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Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever

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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 11:21
I think it is a very controversial debate because in these times there is going to be heavy bias towards the "buy american" concept.

If you were to automatically obtain legal status by getting an mba then the application process would have to be modified, you're not only applying for entrance into a school - you're applying for a work permit (all in one).

Why are people from developing countries thinking about getting away all the time? why not get educated and then go back to your country to maybe contribute to the advancement of your people. Besides, where do you think the value of a top MBA is going to be greater? in manhattan or in a poor country where good ideas are desperately needed to help everyone get ahead?

Disc: I plan on going against the brain drain by becoming valuable and then moving to south america in order to help where its most needed
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 11:52
This is very much Grassley's gig. He is loving this, and is a mastermind when it comes to protectionism.

That guy is about to cost me probably $5000. Not that I wouldn't have spent it anyway.

CNBC is surprisingly reasoned on this. Not that it matters for anything.

It is a pretty controversial debate because it is completely contrary to the whole American policy. It is a stunning asymmetry, and it is like the US is a kid who takes the ball home when he is losing. It is so blind sighted it is unreal. Now the world shouldn't employ the best person, they should employ anyone who fits x demographic, but the best in that. The comparable situations of such behavior are miserable, but if anyone did this to the US, Grassley would lose his shit about it as well.

cdnaudit - people come from different backgrounds with different goals and different ways of getting there. The working class want to move forward, achieve and make progress in their life. The kids of the wealthy get all social / non-profit / giving back, because their life has afforded them that luxury. Rash generalization, but as soon as you give to the fact that other people may have different objectives in life, see things differently, have different experiences and want different things, it should immediately follow that this isn't an issue. People should be free to do what they wish.

I mean, have you ever considered how long it takes to pay back $80k in rupees? I can introduce you to five people who recently had jobs at Investment Banks taken away from them purely due to US policy. I am sure they can give you a very lengthy explanation. They planned to go back in five or so years. Now, they are in the position where to find equivalent ability to pay their loans, they need to be earning 10m rupees per annum. If you can find them these opportunities, I am sure they will be very happy to hear from you.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 12:25
ok, I agree with you. It does sound racist (what they're trying to implement) and it is unfair.

My rant goes against the whole idea of moving to the states to live after getting higher education. Doesn't it make more sense to let the country that made you who you are benefit from whatever you have to offer?

I don't agree that the children of the wealthy are the only ones who get all charitable. I myself come from a low middle class latin american family and worked my way up to a top undergrad business school (where I am now), I don't have a lifesyle that would *afford* me the chance of getting all cute and going 100% into social enterprise. However, my main goal is not by any means to create a non profit if I do move back 'home'. It is to go there, work my way up in whatever industry I decide to go into and then give back to the community.

I guess what I'm saying is that moving to north america is not the only way to 'get ahead', I'm sure there are some great opportunities for fresh hard working MBAs in developing economies too.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 13:40
cdnaudit wrote:
ok, I agree with you. It does sound racist (what they're trying to implement) and it is unfair.

My rant goes against the whole idea of moving to the states to live after getting higher education. Doesn't it make more sense to let the country that made you who you are benefit from whatever you have to offer?

I don't agree that the children of the wealthy are the only ones who get all charitable. I myself come from a low middle class latin american family and worked my way up to a top undergrad business school (where I am now), I don't have a lifesyle that would *afford* me the chance of getting all cute and going 100% into social enterprise. However, my main goal is not by any means to create a non profit if I do move back 'home'. It is to go there, work my way up in whatever industry I decide to go into and then give back to the community.

I guess what I'm saying is that moving to north america is not the only way to 'get ahead', I'm sure there are some great opportunities for fresh hard working MBAs in developing economies too.


Well - I don't know about Venezuela and South America - but in India getting into the elite b-schools is just brutally competitive. Mind you - this is just the domestic competition. 99.9th percentile cutoff in the entrance exam is just impossible to achieve - yet students do it and get into IIMs and so far have shaped up some of the flourishing businesses in the country. So in India, it's just the competition that forces students to look elsewhere for a good business education. Even for the so-called international 1 year programs in India, competition is again brutal.

I'm sorry to say this but your rant about working in the US after studying is completely baseless. The cost of an american business education makes it impossible to go back to the home country and work, unless you are from the first world, and there are students who do that. In the developing world, the salaries don't match the cost and you'll have to work forever to pay off your loans.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 14:32
Jerz wrote:
The two go hand in hand. You can't be recruited to work in a country where you don't have legal work authorization.

I remember hearing about a UK program a few years ago where if you had an MBA from a top school (as they defined it) and spoke English, you automatically qualified for a UK work permit. I wouldn't mind seeing a similar program in the US that made it much easier for highly skilled workers to work in the US.


They do something similar already for the H1-B visas.

Quote:
Separate from the cap, however, there are 20,000 special cap exemptions available to people with U.S. masters' degrees or higher.


That would make a lot of sense actually. You've got highly skilled workers in the US right now. Why not keep them here.

Unfortunately, when the economy goes south, anti-immigration sentiment only increases.

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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 14:35
pbanavara wrote:
Yes precisely, the legal work authorization should be granted based on the education one obtains in the host country and not require an employer to separately sponsor such an employee.


The only problem with that is that you end up with a lot of under employed professionals.

Canada has a "point system". You qualify based on education, language skills, etc. You don't need a employer to sponsor you.

Canada has a lot of foreign engineers, doctors and skilled professionals doing menial jobs because they can't find employment.

I actually think the US system is better because the immigrant is guaranteed employment when they arrive.

The US just needs to revamp the green card process and increase the H1-B quotas.

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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 14:40
cdnaudit wrote:
Why are people from developing countries thinking about getting away all the time? why not get educated and then go back to your country to maybe contribute to the advancement of your people. Besides, where do you think the value of a top MBA is going to be greater? in manhattan or in a poor country where good ideas are desperately needed to help everyone get ahead?


Holy crap. They want to come to America because that is where the opportunities are.

I was reading an article about biotech start-ups. It is SO much easier to get venture capital in the US vs. Europe it's not even funny.

The people who get into top MBA programs are mostly people with high expectations of themselves. Would you rather work in the US for a start-up like Google or go back home and argue with the local bureaucrat about the size of the bribe you need to pay to make sure your business will get electrical service in the next month?

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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 14:50
AlexMBAApply wrote:
Moreover, "immigration reform" ends up lumping two sides of the spectrum -- illegal immigration/migrant workers and professional/skilled workers under the same umbrella of "immigration reform" -- which ends up being a political instrument that elected officials will use to stoke the fires of populism.


As usual, nice analysis Alex.

The part I quoted is very true. I know when I was trying to get my green card (which took 4.5 years BTW), a number of bills came before congress to increase the employment-based permanent resident quota. Each time it was defeated because amnesty for illegal aliens was included in the bill.

The reason I said "I don't want to throw gasoline on the fire" is because I've been in the same situation as many of you internationals. During the 4.5 years of the green card process I couldn't leave my current employer. I was locked in. To add to the misery, I had no idea on how long it would take, many immigrants had waited 7, 8 or 9 years for their green card. I turned down job offers that I knew would offer better opportunities because I didn't want to jeopardize the green card process.

In the end I almost left the US for the UK because I was sick of living my life just to get a green card. I'm thankful that I didn't because the green card came only a month after my decision to stick it out.

All I can say is weigh your options carefully, try not to get discouraged and just live your life, in the US or not.

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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2009, 14:52
I don't think the H1-B process itself is that bad - it could be improved for certain. For one, most companies want to apply for you H1-B before you get your MBA, so the separate pool put aside for graduates of Masters programs is, in effect, circumvented.

The issue is that the current American Workers legislation is truly blocking the right people, who recruited against American alternative for the same salary and same job, from being recruited. I am one of them, so I am not very objective about this as I am now looking for a job for the second time as a result. I am not Indian, and do not have the same issue with salary discrepancy should I want to go back to my homeland, but I have a number of friends who are in exactly the same position who are. For me, my girlfriend is American, and for the two of us it makes more sense to live here, and we would prefer to. Now I have to find work again, and - understandably - this is a real annoyance and pain for my career. What is worse is that the companies using the TARP clause are making absolutely zero effort to relocate people in their global franchise, and it is actually working as a clause instigating job destruction.

The current situation has already been material for a huge article in the Times of India. The momentum on all this is only just starting, and the Business School Deans are active on it. It is definitely a topic to watch.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever   [#permalink] 06 Mar 2009, 14:52
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