|
Author |
Message |
|
Intern
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 24
Followers: 0
Kudos [?]:
0
[0], given: 0
|
Indian Engineers: subtract 60+ pts for fair comparison? [#permalink]
 27 Apr 2006, 13:37
First some raw 2005 stats:
(obtained from http://www.gmac.com/gmac/VirtualLibrary ... 0%9305.htm)
Total Mean GMAT: 525
American Mean GMAT: 519
Indian Mean GMAT: 560
Chinese Mean GMAT: 589
Computer Science Mean GMAT: 571
Engineering Mean GMAT: 582
Now Analysis:
If you've taken statistics, you know how to compare things that have different distributions, example: which is more rare, 20 lb cat or 30 lb dog? you take the z score (difference from mean over std deviation) and compare those.
Lets make an assumption that std dev for gmat score remains somewhat the same between countries (since no data avail here), this means where u rank in ur group is purely based on the mean. So to compare an Indian from an American on how they rank in their own group, one would subtract 41 points. To compare an engineer to the total population, one would subtract 57 points.
If you are both Indian and an engineer, then to be compared to the general population, you would need to subtract 35 + 57 - X points, where X is unknown but less than 35.
Caveats:
The above assumes an Adcom will want to know how you rank within your demographic and compare in such a way. And it also assumes standard deviation is the same in all demographics which can't be true. But it gives an approximation.
By the above logic, my score of 780 (chinese and engineer) is probably comparable to a 700 in the general population. This is like saying, I am ranked among chinese engineers similarly to someone ranked in the general population with a 700 score.
This would have great impact on what someone's target score should be based on their demographic. And really lends a lot of weight to people making the claim 'you are overrepresented, you need to stand out in some other way'
Discuss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Manager
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 142
Schools: LBS (R1-Admit), Oxford (R1-Admit)
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
10
[0], given: 11
|
this sounds worse than affirmative action !
what if you are a MALE, INDIAN, IT (not just engineering) !! subtract another 100 ?
this is unfair 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Manager
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 98
Followers: 2
Kudos [?]:
5
[0], given: 0
|
seems an absurd assertion
|
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Manager
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 389
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
11
[0], given: 0
|
Well, it’s not very absurd observation, though statistically not correct… you can not apply generalization to specific group ! Averages given are generalized(or wide range), and what one need to know is relative distribution of a person in his demographic..
Let’s say 99% Chinese in range of 500 to 700 and only 90% Indian in range of 500 to 700, in this case though average of Chinese is higher, still you need higher score to enter in Indian demographic.
So correct comparison can be done only if we have application pool of each demographic with their GMAT distribution and acceptance rate..which you can not get from any school
Saying this about statistics, I do believe that as an Indian I belive, one should score higher than 700 because I see people with 750 all around in competition pool!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Director
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 579
Location: NYC
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
5
[0], given: 0
|
so much for being Indian eh?
_________________
Success is my only option, failure is not -- Eminem
|
|
|
|
|
|
Intern
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 24
Followers: 0
Kudos [?]:
0
[0], given: 0
|
chiragr wrote: Well, it’s not very absurd observation, though statistically not correct… you can not apply generalization to specific group ! Averages given are generalized(or wide range), and what one need to know is relative distribution of a person in his demographic..
Let’s say 99% Chinese in range of 500 to 700 and only 90% Indian in range of 500 to 700, in this case though average of Chinese is higher, still you need higher score to enter in Indian demographic.
So correct comparison can be done only if we have application pool of each demographic with their GMAT distribution and acceptance rate..which you can not get from any school
Saying this about statistics, I do believe that as an Indian I belive, one should score higher than 700 because I see people with 750 all around in competition pool!
I think you pretty much agree with me then. You are basically saying we don't know the standard deviation of each demographic group. Which I stated in the caveat section. But without that knowledge, we can pretty safely assume that degree of variation will be similar from group to group. Std dev will definitely be smaller for groups taht score higher simply because the score is capped at 800.
I wouldn't say the idea is statistically incorrect at all, it is a statistical approximation based on incomplete information, and if you see my calculations they have been pretty conservative to arrive at the 60 point mark.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Manager
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 137
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
0
[0], given: 0
|
Does anybody else see the irony here? A minority (in the general American population) is being negatively affected by affirmative action and diversity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Senior Manager
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 389
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
11
[0], given: 0
|
saturnring11 wrote: Does anybody else see the irony here? A minority (in the general American population) is being negatively affected by affirmative action and diversity.
irony! yes I guess
|
|
|
|
|
|
Intern
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 1
Followers: 0
Kudos [?]:
0
[0], given: 0
|
saturnring11 wrote: Does anybody else see the irony here? A minority (in the general American population) is being negatively affected by affirmative action and diversity.
Affirmative Action is for UNDER-REPRESENTED minorities.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Director
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 949
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
6
[0], given: 0
|
Is this true? Do indian IT/Engineering have a tougher time getting into US or European MBA/MS programs? I have just begun reading some of the application experiences. Some people have really impressive resumes/scores but end up waitlisted or rejected at schools that i would expect them to get into.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Director
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 588
Location: Munich,Germany
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
7
[0], given: 0
|
oh well, so much for being Indian. Its not uncommon for me to come across such discussions. They've been plenty of these discussions even in some of the other forums.
But in the end, I'm not sure how many Indians will make such a deep analysis before applying. I would rather put my efforts to make the best application.
Ps: I'm an Indian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Manager
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 199
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
0
[0], given: 0
|
joemama142000 wrote: Do indian IT/Engineering have a tougher time getting into US or European MBA/MS programs?
Just want to chime in here. Wording like this is scary - people can get the wrong idea very fast. When worded like that, it sounds almost discriminatory.
What's going on here is that B-Schools want to create a diverse student body. So you can assume that when applying, the comparison is weighted more heavily against others that have similar demographic profile as you, than against the entire applicant pool. In the case of Indian engineers, with an undergrad degree from IIT - that demographic has one of the highest mean GMAT scores amongst the other demographics. SO in order to make yourself "stand out" within that demographic, you either have to score higher than the rest of that demographic generally does on the GMAT, or have some other interesting aspect to your profile.
Make sense?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Director
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 928
Followers: 1
Kudos [?]:
9
[0], given: 0
|
how about indians who have done their undergrad and graduate abroad? do they come under the same criteria?
Its kind of scary.. because if the schools want diverse group of students, it gets harder for indians.. because there are just so many indians applying for mba with such high scores....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
close
