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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for

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Re: CR [#permalink] New post 16 Dec 2012, 20:24
No actually. If you read the last three answer choices again, it becomes clear that all of those three are implying this: if the student was a candidate... then the student entered the program, definitively, meaning if you were a candidate, you definitely entered the program, there was no being a candidate and not NOT entering the program. the stimulus, however, doesn't support this; it makes a subtly distinction when it says "all candidates for mba WHO ENTERED the program.." implying that not all candidates made it. so C, D and E don't qualify. Left between A and B. A leaves no left hand side limit to how far back in history you could go and the stimulus doesn't necessarily support that microeconomics was available prior to 1990. B sets the range as discussed on the stimulus and hence has to be the right answer, although i myself got it wrong the first two times i tried.

icandy wrote:
study wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.

B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.

D.If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.



Who is a candidate for MBA in IB? A student who has been admitted and fulfilled the course requirements, not all those who applied.

Stem is talking about candidates for MBA in IB not about MBA in Finance or marketing.

B has broader scope. In other words we only know about candidates for MBA in IB. It is very well possible that a marketing MBA candidate who might have entered the program after 1990 or before 1995 might fit this or might not fit this. We cannot apply it to the entire business program.

Hence E.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2012, 02:47
anandsebastin wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.


The questions tempts us into a common fallacy given in E.

Entered after 1990 => Took Microeconomics

but

Took Microeconomics does not => Entered after 1990

The general principle is, A=> B does not mean B=> A

That is the trap. If you see through this, answer C will be obvious.

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Last edited by SravnaTestPrep on 17 Dec 2012, 18:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2012, 09:09
I originally chose C, but see why E is correct. You have to remember that the student did not necessarily take microeconomics. A student could have enrolled in 1950 and fulfilled the requirement just like a student who enrolled in 1993.

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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2012, 16:58
Expert's post
Hi all,

I think pretty interesting discussion has gone in this thread, with some of the members making really elaborate and explanatory posts.

However, I think the issue at hand can be simplified further. So, let me try my bit at it.

Clearly, the only confusion is between option C and option E. The only difference between option C and option E is that option E makes the entering year later than 1990.

So, let's just focus on this part:

Let's see the relevant part of the passage:
"In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics"

and the relevant part of question stem
"If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics"

So, the passage says that all students (or candidates, let's use the same terms) who entered program after 1990 took Microeconomics

Now consider, if I, during my MBA, took a course on Microeconomics; can you say that I entered the program only after 1990?

If your answer to this question is yes, then my question is that what makes you think that I could not have entered before 1990? Clearly, all students who entered after 1990 had to take Microeconomics but it doesn't mean that students who entered before 1990 could not take Microeconomics.

If students who entered before 1990 could indeed take Microeconomics, then I could be one of those students. Isn't it?

Let's consider an analogy here:
All students who entered the school in a red dress got a tight slap on their face.

Now, if I say that I got a tight slap on my face, can you say that I wore a red dress to the school?

No, you can't say that. Because a red dress ensures a slap but the school authorities could, at their whims and fancies, slap anyone in any dress :) We are only given that a person in red dress won't be spared but we can't say about others.

Similarly, if a person took Microeconomics (a slap), we can't say he entered after 1990 (wore a red dress).

Hope this helps :)

If anyone has doubts, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev

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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2012, 20:06
egmat wrote:
Hi all,

I think pretty interesting discussion has gone in this thread, with some of the members making really elaborate and explanatory posts.

However, I think the issue at hand can be simplified further. So, let me try my bit at it.

Clearly, the only confusion is between option C and option E. The only difference between option C and option E is that option E makes the entering year later than 1990.

So, let's just focus on this part:

Let's see the relevant part of the passage:
"In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics"

and the relevant part of question stem
"If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics"

So, the passage says that all students (or candidates, let's use the same terms) who entered program after 1990 took Microeconomics

Now consider, if I, during my MBA, took a course on Microeconomics; can you say that I entered the program only after 1990?

If your answer to this question is yes, then my question is that what makes you think that I could not have entered before 1990? Clearly, all students who entered after 1990 had to take Microeconomics but it doesn't mean that students who entered before 1990 could not take Microeconomics.

If students who entered before 1990 could indeed take Microeconomics, then I could be one of those students. Isn't it?

Let's consider an analogy here:
All students who entered the school in a red dress got a tight slap on their face.

Now, if I say that I got a tight slap on my face, can you say that I wore a red dress to the school?

No, you can't say that. Because a red dress ensures a slap but the school authorities could, at their whims and fancies, slap anyone in any dress :) We are only given that a person in red dress won't be spared but we can't say about others.

Similarly, if a person took Microeconomics (a slap), we can't say he entered after 1990 (wore a red dress).

Hope this helps :)

If anyone has doubts, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev



Appreciate your choosing of "slap" as the example. :lol:

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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 24 Aug 2013, 22:53
egmat wrote:
Hi all,

I think pretty interesting discussion has gone in this thread, with some of the members making really elaborate and explanatory posts.

However, I think the issue at hand can be simplified further. So, let me try my bit at it.

Clearly, the only confusion is between option C and option E. The only difference between option C and option E is that option E makes the entering year later than 1990.

So, let's just focus on this part:

Let's see the relevant part of the passage:
"In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics"

and the relevant part of question stem
"If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics"

So, the passage says that all students (or candidates, let's use the same terms) who entered program after 1990 took Microeconomics

Now consider, if I, during my MBA, took a course on Microeconomics; can you say that I entered the program only after 1990?

If your answer to this question is yes, then my question is that what makes you think that I could not have entered before 1990? Clearly, all students who entered after 1990 had to take Microeconomics but it doesn't mean that students who entered before 1990 could not take Microeconomics.

If students who entered before 1990 could indeed take Microeconomics, then I could be one of those students. Isn't it?

Let's consider an analogy here:
All students who entered the school in a red dress got a tight slap on their face.

Now, if I say that I got a tight slap on my face, can you say that I wore a red dress to the school?

No, you can't say that. Because a red dress ensures a slap but the school authorities could, at their whims and fancies, slap anyone in any dress :) We are only given that a person in red dress won't be spared but we can't say about others.

Similarly, if a person took Microeconomics (a slap), we can't say he entered after 1990 (wore a red dress).

Hope this helps :)

If anyone has doubts, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev


Dear Chiranjeev;

I am a E-Gmat Student. I appreciate the way you have explained the above example. I still have a doubt in this question. Student joining prior to 1990 can have both option to attend either seminar on MicroEconomics or Applied Economics. hence a student may have attended applied economics also if he is joining prior to 1990. The question asks which "must be true". Choice E is the condition which is must be true as it satisfies the required conditions in all cases.

Your justification for choice C is acceptable, but it is not always true, whereas choice E is always true.

Please explain and give one condition where E is not the choice for "must be true"

Many Thanks in Advance.

Regards,
Amit
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 25 Aug 2013, 04:08
Gian wrote:
amitbharadwaj7 wrote:
egmat wrote:
Hi all,

I think pretty interesting discussion has gone in this thread, with some of the members making really elaborate and explanatory posts.

However, I think the issue at hand can be simplified further. So, let me try my bit at it.

Clearly, the only confusion is between option C and option E. The only difference between option C and option E is that option E makes the entering year later than 1990.

So, let's just focus on this part:

Let's see the relevant part of the passage:
"In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics"

and the relevant part of question stem
"If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics"

So, the passage says that all students (or candidates, let's use the same terms) who entered program after 1990 took Microeconomics

Now consider, if I, during my MBA, took a course on Microeconomics; can you say that I entered the program only after 1990?

If your answer to this question is yes, then my question is that what makes you think that I could not have entered before 1990? Clearly, all students who entered after 1990 had to take Microeconomics but it doesn't mean that students who entered before 1990 could not take Microeconomics.

If students who entered before 1990 could indeed take Microeconomics, then I could be one of those students. Isn't it?

Let's consider an analogy here:
All students who entered the school in a red dress got a tight slap on their face.

Now, if I say that I got a tight slap on my face, can you say that I wore a red dress to the school?

No, you can't say that. Because a red dress ensures a slap but the school authorities could, at their whims and fancies, slap anyone in any dress :) We are only given that a person in red dress won't be spared but we can't say about others.

Similarly, if a person took Microeconomics (a slap), we can't say he entered after 1990 (wore a red dress).

Hope this helps :)

If anyone has doubts, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev


Dear Chiranjeev;

I am a E-Gmat Student. I appreciate the way you have explained the above example. I still have a doubt in this question. Student joining prior to 1990 can have both option to attend either seminar on MicroEconomics or Applied Economics. hence a student may have attended applied economics also if he is joining prior to 1990. The question asks which "must be true". Choice E is the condition which is must be true as it satisfies the required conditions in all cases.

Your justification for choice C is acceptable, but it is not always true, whereas choice E is always true.

Please explain and give one condition where E is not the choice for "must be true"

Many Thanks in Advance.

Regards,
Amit


I'll reiterate Chiranjeev's explanation with an example.

This is Conditional Logic. If X happens, Y happens.

Consider a simpler condition: If it is cold, I will wear a sweater.
The inverse of this statement is the negation of both clauses: If it is not cold, I will not wear a sweater.
The converse reverses the order of the clauses: If I wear a sweater, it is cold.
The contrapositive both negates and reverses: If I will not wear a sweater, it is not cold.

Under the rules of classical logic, if a statement is true, its contrapositive must also be true. The statement’s negation and converse, however, are NOT necessarily true. For the sweater example, this means the following:

Statement -> If it is cold, I will wear a sweater. TRUE
Inverse -> If it is not cold, I will not wear a sweater. TRUE OR FALSE – I may wear a sweater even if it is not cold.
Converse -> If I will wear a sweater, it is cold. TRUE OR FALSE. I may wear a sweater even if it is warm.
Contrapositive -> If I will not wear a sweater, it is not cold. TRUE. If it were cold, I would wear a sweater. Since I won’t wear a sweater, it must not be cold.

Initially, I was also tied between C & E. Then, I read the above logic and it has helped solving "Must be True" Q's correctly till date.

Let's come back to the Question.

Argument:
Condition 1 => In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and
Condition 2 => All candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

Contrapositive of Condition 2 => If a student did not attend a seminar on Applied Economics, then he must not have entered after 1994. TRUE
Converse of Condition 1 => If a students attends a seminar on Microeconomics, then he must have entered after 1990. FALSE

Now C & E both contains the Contrapositive logic but NOTE E contains some additional info which is CONVERSE of Condition 1.

E : If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Hence, E may be TRUE OR FALSE. The words are confusing but once you practice using this logic, it'll become easy. Hope it helps.

This is the original link
http://www.knewton.com/blog/gmat/2010/12/01/how-to-use-formal-logic-gmat-critical-reasoning/


Thanks Gian, your post helped me a lot to clear my thought process.

Regards,
Amit
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 16 Oct 2013, 14:10
what is the difference, in meaning, between E and C....can somebody provide the OE
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 27 Jan 2014, 21:51
Both C and E are correct as written. The issue is that answer choice C is written incorrectly. It should be "C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994." With that logic, it would be incorrect because the candidate could have entered the program in that year.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2014, 06:45
anandsebastin wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1995.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.


If E is true, then C MUST also be true. After all, if X enters a program after year A and before year B, then X automatically enters the program before year B.
So for the people claiming E to be the correct answer, here's your mistake:
You're assuming that students who entered IB in this program before the year 1991 DID NOT take a seminar on Microeconomics. However the argument makes no such claim.
Answer is C.
Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for   [#permalink] 13 Mar 2014, 06:45
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