the security of getting a job through on-campus recruiting and essentially having a year of worry-free fun after that. Of the two people I mentioned who love their jobs the most, one got hers about a month before graduation and the other got his three months after graduation.

So you'll have to make the big decision whether to not fully participate in on-campus recruiting and wait to find something less traditional later in the year.


So theoretically you can interview for the on-campus companies and ask them questions, talk to more people etc and if you don't get a good feeling about them, you still have time to then go through a second wave of interviews with some lesser known companies? Or is this not really something that is likely to be pulled off?


I imagine that that would be difficult in most situations. Speaking only about full-time positions, rather than internships, the on-campus recruiting starts really early in the Fall and generally wraps up in November with a few laggards beyond that. Companies that don't come on campus are more likely to recruit in the Spring, which would happen after the deadline for accepting any on-campus offers. There are exceptions, but I would wager that the timelines I laid out apply to ~80% of companies.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 24 May 2011, 11:29
Awesome reply AlexMBAApply! With your information said, does it make sense to recruit for both consulting/banking and non-traditional career paths?

Ideally, I'd like to pursue non-traditional recruiting, but don't want to give up the security of having an offer on or near graduation. Given the different timelines between non-traditional and traditional recruiting, I doubt that it would be acceptable to accept a traditional offer by December/January, and then recruit for non-traditional opportunities. Moreover, I doubt that it'd be ethical to turn down an accepted traditional offer once a non-traditional offer is in your pocket. How do b-school students deal with these conflicting commitments and do they often spurn an accepted offer?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 24 May 2011, 11:33
futurestrategist wrote:
Awesome reply AlexMBAApply! With your information said, does it make sense to recruit for both consulting/banking and non-traditional career paths?

Ideally, I'd like to pursue non-traditional recruiting, but don't want to give up the security of having an offer on or near graduation. Given the different timelines between non-traditional and traditional recruiting, I doubt that it would be acceptable to accept a traditional offer by December/January, and then recruit for non-traditional opportunities. Moreover, I doubt that it'd be ethical to turn down an accepted traditional offer once a non-traditional offer is in your pocket. How do b-school students deal with these conflicting commitments and do they often spurn an accepted offer?


If you read my previous post (I know I can be a bit long winded, but if you have the patience haha...), you'll know your answer.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 24 May 2011, 13:43
Rubashov1 wrote:
The basic point here around the different recruiting timelines is that you have to commit to one or the other: early traditional versus late non-traditional.

You can't do both (successfully) and not break the rules. Accepting an offer from on-campus and continuing to recruit is considered a big no-no.

Plenty of people will set their sights really high on traditional ("only McKinsey" or something like that) and if unsuccessful go the non-traditional route later in the school year.


Thanks guys for the responses. This is incredibly helpful to think about now before starting in the Fall. I guess the internship can help you determine if that is the right path for you, correct? I'm sensing that ideally you want to intern somewhere that you would want to work full-time because they are likely to make you an offer, but let's say I intern at P&G or wherever and absolutely hate the work and the large corporate atmosphere, I then have the opportunity to interview for less traditional companies for full-time work during my second year. Right? Or is the 2-3 month internship not really enough time to gage whether you want to pursue that career path?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 26 May 2011, 09:37
this might be annoying but anyone at the business school (either graduated or on-going) regretted paying 100K to 150K for an mba?

Even a tiny bit?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 26 May 2011, 11:30
So what happens when you get an offer say in Jan/Feb, you accept then come Sep and the firm tells you the position is no longer available? Just s*** out of luck?

Has anyone heard of this happening or have had this happen?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 26 May 2011, 11:36
lulumocha wrote:
So what happens when you get an offer say in Jan/Feb, you accept then come Sep and the firm tells you the position is no longer available? Just s*** out of luck?

Has anyone heard of this happening or have had this happen?


You report it to your career services department and if that company does that enough (without good reason), they'll probably be black-listed from recruiting on campus. Sure it's happened (like a few years ago with the financial crisis) and it would suck to scramble for a job but hopefully you have a strong career services group that can go to bat for you and get you in touch with companies that are hiring.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 26 May 2011, 13:15
lulumocha wrote:
So what happens when you get an offer say in Jan/Feb, you accept then come Sep and the firm tells you the position is no longer available? Just s*** out of luck?

Has anyone heard of this happening or have had this happen?


I think it happened a little bit to the classes that graduated in the worst of the recession.

I know of one guy who got hit that way by a big Swiss company (and he had interned there the year before). He just had to go back to normal job-hunting and joined a boutique consulting firm around December/January, 7-8 months after graduating.

More common was delayed start dates, typically around January I think.

While career services departments puff up about how wrong that is and that they'll punish the recruiter, I think it's all BS. Sure, maybe if it's some small company that rarely recruits on campus. But I think career services are total lackeys to the normal big firms that recruit on campus.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 26 May 2011, 14:08
I would add to the rhyme's list of professors: Eppley, McGill, Davis, Veronesi, and Pastor. Cochrane and Tobi are also very well regarded but they teach some REALLY tough classes. I spent some times 10+ hours on Veronesi's Risk Management class (his easiest one) and did so extremelly happy as I learned and in the process made friends.

I pretty much agree with this thread and will have to come back later this weekend to tell my own experience almost 1 year out of school (sorry working in banking :wink: )
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 29 May 2011, 19:16
All,

This seems a relevant thread to post queries on non-traditional career paths. I want to do Strategy Consulting in an internal consulting unit at a tech or telecom firm. (I've done Pre-Sales Telecom Consulting). I hear that such roles provide for a better understanding of an industry and the consultants get to have a say in implementing their recommendations too... This paves the way for progression to a more substantial role within the organization too... I've just scratched the surface to find out which firms recruit for such roles at the top schools, but I have come up with only a handful names: BT, Samsung, Siemens...

Based on the experiences of those who were interested in Consulting during recruitment at b school, can anybody think of more names? Also, I hear the work-life balance in such roles is better compared to MC firms and that extensive travel is not required.

Cheers!!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 14 Jun 2013, 02:32
Your words have a Yoda - like quality.

This is why I like GC so much. Its very little about GMAT, but an approach to life.
Same is said about religion......
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 14 Jun 2013, 10:38
eskimoroll wrote:
lulumocha wrote:
So what happens when you get an offer say in Jan/Feb, you accept then come Sep and the firm tells you the position is no longer available? Just s*** out of luck?

Has anyone heard of this happening or have had this happen?


You report it to your career services department and if that company does that enough (without good reason), they'll probably be black-listed from recruiting on campus. Sure it's happened (like a few years ago with the financial crisis) and it would suck to scramble for a job but hopefully you have a strong career services group that can go to bat for you and get you in touch with companies that are hiring.


Career Services will tell you they blacklist. This is intended to help alleviate your concerns. The truth of course, is they almost NEVER blacklist.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 28 Mar 2014, 10:40
Expert's post
Bumping an old thread because I want the perspective of some graduates. I'm going to pay for Kellogg almost completely in debt. My plan had been to do consulting 1-2 years after to pay it off, and then settle into a high paying job with less hours/travel. I'm on the slightly younger side, and will be just turning 29 when I graduate business school. This thread seems pretty anti-consulting, but I figure a one or two year investment in a job I don't love in order to pay off debt and get my resume gold-stamped seems like a good strategy to me. Then I'll be 31 and can start a family (I have a long-term girlfriend who will be willing to put up with all of this). I grew up poor in a shitty neighborhood, and I want to be able to send my future kids to private school and all that. Wondering everyone's perspective on this strategy?

Also I'm starting to consider Deloitte over MBB, since it seems to be a less stressful environment (I don't want to ruin my health in the two years), is this a worthwhile choice for my strategy, or should I just got for the best.

Thanks everyone!
Re: In retrospect....   [#permalink] 28 Mar 2014, 10:40
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