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Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A

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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2012, 07:45
CaliCpa wrote:
That makes sense. From what you have seen, and people you have talked to in the industry, is there value for those that want to do the banking--->hedge fund/PE route (do these funds value it)? I realize that portfolio managers for mutual funds tend to have it, but wasnt sure about buy side type funds such as hedge funds and PE.


I mean its hard for an extra credential to not have value. It absolutely does. The question is whether or not that value is commensurate with the time and energy investment that goes into obtaining the charter. This I'm not totally sure of. I'd imagine it would be more useful in a hedge fund context than a PE one, but ultimately for hedge funds I think it comes down to having good ideas in an interview. They usually will ask you to pitch them some ideas, and the strength of those ideas can outweigh quite a bit of everything else.

PE is really difficult to break into without being in a pretty specific path, ie 2 years IB analyst -> 2 years PE -> MBA. If you don't have IB and PE experience before business school, its difficult to break into PE. Heck, its difficult even with these credentials. These PE shops don't hire much, and they can take their pick of the best and brightest at HBS, GSB, Wharton, Booth, Columbia, etc, for maybe the 0-2 spots that they're hiring for this year, so its pretty tough. That said, I'm sure every year someone breaks in without prior banking or PE experience, but you'll have to bring something really interesting to the table and be extremely dogged in your recruiting effort.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2012, 08:31
Moss,

Thanks for the insight. Coming from corporate real estate advisory and brokerage services, I want to leverage my deal making and client experience to get into I banking post-MBA. I have been accepted to Booth and CBS and have been waitlisted at Wharton. Ultimately I would like to be in PE (either real estate or corporate PE). I'm wondering if you would recommend CBS over Booth b/c of its NYC connections? Or do you think that because I need to spend a few+ years in banking first (which would be in NYC) then hopefully make the transition to PE, if school location really doesn't matter. Most current and past MBAs have told me to go where I fit better and more align with the school's program, culture, etc. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2012, 11:20
jdlange01 wrote:
Moss,

Thanks for the insight. Coming from corporate real estate advisory and brokerage services, I want to leverage my deal making and client experience to get into I banking post-MBA. I have been accepted to Booth and CBS and have been waitlisted at Wharton. Ultimately I would like to be in PE (either real estate or corporate PE). I'm wondering if you would recommend CBS over Booth b/c of its NYC connections? Or do you think that because I need to spend a few+ years in banking first (which would be in NYC) then hopefully make the transition to PE, if school location really doesn't matter. Most current and past MBAs have told me to go where I fit better and more align with the school's program, culture, etc. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.


First off congrats on the acceptances man! Looks like you're in great shape regardless of how things ultimately shake out.

As far as PE recruiting knows, I don't know it nearly as well as IB recruiting, so much of what I know is through discussions with my many classmates and peers have been doing and not through first hand experience. What I can tell you for sure is that PE recruiting happens mostly off-campus and that few if any (I can't think of even one) actually do on-campus recruiting and events like the banks do. So ultimately your success in PE recruiting is your ability to leverage your network of personal connections, the alumni network, and 1st/2nd year students to lock up internships and full-time offers.

I'm sure there are probably more PE shops in the NYC area than in Chicago, but if you're able to travel out to NYC on a semi-frequent basis this different probably won't matter too much. What would be more important is your ability to network and obviously what you bring to the table. If you look at CBS vs. Booth 2011 FT Employment Reports, CBS put 5.7% of its people into PE/VC and Booth put 5% into PE/VC -- basically the same rate. I'm guessing this has been reasonably consistent over time. If you had a strong preference for a specific region, that would probably help (I'm guessing that, for smaller firms in NYC, Columbia does better and for smaller firms in Chicago that Booth does better), but otherwise its probably a bit of a wash and your past experience, existing network, and most importantly your ability to out-work the competition have more of an impact than Booth vs. CBS in a vacuum.


As far as having some banking experience before going into PE, I think most people will tell you that by the time you get to the MBA level that ship has essentially already sailed. Usually at the MBA level people want you to have not only already received some IB analyst experience, but also some PE experience before making the jump. That said, it is certainly possible for someone to jump into PE after time as an associate or even jump straight there with no banking background at all -- its just far less common and even more difficult than the already challenging road is. Plenty of my classmates were bankers and did PE before and they're still having trouble in this economy. Its just tough, plain and simple.

If I were you, I'd connect with the officers of some of the industry-specific clubs at each school and ask them some questions to see how things are going this year. Definitely go to some of the admitted student events as well. CBS just had Columbia Connect I last week, but CC2 will be in April -- I'd check it out if you want to get a decent feel for what your incoming class will be like. I met a decent number of my current friends at the admitted student events last year.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2012, 15:08
Appreciate the feedback.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2012, 08:06
Thanks man! :)
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2012, 18:03
Moss, do you have any opinion about ibanking recruiting in NYU vs MIT? Trying to decide which school would be a better fit since I am trying to go into investment banking post-MBA.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 08 Mar 2012, 13:15
Pelihu's guide to recruiting and schmoozing is very helpful for those looking to go into Investment Banking: guide-to-recruiting-and-schmoozing-part-58003.html
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 28 Mar 2012, 11:22
Moss,

I have offers from Emory & UNC obviously both are outside of the top 10 MBA programs. 2 questions 1)Do you see a marked difference in recruiting from top 20 vs top 10 and 2) do you see a marked difference in Emory vs UNC IB recruiting.

Lastly would banks send non-top 10 candidates to smaller offices say in Charlotte or elsewhere?

Thanks

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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 28 Mar 2012, 12:58
Qwill wrote:
Moss,

I have offers from Emory & UNC obviously both are outside of the top 10 MBA programs. 2 questions 1)Do you see a marked difference in recruiting from top 20 vs top 10 and 2) do you see a marked difference in Emory vs UNC IB recruiting.

Lastly would banks send non-top 10 candidates to smaller offices say in Charlotte or elsewhere?

Thanks

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There is definitely a difference between top 10 and top 20 schools. I would estimate the top finance programs may send 5-10 people into the major banks each, the numbers for non-top 10 programs are going to be around <5 or so at each of the major banks (with outlier programs and outlier years for every program). Further, you may not get as many touch points as other schools and may have to network your way into events.

Basically its going to be tougher. You probably knew this -- I mean it should be obvious that its easier to get a banking job from HBS/Wharton than it is from University of Phoenix Online, and every school in between lays somewhere on this spectrum.

I would reach out to the banking club presidents at each school and chat with them about how the recruiting process works. I'd ask the following questions:

1) How many students went to banks this summer and full time, the #s that went to each bank, and the offices they were at (CLT, NYC, etc)
2) The names of the firms that held events on-campus and how many events they held
3) The names of the firms that held on-campus interviews

Once you see the breakdown for each school, it should greatly inform your decision. Ultimately, your biggest edge is when banks come to you -- it makes the networking and recruiting process a lot easier and also signals that they're serious about hiring from your school. The banking club presidents should be a great resource to help you get a feel for which school has the best recruiting process.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 21:17
Another quick question... Getting into banking seems to definitely rely heavily on networking - Have you seen MBAs leverage their undergrad institution that have a top MBA program even if they didn't go to that MBA program. For instance if I attended Duke ug then went to Ross MBA - would it be ludicrous for me to contact a Fuqua alum and expect a response?
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 21:32
Qwill wrote:
Another quick question... Getting into banking seems to definitely rely heavily on networking - Have you seen MBAs leverage their undergrad institution that have a top MBA program even if they didn't go to that MBA program. For instance if I attended Duke ug then went to Ross MBA - would it be ludicrous for me to contact a Fuqua alum and expect a response?


It wouldn't be ludicrous at all. That said, if the bank you're looking at has a recruiting team, ultimately the buck stops with them. They're the ones tasked with everything related to recruiting at your school, and they actually might get annoyed if someone from another recruiting team starts messing with their business. There can sometimes be a bit of friendly rivalry to get the most numbers from one's alma mater, so having the "competition" give you "friendly pointers" people could prove annoying.

Not saying this is always the case or that this type of territoriality is even the norm, but I actually did hear a story of someone getting on the bad side of their school's recruiting team by focusing on some connections he had at the bank who were on another team at the expense of his home team. So unless your ugrad contacts have some serious firepower at bank, your efforts are probably best applied to connecting with members of your school's recruiting team and/or the groups you're looking to join (if the bank has group-specific hiring).

That said, if there isn't a structured recruiting program for your school or the bank just doesn't recruit there, all bets are off. Use any and all ways to network your way in, including MBA and undergrad networks alike. That's why I think it pays to find out what banks recruit on campus early on so that for those who don't do structured OCR you can start your networking blitz early. Those are going to be the programs where being scrappy and staying on the grind will pay off.

Keep me posted on your decision!
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2012, 01:11
Great advice! Thanks for making this Q&A. I think it will be helpful for many aspiring bankers
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2012, 18:49
Hi Moss,

Thanks for the initiating the thread and sharing your insights! I noticed you mentioned taking advantage of TTS workshops on campus; my question is would you recommend getting TTS courses outside of the free(?) campus workshops? I am a student about to begin a top 10 program for class 2014 and would also greatly appreciate any advice on how you think I can use the summer to prep for recruiting.

Thanks a lot
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2012, 06:50
Moss,

Now that you've presumably actually started your internship, how has the actual job compared relative to what your expectations were going into the whole process?
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2012, 18:20
Thanks Moss! Hope you are enjoying your new summer position.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 15 Sep 2012, 17:43
Great information on this thread. Would be great to get your experience on how your internship went and how your second year is going when you get a moment to update.

I am interested in a MBA program to get into the investment banking field; however, I wanted to ask, are most of the individuals breaking into the investment banking fields have business/finance related UG degrees? When I review the employment reports of many top 10 programs, it seems that most entering classes are 30-50% business/finance related backgrounds and there is a less percentage of individuals breaking into investment banking.

My question, is there a correlation between a business/finance UG degree and experience individuals filling majority of the investment banking positions post MBA or are non-business/finance UG and experience individuals such as engineering background individuals have the same opportunities?

Thank you,
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 15 Sep 2012, 18:23
Moss wrote:
Hey guys, I'd like to check in after my first semester at Columbia Business School and answer any questions you may have on recruiting for investment banking. I'll be interning as a Summer Associate at a bank this summer, and learned quite a bit about the process. Here are some general items and then I'll open things up for Q&A:

  • Start reading the Wall St. Journal, Dealbook, FT, Dealbreaker, The Economist, The Deal or all of the above now. You'll want to have a good understanding of the deal landscape before recruiting starts
  • Take advantage of any of the Training The Street workshops held on campus. There is a lot discussed in TTS that they don't cover in class that you really have to know
  • Hustle, hustle, hustle!!! You really do have to go to every single event, and then do as many informational interviews as you can possibly set up
  • Stay humble. Don't be a dick in networking circles, don't pester people too much, and remember that its usually easier to stand out for the wrong reasons than the right ones
  • Seriously, stay humble. Cast a wide net for the banks you target! The people who were successful were the ones that recruited at not just top BBs, but all bulges, boutiques, middle-market banks, and others like Wells/BMO/RBC, etc. Its a tough market out there, but if you pull on enough strings, you'll be successful
  • Let your personality come through. You'll be working 100-hour weeks with these people, so they want someone who they can stand to be around
  • Practice, practice, practice. Work on your pitch constantly. Get coaching. Have people look over your resume. Give each other mock informationals. Come prepared to the informationals you get with plenty of questions and interesting things to talk about. Learn the banks inside and out. Practice is what you do before game time to position yourself best for victory -- so practice!
  • Know what the job is. Understand what an investment bank does, what an associate does, what a sell side/buy side process looks like, and what qualities make a good associate.
  • Come interview time, take it to the next level and crush it. Practice your tail off, do mocks all day every day, and prepare for anything and everything.

I'll probably add to this, so ask questions and I'll deliver some responses!


Hi,

Its nice to find someone from CBS. I would like to ask few things such as:-
1) Approximately what percent of Finance students make into Investment management?
2) As per you, where CBS stands against NYU, Booth, Harvard as far as finance is concerned?
3) What does CBS look in an application? Work-ex, GMAT Score?
4) How much value does CFA charter add to CBS passout?
5) As per you which is BEST college for finance from 3 perspective - Quality of faculty, Placement in Finance Field, Brand Name during placement & after placement.

I highly appreciate for your efforts, in advance.

Waiting for your reply.
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 05 Oct 2012, 22:54
well done man !!!
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Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A [#permalink] New post 10 Oct 2012, 07:49
fameatop wrote:
Hi,

Its nice to find someone from CBS. I would like to ask few things such as:-
1) Approximately what percent of Finance students make into Investment management?
2) As per you, where CBS stands against NYU, Booth, Harvard as far as finance is concerned?
3) What does CBS look in an application? Work-ex, GMAT Score?
4) How much value does CFA charter add to CBS passout?
5) As per you which is BEST college for finance from 3 perspective - Quality of faculty, Placement in Finance Field, Brand Name during placement & after placement.

I highly appreciate for your efforts, in advance.

Waiting for your reply.


1 - 2) Just check out our employment report
3) Just check out the BW survey w/ 80-20 GMAT split for a good guide
4) I think the charter has helped me both get into CBS and with recruiting. Not sure how to quantify how much, nor if the ROI is worth it relative to cost ($ & time) of getting it.
5) idk man CBS? Check out the rankings and stuff... I've only taken classes at CBS so I can't really say if our classes our better or worse than anyone else's.

If you have a banking-related question, please ask away.
Re: Investment Banking Recruiting - Q&A   [#permalink] 10 Oct 2012, 07:49
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