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Indian Applicant pool

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Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 15 Apr 2011, 20:56
Hi All,
I see a lot ( i mean a lottttt) of posts talk abpout IIM( Indian IT Male) and how important it is for an Indian Male planning to apply overseas to get a GMAT>=700.

How do you categorize Indian Applicant. Just because I'm an Indian male, I need >= 700 irrespective of my workex, education and other parts of application. Isnt diversity of profile of any importance? I will throw in my case here; You guys can have a better look at my profile on :
profile-evaluation-request-112200.html

I'm an Indian , Chartered Accountant first attempt( only .02% pass in first attempt out of 70,000 odd students), Cost and Management Accountant - First attempt ( only .3% pass in first attempt our of 40,000 odd students).
I have 7 years of post qualification experience ( excl 3 years of Articleship with Price waterhouse). Out of 6 years, I have 2 years of intl experience in whole of europe( paris, london, germany, finland, poland,madrid,milan austria) and 6 months in Newyork. Currently I'm working as an M&A lead for a major Oil field services company in Oman for last 6 months.In the past I have worked with companies such as HSBC, GE Capital and Deutsche bank in IBD. Been in leadership roles for last couple of years now.

Now, If you see , I have nothing related, in terms of profile, to a typical Indian IT( Engineer) Male and my profile is very different from any other fellow CA( who is into Audit or tax). What I understand and from my research is that hardly any Indian CA/CMA applies for overseas B-schools every year. If you guys have any data on this , will be of great help.

Is there any statistics on how much Indian journalist score on GMAT, Indian Doctors score or Indian CAs score? I dont think so .. So is it fair for any Intl Bschool to catergorize me or anyone who isnt in IT as a Typical "IIM" and have unwritten rule of minimum 700 GMAT.

I have given my gmat earlier and score 610( definitely low) and plan to write again and aim to score the highest.I plan to apply for Insead, IMD and LBS with Insead being a dream school. So were do u guys think I stand say If i score 670-680 on GMAT.

Thanks
Sudhir
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 17 Apr 2011, 08:27
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Hi there, sudhir,

I can understand the frustration of applying to b-school as one of the many thousands of other applicants. However, the nature of the beast is that categorizing saves time (as bad as that sounds).

Truth is, there's no true way to categorize anyone. As anyone would argue, everybody is an individual. I am different from you; you are different from the guy living next door; and the guy living nex door is different from Justin Bieber. Everyone walks a different line and hums a different tune. So if that's the case, how does a school, such as Harvard, separate out 9000 such-individualized applicants? There's no true other way but to start categorizing/grouping applicants. When we have 9000 applicants applying to Harvard and let's just say that 2500 of those are Indians. There's no way that all 2500 will make it, correct? Of course (given the fact that the class if onliy about 900 people anyway). There has to be a way to "group" these 2500 people; therefore, almost a misnomer now - the Indian IT group. Why? Because AdComs have seen so many Indians, who were IT-driven, works in an IT or engineering field, and applying to b-school in 3 to 5 years. Are we saying that all of these 2500 applicant are Indian-IT? Of course not. But it's the mere fact that you'd have to beat out the other 2499 to secure a spot at Harvard makes it extremely difficult. What if there was only 3 Argentina CPAs applying to Harvard? Odds are the Argentinians have a better shot at getting into Harvard simply because of mere probabilities. There's no statistics given publicly to what doctors get on GMAT, or what CPAs get on GMAT, or Lawyers get on GMAT. Perhaps internally within a school that information is circulated, but it certainly is not made public. With that said, it all goes back to the fact that if there were 2500 Indians applying to Harvard and the average of that sample group (which is a fairly good size to indicate average and median) is 710, it becomes intrinsically harder for another Indian applicant to stand out in the crowd with a 610. I'm not saying that people with 610 shouldn't apply, but my point is that by categorizing each group it helps the AdComs to make a decision on who to get in. Afterall, since everyone's different, how would AdComs judge who gets to go in and who doesn't? Something has to give and it makes it easier (and a lot more sense) to divide the applicants up into different countries of origin, this way it gives the AdComs a realistic shot of how you fare against your own nationality, which may or may not have a different standards from the American schooling system. I hope this helps clear up a bit and while it is almost unfair to any reasonable mind, that's just the way it has to be until a better system comes along.

Going back to your profile, being NOT in the IT field makes you a bit specialized. However, with a 610 right now it's a long shot at Insead, IMD and LBS. With 670-680, you have a shot and if you're only wishing to go to these three schools, go for it! I have to take a guess that your preferential work location post-MBA is in Europe, and not in the states. If you do prefer to be in the states, rearrange these schools with some US b-schools.

Lastly, you just have to put yourself in the shoes of an admission personnel. Ask yourself "what you bring to the school in terms of knowledge and experience". This will not only help you write your essays later on, but it will also give you a general framework to how you're a specialized individual, such as those 3 Argentinian CPAs and not that 2500 Indian IT guys. I know that each and everyone is an individual and has individualized personality, and I'll stand my ground for anyone who says he/she is exactly like me (god, I hope not), but in the grand scheme of things, I had to prove it to b-school that I truly am different. If I were you, don't harp too much on your nationality and such, because those are just statistics and probabilities. Do the best you can on your application and you'll be treated as such when adcoms view your profile.

Disclaimer: all number used above are fabricated on the spot. Please don't hold me to it.
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 17 Apr 2011, 11:36
Great perspective bakfed!
I am looking to understand these things and your post helps!
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 17 Apr 2011, 21:34
Thanks a lot bakfed....

Last edited by sudhir18n on 23 Apr 2011, 21:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2011, 21:40
bakfed wrote:
Hi there, sudhir,

I can understand the frustration of applying to b-school as one of the many thousands of other applicants. However, the nature of the beast is that categorizing saves time (as bad as that sounds).

Truth is, there's no true way to categorize anyone. As anyone would argue, everybody is an individual. I am different from you; you are different from the guy living next door; and the guy living nex door is different from Justin Bieber. Everyone walks a different line and hums a different tune. So if that's the case, how does a school, such as Harvard, separate out 9000 such-individualized applicants? There's no true other way but to start categorizing/grouping applicants. When we have 9000 applicants applying to Harvard and let's just say that 2500 of those are Indians. There's no way that all 2500 will make it, correct? Of course (given the fact that the class if onliy about 900 people anyway). There has to be a way to "group" these 2500 people; therefore, almost a misnomer now - the Indian IT group. Why? Because AdComs have seen so many Indians, who were IT-driven, works in an IT or engineering field, and applying to b-school in 3 to 5 years. Are we saying that all of these 2500 applicant are Indian-IT? Of course not. But it's the mere fact that you'd have to beat out the other 2499 to secure a spot at Harvard makes it extremely difficult. What if there was only 3 Argentina CPAs applying to Harvard? Odds are the Argentinians have a better shot at getting into Harvard simply because of mere probabilities. There's no statistics given publicly to what doctors get on GMAT, or what CPAs get on GMAT, or Lawyers get on GMAT. Perhaps internally within a school that information is circulated, but it certainly is not made public. With that said, it all goes back to the fact that if there were 2500 Indians applying to Harvard and the average of that sample group (which is a fairly good size to indicate average and median) is 710, it becomes intrinsically harder for another Indian applicant to stand out in the crowd with a 610. I'm not saying that people with 610 shouldn't apply, but my point is that by categorizing each group it helps the AdComs to make a decision on who to get in. Afterall, since everyone's different, how would AdComs judge who gets to go in and who doesn't? Something has to give and it makes it easier (and a lot more sense) to divide the applicants up into different countries of origin, this way it gives the AdComs a realistic shot of how you fare against your own nationality, which may or may not have a different standards from the American schooling system. I hope this helps clear up a bit and while it is almost unfair to any reasonable mind, that's just the way it has to be until a better system comes along.

Going back to your profile, being NOT in the IT field makes you a bit specialized. However, with a 610 right now it's a long shot at Insead, IMD and LBS. With 670-680, you have a shot and if you're only wishing to go to these three schools, go for it! I have to take a guess that your preferential work location post-MBA is in Europe, and not in the states. If you do prefer to be in the states, rearrange these schools with some US b-schools.

Lastly, you just have to put yourself in the shoes of an admission personnel. Ask yourself "what you bring to the school in terms of knowledge and experience". This will not only help you write your essays later on, but it will also give you a general framework to how you're a specialized individual, such as those 3 Argentinian CPAs and not that 2500 Indian IT guys. I know that each and everyone is an individual and has individualized personality, and I'll stand my ground for anyone who says he/she is exactly like me (god, I hope not), but in the grand scheme of things, I had to prove it to b-school that I truly am different. If I were you, don't harp too much on your nationality and such, because those are just statistics and probabilities. Do the best you can on your application and you'll be treated as such when adcoms view your profile.

Disclaimer: all number used above are fabricated on the spot. Please don't hold me to it.


Thanks a lot Bakfed, Yes my preference post MBA is to work in SGP/HK or London, with SGP as top preference. In terms of schools; LBS, IMD and INSEAD( Top preference).
I have visited and worked in 24-28 countries around the world( almost whole of europe, US, NZ, AUS , ASIA and ME).
Will my 24 countries intl experience add significant advantage to my profile( for Insead) as I believe very very few people would have that experience and esp from a country that I come from.

Thanks
Sudhir
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2011, 15:41
HOLY CRAP!

I can't even count the number of countries I've been to (let alone work in, which will only be one) with one hand and you have that many!!! So of course, use that to your advantage in your application to make yourself stand out.

However, one thing that automatically pops into my mind is what you were doing in these many countries. If it was working, was your company sending you to so many different places or were you changing jobs every so often? You don't have to answer this but know that it's something you'll need to specifically point out in your application. It's like me saying to the AdComs that I had 12 jobs...well, firs thing that the adcoms will be thinking of is "why so many? can i not hold a job down for even 2 or 3 years?"

But yes, INSEAD tends to value these international experiece tremendously, so definitely use that to your advantage.
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2011, 21:39
bakfed wrote:
HOLY CRAP!

I can't even count the number of countries I've been to (let alone work in, which will only be one) with one hand and you have that many!!! So of course, use that to your advantage in your application to make yourself stand out.

However, one thing that automatically pops into my mind is what you were doing in these many countries. If it was working, was your company sending you to so many different places or were you changing jobs every so often? You don't have to answer this but know that it's something you'll need to specifically point out in your application. It's like me saying to the AdComs that I had 12 jobs...well, firs thing that the adcoms will be thinking of is "why so many? can i not hold a job down for even 2 or 3 years?"

But yes, INSEAD tends to value these international experiece tremendously, so definitely use that to your advantage.


Thanks Bakfed . All 24-28 trips were business trips from my previous 3 companies. So, its not that I have worked with 10-12 companies. All these trips were for Market Intelligence, Due Dilligence and Valuations.
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Re: Indian Applicant pool [#permalink] New post 25 Apr 2011, 07:25
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With that said, definitely use it to your advantage. Your knowledge of international business is going to help you stand out with INSEAD. Good luck on the GMAT and I hope you ace it this time!!!
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Re: Indian Applicant pool   [#permalink] 25 Apr 2011, 07:25
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