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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
 14 Aug 2008, 04:45
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IHateTheGMAT wrote: I also have to say that I think it's just plain absurd to act like there is no difference between a small city and a large city. I've lived in both and the differences (especially as it relates to dining and entertainment) are significant.
But to pretend they are the same by saying things like "doing essentially the same things that urbanites do with their friends - drink, eat and talk" doesn't make any sense to me. And neither does getting so bent out of shape about someone elses opinion. I don't think anyone in this thread made the claim in the first paragraph. Regarding the second, whether you're sitting in one of the world's top restaurants or your uncle's basement, I think most people can agree that the main point of spending time with friends is to enjoy their company regardless of the environment. That was the point of my statement.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:10
rca215 wrote: IHateTheGMAT wrote: I also have to say that I think it's just plain absurd to act like there is no difference between a small city and a large city. I've lived in both and the differences (especially as it relates to dining and entertainment) are significant.
But to pretend they are the same by saying things like "doing essentially the same things that urbanites do with their friends - drink, eat and talk" doesn't make any sense to me. And neither does getting so bent out of shape about someone elses opinion. I don't think anyone in this thread made the claim in the first paragraph. Regarding the second, whether you're sitting in one of the world's top restaurants or your uncle's basement, I think most people can agree that the main point of spending time with friends is to enjoy their company regardless of the environment. That was the point of my statement. Most people in the third world applying to the top B-Schools are enjoying food, drink, and conversations with their friends in their home countries. Why do you think they want to come to the United States? It's all the same isn't it? As long as you have food, drink, and conversations with friends?
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:15
Terp - are you equating a small town in Kansas with a third world country? lol
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:16
I think this topic is spiraling way off here....
Back to work-life balance. Can anyone shed some light on it's presence in the hedge fund and private equity world? I think we are all pretty familiar with IB/MC, but haven't heard a lot about the common (preferable) exit careers of former bankers and consultants (besides general management)...
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:16
terp06 wrote: rca215 wrote: IHateTheGMAT wrote: I also have to say that I think it's just plain absurd to act like there is no difference between a small city and a large city. I've lived in both and the differences (especially as it relates to dining and entertainment) are significant.
But to pretend they are the same by saying things like "doing essentially the same things that urbanites do with their friends - drink, eat and talk" doesn't make any sense to me. And neither does getting so bent out of shape about someone elses opinion. I don't think anyone in this thread made the claim in the first paragraph. Regarding the second, whether you're sitting in one of the world's top restaurants or your uncle's basement, I think most people can agree that the main point of spending time with friends is to enjoy their company regardless of the environment. That was the point of my statement. Most people in the third world applying to the top B-Schools are enjoying food, drink, and conversations with their friends in their home countries. Why do you think they want to come to the United States? It's all the same isn't it? As long as you have food, drink, and conversations with friends?  Did I claim that spending time with friends is the most important thing in the world? I think there are plenty of things that compel people to come to the United States, many of which are supremely more important than the relative trivialities that we are discussing.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:19
sam77sam7 wrote: I think this topic is spiraling way off here....
Back to work-life balance. Can anyone shed some light on it's presence in the hedge fund and private equity world? I think we are all pretty familiar with IB/MC, but haven't heard a lot about the common (preferable) exit careers of former bankers and consultants (besides general management)... HF - Generally 50/60 hours/week PE - Generally 60 hours/week at a smaller fund, 80 hours/week at a larger fund. A fair amount of travel is involved with PE, not so much with HF. Pay is largely based on performance and carried interest at the senior levels.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:20
sam77sam7 wrote: I think this topic is spiraling way off here....
Back to work-life balance. Can anyone shed some light on it's presence in the hedge fund and private equity world? I think we are all pretty familiar with IB/MC, but haven't heard a lot about the common (preferable) exit careers of former bankers and consultants (besides general management)... Not too sure about PE, but my HF friends worked a variety of hours. Some were fairly typical 60 hours/week, others worked every day of the week for 12+ hours and were always "on call", if you will. I'm not sure if this variability is typical.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:38
terp06 wrote: HF - Generally 50/60 hours/week
PE - Generally 60 hours/week at a smaller fund, 80 hours/week at a larger fund. A fair amount of travel is involved with PE, not so much with HF.
Pay is largely based on performance and carried interest at the senior levels. Considering I have met classmates and know some people who worked in the big 3 dream spots for some people (PE/VC/HF)...not one described it with close to these hours as being common. It seemed to be more in line with normal banking jobs, of 6+ days a week on average and 12 hour days are very common. Once again when you move up you may be able to leave early and take more vacations but its not going to be a 50 hour a week job when you graduate unless you are in some support job at one of these places. When people want to leave these jobs and thats why they came back to school it kind of indicates its not the greatest things in the world like everyone assumes. If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 07:54
riverripper wrote: terp06 wrote: HF - Generally 50/60 hours/week
PE - Generally 60 hours/week at a smaller fund, 80 hours/week at a larger fund. A fair amount of travel is involved with PE, not so much with HF.
Pay is largely based on performance and carried interest at the senior levels. Considering I have met classmates and know some people who worked in the big 3 dream spots for some people (PE/VC/HF)...not one described it with close to these hours as being common. It seemed to be more in line with normal banking jobs, of 6+ days a week on average and 12 hour days are very common. Once again when you move up you may be able to leave early and take more vacations but its not going to be a 50 hour a week job when you graduate unless you are in some support job at one of these places. When people want to leave these jobs and thats why they came back to school it kind of indicates its not the greatest things in the world like everyone assumes. If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5. I suppose 50 is shooting low for a HF post-MBA job. But 60 definitely sounds in-line. These guys generally work market hours and anything on top of that is just for research and strategizing (it's difficult, but certainly possible on occasion, depending on who you are, to stay up all night doing this). In general, hedge funds don't care whatsoever how many hours you work. There is no face-time culture like there is in banking. No one is going to bat an eye if you're an analyst and you're leaving before a so-called "Vice President". At the end of the day, at a HF, what matters is the money you've generated for the fund. Unless your friends were at a mega-fund (Blackstone/TPG/KKR/Carlyle/etc), I find it very difficult to believe that they regularly worked Saturdays at a PE shop. If so, I would find it even harder to believe that they worked more than 4-6 hours on said occasional Saturday. Different PE shops have different "face time" cultures, but the hours are definitely better than banking, as long as you're not at a mega fund. If you're at a mega fund, you can expect to work the same or more hours than banking and get paid silly amounts of money. Don't get me wrong, these fields are still a part of finance and there is definitely a culture of working hard. However, the whole "face time" culture of banking is lacking for the most part. It's all about results on the buy side, not hours. If you're a star, you can set up your own office in La Jolla and make the firm money from your poolside - no one gives a crap. Peli - feel free to chime in.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 09:33
riverripper wrote: If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5. Not as true as you'd think based on the people I've talked to who did S&T this summer. Also, to contribute: The following states suck. If you live in one of these states you have no future and no friends and your life consists of a meaningless existence. Alabama AL Montana MT Alaska AK Nebraska NE Arizona AZ Nevada NV Arkansas AR New Hampshire NH California CA New Jersey NJ Colorado CO New Mexico NM Connecticut CT New York NY Delaware DE North Carolina NC Florida FL North Dakota ND Georgia GA Ohio OH Hawaii HI Oklahoma OK Idaho ID Oregon OR Illinois IL Pennsylvania PA Indiana IN Rhode Island RI Iowa IA South Carolina SC Kansas KS South Dakota SD Kentucky KY Tennessee TN Louisiana LA Texas TX Maine ME Utah UT Maryland MD Vermont VT Massachusetts MA Virginia VA Michigan MI Washington WA Minnesota MN West Virginia WV Mississippi MS Wisconsin WI Missouri MO Wyoming WY Discuss.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 09:35
rhyme wrote: riverripper wrote: If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5. Not as true as you'd think based on the people I've talked to who did S&T this summer. Also, to contribute: Further explanation requested
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 09:41
riverripper wrote:
If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5.
HF people work similar hours to S&T people at banks. The work is very similar. Neither one will be 9-5, but 60 hours/week is in line. Trading and Investment Management is not for everyone. If you're not a quant jock or a superlative value investor, you're going to find it very difficult to succeed in either. Job and career decisions should not be based on hours worked.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 09:45
rhyme wrote: riverripper wrote: If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5. Not as true as you'd think based on the people I've talked to who did S&T this summer. Also, to contribute: The following states suck. If you live in one of these states you have no future and no friends and your life consists of a meaningless existence. Alabama AL Montana MT Alaska AK Nebraska NE Arizona AZ Nevada NV Arkansas AR New Hampshire NH California CA New Jersey NJ Colorado CO New Mexico NM Connecticut CT New York NY Delaware DE North Carolina NC Florida FL North Dakota ND Georgia GA Ohio OH Hawaii HI Oklahoma OK Idaho ID Oregon OR Illinois IL Pennsylvania PA Indiana IN Rhode Island RI Iowa IA South Carolina SC Kansas KS South Dakota SD Kentucky KY Tennessee TN Louisiana LA Texas TX Maine ME Utah UT Maryland MD Vermont VT Massachusetts MA Virginia VA Michigan MI Washington WA Minnesota MN West Virginia WV Mississippi MS Wisconsin WI Missouri MO Wyoming WY Discuss. Not true. People in Arkansas are known to have a lot of friends.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 09:52
terp06 wrote: rhyme wrote: riverripper wrote: If you want to make good money, work normal lower adds, and have a poker loving personality get into Trading. Usually you go home not too long after whatever market you are on closes. So you could make it home before your significant other if they work a 9-5. Not as true as you'd think based on the people I've talked to who did S&T this summer. Also, to contribute: The following states suck. If you live in one of these states you have no future and no friends and your life consists of a meaningless existence. Alabama AL Montana MT Alaska AK Nebraska NE Arizona AZ Nevada NV Arkansas AR New Hampshire NH California CA New Jersey NJ Colorado CO New Mexico NM Connecticut CT New York NY Delaware DE North Carolina NC Florida FL North Dakota ND Georgia GA Ohio OH Hawaii HI Oklahoma OK Idaho ID Oregon OR Illinois IL Pennsylvania PA Indiana IN Rhode Island RI Iowa IA South Carolina SC Kansas KS South Dakota SD Kentucky KY Tennessee TN Louisiana LA Texas TX Maine ME Utah UT Maryland MD Vermont VT Massachusetts MA Virginia VA Michigan MI Washington WA Minnesota MN West Virginia WV Mississippi MS Wisconsin WI Missouri MO Wyoming WY Discuss. Not true. People in Arkansas are known to have a lot of friends. Hogs don't count. /me ready for bashing.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 10:08
Another vote for shelving this discussion, the thread has outlived its usefulness.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 12:53
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What may seem as a good work-life balance for one person may be complete anarchy for someone else.
Almost everyone around here keeps on talking about IB and Hedge Fund work habits. I don't know if its lack of insight into other industries, or just that most people here are in banking jobs, but almost all professional jobs require more than 40 hours a week.
I work in the oil and gas industry. There were weeks when I worked a 100 hours a week. Yes, only sleeping about 3-4 hours a day. There were times when I worked straight through days and nights. But the for the most part, I average about 60 hours a week. I am also on call.
My brother in engineering commissioning, works 60-70 hours a week, and he too is on call all the time.
Other medical friends of mine put in 70 hours plus. They too are on call.
Honestly, I don't know of any hardworking professional who doesn't put in at least 60 hours a week. So why all this fuss about hedge fund guys and IBs working the longest and hardest and having the worst work-life balance?
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 13:27
sarzan wrote: What may seem as a good work-life balance for one person may be complete anarchy for someone else.
Almost everyone around here keeps on talking about IB and Hedge Fund work habits. I don't know if its lack of insight into other industries, or just that most people here are in banking jobs, but almost all professional jobs require more than 40 hours a week.
I work in the oil and gas industry. There were weeks when I worked a 100 hours a week. Yes, only sleeping about 3-4 hours a day. There were times when I worked straight through days and nights. But the for the most part, I average about 60 hours a week. I am also on call.
My brother in engineering commissioning, works 60-70 hours a week, and he too is on call all the time.
Other medical friends of mine put in 70 hours plus. They too are on call.
Honestly, I don't know of any hardworking professional who doesn't put in at least 60 hours a week. So why all this fuss about hedge fund guys and IBs working the longest and hardest and having the worst work-life balance? +1. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to make money, you either need to work very hard, you need to take big risks, or both.
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 16:08
sarzan wrote: Honestly, I don't know of any hardworking professional who doesn't put in at least 60 hours a week. So why all this fuss about hedge fund guys and IBs working the longest and hardest and having the worst work-life balance? My old boss probably works ~40 hrs per week (30 some weeks, 50 others) and pulls in just over $200K. I remember some days he came in at 8am and left by 11am. It's not uncommon in big pharma. RF
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 16:28
refurb wrote: sarzan wrote: Honestly, I don't know of any hardworking professional who doesn't put in at least 60 hours a week. So why all this fuss about hedge fund guys and IBs working the longest and hardest and having the worst work-life balance? My old boss probably works ~40 hrs per week (30 some weeks, 50 others) and pulls in just over $200K. I remember some days he came in at 8am and left by 11am. It's not uncommon in big pharma. RF Is this supposed to be impressive?
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance? [#permalink]
14 Aug 2008, 17:11
rhyme wrote: Not as true as you'd think based on the people I've talked to who did S&T this summer. Also, to contribute:
The following states suck. If you live in one of these states you have no future and no friends and your life consists of a meaningless existence.
Alabama AL Montana MT
Alaska AK Nebraska NE
Arizona AZ Nevada NV
Arkansas AR New Hampshire NH
California CA New Jersey NJ
Colorado CO New Mexico NM
Connecticut CT New York NY
Delaware DE North Carolina NC
Florida FL North Dakota ND
Georgia GA Ohio OH
Hawaii HI Oklahoma OK
Idaho ID Oregon OR
Illinois IL Pennsylvania PA
Indiana IN Rhode Island RI
Iowa IA South Carolina SC
Kansas KS South Dakota SD
Kentucky KY Tennessee TN
Louisiana LA Texas TX
Maine ME Utah UT
Maryland MD Vermont VT
Massachusetts MA Virginia VA
Michigan MI Washington WA
Minnesota MN West Virginia WV
Mississippi MS Wisconsin WI
Missouri MO Wyoming WY
Discuss. Oh no, my state is on there  
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Re: Info sake: Which MBA field has the best work-life balance?
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