I am a rates trader at one of the bulge bracket banks at an Asian Branch. This is my 2nd year and am planning to go back to school by sep 2011. Longer term goal is to work in France as a buyside trader, asset management or back again as a sell side trader.
The top schools in France are listed in the subject section. But was wondering which MBA programme would serve me better. Perhaps INSEAD or HEC-Paris.
INSEAD is ranked as top notch in the world but in France, many do not know about INSEAD while regarding HEC as the best business school...considering that I would like to work in France, would you reckon HEC and other schools to be a better option?
Anyone from the above schools, i would like to hear your opinions. If you went to one of the schoools and currently work as a buyside trader/ asset management or know people of so.
Hey zamzim - have you considered LBS for a finance focused MBA ? Or purely a MiF (depending on your timeframe). While it is not located in France, its close enough surely
Within France, you can't go wrong with INSEAD, which is a world class program. HEC Paris also gets some pretty high reps. I'm surprised about your comment that not many within France know about INSEAD. But, I suppose you've done your research about that already.
Have you also considered the visa aspects with your move to France ? I hear that the bureaucracy is just terrible to deal with.
Best.
zamzim wrote:
Hi,
I am a rates trader at one of the bulge bracket banks at an Asian Branch. This is my 2nd year and am planning to go back to school by sep 2011. Longer term goal is to work in France as a buyside trader, asset management or back again as a sell side trader.
The top schools in France are listed in the subject section. But was wondering which MBA programme would serve me better. Perhaps INSEAD or HEC-Paris.
INSEAD is ranked as top notch in the world but in France, many do not know about INSEAD while regarding HEC as the best business school...considering that I would like to work in France, would you reckon HEC and other schools to be a better option?
Anyone from the above schools, i would like to hear your opinions. If you went to one of the schoools and currently work as a buyside trader/ asset management or know people of so.
If you wish to work in France HEC Paris is much more established in French business world than INSEAD due to its 125 years tradition as a business school (approx. 80% of the CEOs in France are HEC grads). HEC is ranked number one business school in Europe 2006, 2007 and 2008 by FT ranking, but unfortunately went down in the MBA ranking.
With respect to the global MBA rankings INSEAD is apparently higher and much more well-known across the world. However, the two programmes are very different since INSEAD is 10 month with focus on strategy consulting whereas HEC Paris is 16 month with focus on Finance, Marketing and Entrepreneurship.
LBS is an excellent school with focus on Finance and number 1 in FT ranking, but HEC is probably the best option when you would like to work in France. However, PM me if you want more information about HEC or I can put you in touch with HEC staff...
Cheers,
Catgmat
zamzim wrote:
Hi,
I am a rates trader at one of the bulge bracket banks at an Asian Branch. This is my 2nd year and am planning to go back to school by sep 2011. Longer term goal is to work in France as a buyside trader, asset management or back again as a sell side trader.
The top schools in France are listed in the subject section. But was wondering which MBA programme would serve me better. Perhaps INSEAD or HEC-Paris.
INSEAD is ranked as top notch in the world but in France, many do not know about INSEAD while regarding HEC as the best business school...considering that I would like to work in France, would you reckon HEC and other schools to be a better option?
Anyone from the above schools, i would like to hear your opinions. If you went to one of the schoools and currently work as a buyside trader/ asset management or know people of so.
According to what you mention about HEC and employment in France, I really wonder whether Judge is a good card to play if I want to work in France. However, I'm very attracted by this school, and being Franch I'm seeking a real life experience (for instance with College life) a French school would difficulty give to me.
If you want to work in France there is no better school than HEC. The HEC brand gives you interview invites and the alumni network is super strong in France as well as UK. I can guarantee you that Judge or Said MBAs will be less well-known amongst recruiters in France. Maybe you should instead apply for LBS than Judge, since LBS network is very active in Paris as well.
Whereas I can understand your objections to going to a French B-school as a French, you could still apply for a dual degree with LSE, NYU or MIT or exchange to get the international flavour on your CV. However, most of the French in my batch do not want to leave campus, since career opportunities are too good here. Also note, it is much more difficult as a French to get into HEC than for internationals.
Regarding accademics I do not completely agree to your statement, since HEC faculty is super good in the English batch and since this year a chair for Real Estate and Energy was established in ccoperation with Morgan Stanley and Unibail-Rodamco. Also, HEC has a buddy programme for people who wish to stay in France and thus are connected to French MD and executives.
i'm applying to INSEAD for 2011 admission, but i read the discussion about HEC with great interest.
is it still difficult for international students to get financial jobs in paris as i heard from a fellow s'porean colleague (who did grad school there but couldn't get a job) that the recruiting is rather closed to foreigners either due to unions pressure or by law...
Interesting situation, I was in trading as well, but if you want to keep trading (buy-side or not) i'm wondering if maybe a msc finance is more suitable? I've worked on three different trading floors in asia and europe and have not met a single mba before.
To be more informed about the perception of French schools IN France itself, it is best, in my opinion, to look at the Statistique Sigem Classes Prepas data (google it, since i'm new for some reason this forum won't let me post urls). But if you look at the data, french students going through the grandes ecole route, the rankings would be: HEC>ESSEC>ESCP Europe.
How clear is this hierarchy? I'd say super clear. 99% of those accepted to all 3 schools chose HEC (only 1 chose ESSEC, with the other 285 choosing HEC instead). Between ESSEC and ESCP, 93% chose ESSEC over ESCP (only 14 chose ESCP, the other 189 chose ESSEC over ESCP). HEC clearly dominates ESSEC in terms of obtaining the top students, and ESSEC clearly dominates ESCP. But these 3, in terms of business, are probably the top 3 in France.
Someone here was surprised that HEC is stronger in France than INSEAD is. The reason why HEC has a stronger reputation in France than INSEAD is because INSEAD's main offering is the MBA, and in France, an MBA is pretty foreign. Executives in France don't typically hold MBA's. MBA's aren't how you prove yourself in France;instead, what separates you from the rest is the ability to attend a grandes ecoles, like HEC, ESSEC, ESCP (doesn't have to be a business grandes ecole, the others grandes ecoles are also very dominant in the business world, though they don't have many business courses, such as ENS, ENA, and ecole polytechnique). Once you go to a grandes ecoles, for life you are considered an elite of France. But the problem for us foreigners is that most of the course offerings by HEC is not a part of the grandes ecoles scheme. The MBA and most other masters offered in English by HEC is not a grande ecole program, though it is offered by the institution itself. So it seems that the grandes ecoles stream, the way to become an elite of French society, might not be so easily available to us foreigners. So i might wager that until the HEC MBA gets ranked better than INSEAD, HEC's reputation in France through its grandes ecoles program does not matter because the MBA program would not be associated with the programs offered to us foreigners anyway.
To be more informed about the perception of French schools IN France itself, it is best, in my opinion, to look at the Statistique Sigem Classes Prepas data (google it, since i'm new for some reason this forum won't let me post urls). But if you look at the data, french students going through the grandes ecole route, the rankings would be: HEC>ESSEC>ESCP Europe.
How clear is this hierarchy? I'd say super clear. 99% of those accepted to all 3 schools chose HEC (only 1 chose ESSEC, with the other 285 choosing HEC instead). Between ESSEC and ESCP, 93% chose ESSEC over ESCP (only 14 chose ESCP, the other 189 chose ESSEC over ESCP). HEC clearly dominates ESSEC in terms of obtaining the top students, and ESSEC clearly dominates ESCP. But these 3, in terms of business, are probably the top 3 in France.
Someone here was surprised that HEC is stronger in France than INSEAD is. The reason why HEC has a stronger reputation in France than INSEAD is because INSEAD's main offering is the MBA, and in France, an MBA is pretty foreign. Executives in France don't typically hold MBA's. MBA's aren't how you prove yourself in France;instead, what separates you from the rest is the ability to attend a grandes ecoles, like HEC, ESSEC, ESCP (doesn't have to be a business grandes ecole, the others grandes ecoles are also very dominant in the business world, though they don't have many business courses, such as ENS, ENA, and ecole polytechnique). Once you go to a grandes ecoles, for life you are considered an elite of France. But the problem for us foreigners is that most of the course offerings by HEC is not a part of the grandes ecoles scheme. The MBA and most other masters offered in English by HEC is not a grande ecole program, though it is offered by the institution itself. So it seems that the grandes ecoles stream, the way to become an elite of French society, might not be so easily available to us foreigners. So i might wager that until the HEC MBA gets ranked better than INSEAD, HEC's reputation in France through its grandes ecoles program does not matter because the MBA program would not be associated with the programs offered to us foreigners anyway.
Just my 2 cents
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