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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for

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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 11 Nov 2008, 14:31
GMAT TIGER wrote:
study wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.
D.If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.


B. We need to be focused on "Microeconomics" and 1990-1995.

A. Out of scope:- Prior to 1995 could mean prior to 1990 and we do not know about the seminars offered before 1990.
B. Perfect.
C. Out of scope:- Pretty much similar to A.
D. Out of scope:- Only about International Business not on Microeconomics.
E. Out of scope:- Similar to D.


Agree with E. I do not know why I choose B instead of E.

May be because of lots of pressure. :twisted: :twisted: Sorry guys.

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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 11 Nov 2008, 23:12
somerandomguy wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true? ( Microeconomics + Not Applied Economics) --> ???

Candidate who entered the program in 1990 + (1991 through 1994) --> Microeconomics
Candidate who entered the program in 1994 + (1995 to the present) --> Applied Economics

If Mircoeconomics we cannot infer that it was 1991 through 1994 because this is a sufficient condition.
Not Applied Economics --> not after 1994 (1994 and before)

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
This statement could be true. However, we must eliminate this choice because we cannot ensure that a candidate for the MBA in 1975 took Microeconomics.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
My choice. This follows directly from the statements above.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.
This is wrong for two reasons. This means that all candidates entered the program. Too strong! Additionally, we must eliminate this choice because we cannot ensure that a candidate for the MBA in 1975 took Microeconomics.
D.If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
Eliminate. This means all students who applied attended the school. This is too strong.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
Eliminate. This means all students who applied attended the school. This is too strong.


I give! I agree with you guys and E. Is there such a thing as a negative Kudo? Give me one of those....
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Re: Give a shot [#permalink] New post 12 Nov 2008, 02:07
Why not C?

Premises:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics...but it does not say all Micoeconomics taker must be student entered the program after 1990

That student...
took a seminar on Microeconomics
-->the student may take micoeconomic due to the complusory requirement or take it as an elective
but, did not take a seminar on Applied Economics--> must be prior 1995

Therefore, the answer is C...
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 12 Nov 2008, 10:05
JorgeStevenson wrote:
It's C. I think a lot of you guys are getting the logic backwards.

Quote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.

B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.

D.If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.


A was my first choice until I got to C and realized that they wanted you to focus specifically on the International Business MBA.

B & E are not correct and here's why...We know for a FACT that this guy has taken the microeconomics seminar. The problem is, we don't know whether he was required to take it, or whether he just took it for the hell of it. The microecon seminar only became a required course after 1990. This guy could have entered the IB program in '89, taken the microecon seminar because he thought it was interesting, and then went on his merry way to getting his degree. You guys are right that if he entered the program between 91-94 he would HAVE to take the microecon course. But that's getting the logic backwards. We already know he took the microecon course. We just don't know whether it was a requirement or not.

C is the correct answer. If the guy hasn't taken the Applied Econ seminar, then there is no possible way that he entered the course later than 1994. If he entered after 1994, he would have been required to take that class. That's ALL we know in this problem. Just because he took the microecon course doesn't mean he did it because of a requirement.

D is wrong because, as many of you have pointed out, he could have entered the program between 91 & 94, in which case he would have taken Microecon but not Applied Econ.

In summary, I think a lot of you are getting the logic wrong for this problem. You have to start with what you know about the student: he took Micro but not Applied. Then you realize that there was a requirement for Applied, so the fact that he didn't take it means that he was not required to. That would get you to the right answer. Further, you could realize that just because he took micro does not mean he was required to take it. Basically, a requirement guarantees that you take the class...so lack of class means lack of requirement. Presence of class does not necessarily mean presence of requirement.

Hope that helps (and hope it was right, too). Good luck w/ the studying, everybody. Peace.

EDIT:

Just a little diagram:

Requirement ----> Class
Class ----/-----> Requirement
BUT
No Class -------> No requirement

Is that the contrapositive? I forget those terms...maybe somebody who remembers can enlighten us?


In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

In light of the part I have made bold I still feel E should be the answer

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?
In C
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.

There is no information given in the argument about requirements of an international MBA student prior 1990. Hence the must criteria will not be satisfied by C
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 12 Nov 2008, 21:00
Does anyone know the OA for this one?

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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 13 Nov 2008, 13:00
Late response but it has to be E!

E - choice clearly boundaries the input conditions
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 13 Nov 2008, 15:23
Another E
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2008, 14:47
Can we get the OA for this?
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2008, 20:36
E.
As I went on reading the choices, I found E is better than B.

What is the OA?
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 16 Nov 2008, 01:17
Only JorgeStevenson got it right. This is a tricky qs.

OA is C
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 16 Nov 2008, 07:13
study wrote:
Only JorgeStevenson got it right. This is a tricky qs.

OA is C


Superb post +1

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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 16 Nov 2008, 07:40
Thanks vscid.

Thanks all for your participation in this discussion
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 17 Nov 2008, 06:48
JorgeStevenson wrote:
Ok, this is my last stab at this.

Imagine this were the question:



In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1990.

B. The student entered the Business program after 1990.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1990.

D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990.

E. None of the above.


If you did not answer E, you are wrong. Just because you take a course in Microecon does not mean you entered the program after 1990. We know that if you entered the program after 1990, you must have taken a course in Microecon. We DO NOT know if the reverse is true. A student who took microecon could have entered the program at any time. All we know is that, if he had entered the program after 1990, he would have been required to take microecon. If he had entered prior to 1990, he would not have been required to take microecon, but he could have taken it if he had wanted to.

I'll try and come up with an analogous question:

In the NFL Hall of Fame, since 1995 all candidates for induction had played in the league for a minimum of 7 seasons. Since 2000, all candidates had played in the league for a minimum of 9 seasons.

A Hall of Fame inductee has been selected at random. He played in the NFL for 8 seasons. Which of the following must be true?

(A) He became a candidate for induction to the Hall of Fame before 1995.
(B) He became a candidate for induction to the Hall of Fame after 1995.
(C) He became a candidate for induction to the Hall of Fame before 2000.
(D) He became a candidate for induction to the Hall of Fame after 2000.
(E) He became a candidate for induction to the Hall of Fame after 1995 but before 2000.


The answer is C. All we know is that the guy did not play in the league for more than 9 seasons. Therefore he could not have been up for indiction after 2000, because all the candidates that went up for induction after 2000 had played for at least 9 seasons. Therefore he must have been a candidate for induction before 2000.

Do we definitively know whether he was a candidate for induction after 1995? No. Just because he played more than 7 seasons in the league does not mean he was inducted after 1995. We know that all the players who actually WERE candidates after 1995 played more than 7 seasons, but it is also very possible that prior to 1995 there could have been players inducted who had played for at least 7 years. So we don't know anything about whether he was inducted prior to 1995.


As a last word, it's like the "All squares are rectangles. A randomly selected quadrilateral is a rectangle. Is it a square?" question.

Alright that's my last stab at it yall. Good luck.


I think I finally got you.

Thanks.
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 17 Nov 2008, 13:42
HI guys, I have a very different doubt...
A says that the student entered the business program prior to 1995, and C also says the same thing.
Isn't it implied, that the student theyare talking is student of MBIM????
I thinkthat it should be implied.

ritula wrote:
My choice is E
study wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.

B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.

D.If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 02 Jan 2009, 15:09
bump
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CR - Business Program [#permalink] New post 26 Jun 2011, 13:23
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.

B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.

D.If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
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Re: CR - Business Program [#permalink] New post 26 Jun 2011, 15:19
what is the OE for this?
Not sure how the OA can be C.


C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995. - if this is true, what if the student entered the program in 1994.
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Re: CR - Business Program [#permalink] New post 26 Jun 2011, 17:18
C according to me.

Necessary --> Sufficient
Premise 1: 1990+ --> Microeconomics. Contrapositive : ~Microeconomics --> ~1990+
Premise 2: 1994+ --> Applied Economics. Contrapositive ~Applied Economics --> ~1994+
Conclusion: Microeconomics
~Applied Economics

We can only conclude ~Applied Economics --> ~1994+ (from contrapositive of Premise 2).
Taking Microeconomics, does not guarantee that student graduated after 1990 (Invalid Reasoning).

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Re: CR - Business Program [#permalink] New post 27 Jun 2011, 00:52
why can't it be E.

Think E is more precise in considering after 1990 & prior to 1995
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Re: CR - Business Program [#permalink] New post 27 Jun 2011, 06:38
I also thought it was E. Kaplan gave the same reason for why it can't be as Crick.
Re: CR - Business Program   [#permalink] 27 Jun 2011, 06:38
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