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John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club

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John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 20:28
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John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT

A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club.

B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.

C. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.

D. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.

E. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 02 Apr 2013, 09:47
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rajatr wrote:
John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT
A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club.
B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
C. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.
D. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.
E. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.

Quote:
Hi Mike, I appreciate that option A strengthens the argument in most cases. But i am unable to understand how come option B weakens the argument. As per me option B has no effect. Can you kindly resolve my query. Waiting eagerly for your reply.
Regards, Fame

Fame,
I will simply focus on (B). I will say, this is a very well-written question --- not a surprise from MGMAT! --- and it's a very difficult question. I think it's reasonably clear that (C) & (D) & (E) are weakeners, and I think (B) is the answer choice that makes this a very challenging question. Without careful reading, it's hard to see why this is not irrelevant.

Notice, the prompt was careful to specify ---- "In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen ..."
The evidence in this argument is entirely based on John's observations --- there's no objective source of information other than what John saw. Furthermore, all these observations were made in the early morning hours, presumably before the work day begins. John is vastly generalizing from what he sees at only one specific time of day.

Now, let's consider what (B) says.
Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
Suppose these biological facts are true, and suppose the Apex users are well-acquainted with them. If fat-burning aerobics work best after 8+ hours of fasting, when would be the ideal time of day for someone with typical hours to do this? Early in the morning, right after waking up --- presumably, the exerciser wouldn't have eaten since dinner the night before, so that's more than 8+ hr. In fact, for most people, that's the only 8+ hour gap between meals in their day. Therefore, all the aerobic folks would have to show up at the crack of dawn, when John sees them.
By contrast, the weightlifting muscle-mass folks need to exercise 3-4 hours after a pre-training meal. Well, no one has their pre-training meal at 3 am! These folks would probably show up at the gym to do muscle-mass work either in the late afternoon (3-4 hours after lunch) or at night (3-4 hours after an early dinner). They would never show up at the gym at the crack of dawn, and therefore John would never see them.
This weakens John's argument. John is essentially saying --- everybody does aerobics and nobody weight-lifts. Well, that's very much true of the early morning crowd, the only slice of the population he sees, but it's not certainly not true of the other time-slots in the day when John is not in attendance. There are plenty of weight-lifters, just at other times of day that John doesn't see.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2013, 08:28
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mikemcgarry wrote:
rajatr wrote:
John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT
A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club.
B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
C. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.
D. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.
E. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.

Quote:
Hi Mike, I appreciate that option A strengthens the argument in most cases. But i am unable to understand how come option B weakens the argument. As per me option B has no effect. Can you kindly resolve my query. Waiting eagerly for your reply.
Regards, Fame

Fame,
I will simply focus on (B). I will say, this is a very well-written question --- not a surprise from MGMAT! --- and it's a very difficult question. I think it's reasonably clear that (C) & (D) & (E) are weakeners, and I think (B) is the answer choice that makes this a very challenging question. Without careful reading, it's hard to see why this is not irrelevant.

Notice, the prompt was careful to specify ---- "In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen ..."
The evidence in this argument is entirely based on John's observations --- there's no objective source of information other than what John saw. Furthermore, all these observations were made in the early morning hours, presumably before the work day begins. John is vastly generalizing from what he sees at only one specific time of day.

Now, let's consider what (B) says.
Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
Suppose these biological facts are true, and suppose the Apex users are well-acquainted with them. If fat-burning aerobics work best after 8+ hours of fasting, when would be the ideal time of day for someone with typical hours to do this? Early in the morning, right after waking up --- presumably, the exerciser wouldn't have eaten since dinner the night before, so that's more than 8+ hr. In fact, for most people, that's the only 8+ hour gap between meals in their day. Therefore, all the aerobic folks would have to show up at the crack of dawn, when John sees them.
By contrast, the weightlifting muscle-mass folks need to exercise 3-4 hours after a pre-training meal. Well, no one has their pre-training meal at 3 am! These folks would probably show up at the gym to do muscle-mass work either in the late afternoon (3-4 hours after lunch) or at night (3-4 hours after an early dinner). They would never show up at the gym at the crack of dawn, and therefore John would never see them.
This weakens John's argument. John is essentially saying --- everybody does aerobics and nobody weight-lifts. Well, that's very much true of the early morning crowd, the only slice of the population he sees, but it's not certainly not true of the other time-slots in the day when John is not in attendance. There are plenty of weight-lifters, just at other times of day that John doesn't see.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)


Very nice explanation. Thanks a lot.
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2013, 06:05
A should be the answer. We are asked to choose the answer which does not weaken, that is, any answer which strengthens or does not weaken is correct answer.

John observed that most people at Apex Health Club uses aerobic exercises machines instead of weight-training equipment. And, hence, he concluded that people are more likely to burn fat instead of increasing muscle mass. And again he concluded that since people do not like to increase muscle mass they do not consume the Blown's product, which helps to gain muscle mass. so, the advertisement at outside the Health Club, which is aimed to attract the members of the Health Club, is of no use since members are not inclined to increase muscle mass.

Choice A tells us that most club members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms have higher qualities aerobic machines, and although they come to the Apex Club. But the members are coming to club in early morning hours and not in work hours. And since they do not like to gain muscle mass, the advertisement is ill-conceived.

Please provide another explanation as this has taken 5 minutes.
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2013, 22:02
A & B seem to be likely answers, I disregarded A because of the following reason

A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those
at the club. Although Club members work in nearby buildings with better quality aerobic exercise machines but they still come to the club may be for aerobics or may be for mass training, this fact Weakens the argument as Blown's plan to advertise might still be a good idea

B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal
3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting. This statement neither strengthens nor weakens the argument

IMO B seems like a better option as it neither weakens or strengthens the argument. Anyone cares to comment.
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 14 Apr 2013, 02:42
Very good Question and Very nice explanation Mike....Thanks
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 15 Apr 2013, 09:11
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ranjeet75 wrote:
Very nice explanation. Thanks a lot.

vmdce129907 wrote:
Very good Question and Very nice explanation Mike....Thanks

You are both quite welcome.
Mike :-)
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 17 Jun 2013, 15:17
Subject: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club

mikemcgarry wrote:
rajatr wrote:
John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT
A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club.
B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
C. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.
D. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.
E. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.

Quote:
Hi Mike, I appreciate that option A strengthens the argument in most cases. But i am unable to understand how come option B weakens the argument. As per me option B has no effect. Can you kindly resolve my query. Waiting eagerly for your reply.
Regards, Fame

Fame,
I will simply focus on (B). I will say, this is a very well-written question --- not a surprise from MGMAT! --- and it's a very difficult question. I think it's reasonably clear that (C) & (D) & (E) are weakeners, and I think (B) is the answer choice that makes this a very challenging question. Without careful reading, it's hard to see why this is not irrelevant.

Notice, the prompt was careful to specify ---- "In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen ..."
The evidence in this argument is entirely based on John's observations --- there's no objective source of information other than what John saw. Furthermore, all these observations were made in the early morning hours, presumably before the work day begins. John is vastly generalizing from what he sees at only one specific time of day.

Now, let's consider what (B) says.
Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
Suppose these biological facts are true, and suppose the Apex users are well-acquainted with them. If fat-burning aerobics work best after 8+ hours of fasting, when would be the ideal time of day for someone with typical hours to do this? Early in the morning, right after waking up --- presumably, the exerciser wouldn't have eaten since dinner the night before, so that's more than 8+ hr. In fact, for most people, that's the only 8+ hour gap between meals in their day. Therefore, all the aerobic folks would have to show up at the crack of dawn, when John sees them.
By contrast, the weightlifting muscle-mass folks need to exercise 3-4 hours after a pre-training meal. Well, no one has their pre-training meal at 3 am! These folks would probably show up at the gym to do muscle-mass work either in the late afternoon (3-4 hours after lunch) or at night (3-4 hours after an early dinner). They would never show up at the gym at the crack of dawn, and therefore John would never see them.
This weakens John's argument. John is essentially saying --- everybody does aerobics and nobody weight-lifts. Well, that's very much true of the early morning crowd, the only slice of the population he sees, but it's not certainly not true of the other time-slots in the day when John is not in attendance. There are plenty of weight-lifters, just at other times of day that John doesn't see.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)




hi Mike,
can you please explain what is wrong in option E.
as it is not mentioned in stimulus that 'the blown' only makes supplements only for mass gain ...(it is mentioned that they are best known).
may be they advertise their other products which are designed to help people burn fat.

Br//SuryaV
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 17 Jun 2013, 16:00
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suryav wrote:
hi Mike,
can you please explain what is wrong in option E.
as it is not mentioned in stimulus that 'the blown' only makes supplements only for mass gain ...(it is mentioned that they are best known).
may be they advertise their other products which are designed to help people burn fat.

Br//SuryaV

Dear Suryav,
John sees people doing aerobic exercise at the gym to lose body fat. He says that Blown's advertisements at the gym are ill-conceived, but if (E) is true, if Blown recently started to make "fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers", then all those people John already sees at the gym will start using it, and the ads are a good idea, despite what John says.
Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 09 Jul 2013, 14:45
rajatr wrote:
John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT

A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those
at the club.

B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal
3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.

c. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.

d. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.

e. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.


HERE IS OE

(1) Identify the Question Type
The "weakens" and "if true" language indicate that this is a Weaken question. The word "EXCEPT" indicates that four answer choices will weaken the conclusion and the fifth answer (the "odd one out") will be the correct answer. This "odd one out" answer might strengthen the conclusion or it might not affect the conclusion at all, but it will not weaken the conclusion.

(2) Deconstruct the Argument
In his regular visits to Apex Health Club, which have occurred primarily or exclusively in the early-morning hours, John has observed that almost all members present use only the fat-burning aerobic exercise machines, and not the weight-training equipment to build muscle mass. Since the Blown company is best known for supplements aimed at people trying to build muscle mass, John concludes that placing advertisements just outside of Apex Health Club is not a good plan.

(3) State the Goal
To weaken John's argument, we need reasons why it would still make sense for Blown to advertise at the health club, despite John's observations. It would help to understand the assumptions in John's reasoning. He's assuming that those members he sees are representative of the general membership of the club at all hours. He's assuming that those who see the advertisements outside the club will be the same people he sees inside the club during early-morning hours. He's also assuming that the products advertised will be those for which Blown is "best known" (supplements for people who want to build muscle mass) and which do not seem to be of value to the members John is observing inside the club (people who want to burn fat).

Any answer choice that attacks one of these assumptions would weaken the argument.

(4) Work from Wrong to Right

(A) CORRECT. If higher-quality aerobic exercise machines are available elsewhere to most members, then one would expect to see a lower proportion of Apex members using aerobic equipment (and a correspondingly higher proportion using some other type of equipment, including weight-training equipment). If anything, then, this statement actually strengthens John's argument.

(B) John has made his observations early in the morning, when it is much less likely that many exercisers will have eaten a meal three to four hours beforehand (since most of them would have been sleeping). As a result, very few members of the club will be able to derive a benefit from weight training at that hour. If members are generally aware of these facts, then it is likely that the lack of members using the weight-training equipment stems from the time of day at which John made his observations, rather than from the overall demographics of the club's members. This choice has weakened John's assumption that the members he has observed are representative of all of the members and all activities at various other times of day.

(C) If this statement is true, then members of the club may be in a position to spread the word about Blown's products to potential customers, even if they are not interested in using the products themselves. In this case, Blown's advertising strategy might be effective, weakening John's conclusion.

(D) If this statement is true, then, while walking past the entrance to the health club, the customers of the store will be exposed to Blown's advertisements, thus enabling the company to promote its products to a group that is interested in building muscle mass.

(E) John assumes that Blown's advertisements will promote Blown's best-known products. If Blown is producing a new line of products aimed at aerobic exercisers, and the advertisements focus on those products, then the placement of the ads might be effective, weakening John's conclusion.
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 19 Feb 2014, 21:17
mikemcgarry wrote:
Fame,
I will simply focus on (B). I will say, this is a very well-written question --- not a surprise from MGMAT! --- and it's a very difficult question. I think it's reasonably clear that (C) & (D) & (E) are weakeners, and I think (B) is the answer choice that makes this a very challenging question. Without careful reading, it's hard to see why this is not irrelevant.

Notice, the prompt was careful to specify ---- "In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen ..."
The evidence in this argument is entirely based on John's observations --- there's no objective source of information other than what John saw. Furthermore, all these observations were made in the early morning hours, presumably before the work day begins. John is vastly generalizing from what he sees at only one specific time of day.

Now, let's consider what (B) says.
Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
Suppose these biological facts are true, and suppose the Apex users are well-acquainted with them. If fat-burning aerobics work best after 8+ hours of fasting, when would be the ideal time of day for someone with typical hours to do this? Early in the morning, right after waking up --- presumably, the exerciser wouldn't have eaten since dinner the night before, so that's more than 8+ hr. In fact, for most people, that's the only 8+ hour gap between meals in their day. Therefore, all the aerobic folks would have to show up at the crack of dawn, when John sees them.
By contrast, the weightlifting muscle-mass folks need to exercise 3-4 hours after a pre-training meal. Well, no one has their pre-training meal at 3 am! These folks would probably show up at the gym to do muscle-mass work either in the late afternoon (3-4 hours after lunch) or at night (3-4 hours after an early dinner). They would never show up at the gym at the crack of dawn, and therefore John would never see them.
This weakens John's argument. John is essentially saying --- everybody does aerobics and nobody weight-lifts. Well, that's very much true of the early morning crowd, the only slice of the population he sees, but it's not certainly not true of the other time-slots in the day when John is not in attendance. There are plenty of weight-lifters, just at other times of day that John doesn't see.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)


Mike,
I have a question.
From the stimuli we find that John sees "almost no one using the weight-training equipment" in the " early-morning hours".
From the OA we see that most of the club members have access to better "aerobic exercise machines ".
What I have infered from these two is:
Since, most members have access to better aerobic exercise machines , one would expect to see a lower proportion of Apex members using aerobic equipment (and a correspondingly higher proportion using some other type of equipment, including weight-training equipment).
[Just like the OE]

Now, John argues that " Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived".
However, from the OE are we not deriving that more people are expected to use weight-training equipment? And, doesn't this derivation exaclty weaken John's argument?
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 20 Feb 2014, 08:08
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A

The main difficulty of a "WEAKEN the ARGUMENT EXCEPT" question is the wording of this question. Most people immediately look for an answer that strengthens the argument even though a choice that neither weakens nor strengthens the argument would also be correct.

The second difficulty is determining the SUBJECT of the argument. The argument itself is clear, that the marketing in front of the gym is a bad idea. But what is the subject of the argument? That is not explicit. When you think about it, the subject of the argument is the potential buying behavior of people that see the advertising, Apex members and people in the neighborhood.

The argument - Blows marketing efforts in front of Apex are ineffective and a bad idea.

Choices C,D, and E clearly show that the advertising will, in some way reach the buyers they want. So it is actually a good idea and it weakens the argument.

Choice A - I think is correct. It doesn't weaken or strengthen the argument.

Choice B -once you remember the importance of the time component in the beginning (always easy to overlook)it becomes clear that it is unlikely that John would see much if any people doing weight training since it is ineffective at early morning ( unless they are like Rocky and wake up at 4 in the morning do train!). thus this explains that John's perspective is not comprehensive and that Blown's actions might not have been so ill conceived after all. Thus this also weakens Johns argument.

Sidenote: When choosing between the final two choices, always pick the one whose subject is more clearly the subject of the argument ( potential buying behavior of Blown's product by Apex members).


John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT

A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those
at the club.

B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal
3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.

c. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.

d. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.

e. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.
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Last edited by clearmountain on 20 Feb 2014, 11:47, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 20 Feb 2014, 10:01
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sgangs wrote:
Mike,
I have a question.
From the stimuli we find that John sees "almost no one using the weight-training equipment" in the " early-morning hours".
From the OA we see that most of the club members have access to better "aerobic exercise machines ".
What I have infered from these two is:
Since, most members have access to better aerobic exercise machines , one would expect to see a lower proportion of Apex members using aerobic equipment (and a correspondingly higher proportion using some other type of equipment, including weight-training equipment).
[Just like the OE]

Now, John argues that " Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived".
However, from the OE are we not deriving that more people are expected to use weight-training equipment? And, doesn't this derivation exaclty weaken John's argument?

Dear sgangs,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, you are having trouble with the difference between evidence and inference/argument. The prompt says: John sees lots of people using the aerobic machines. That's true. That's a factual observation. Most people use the aerobic machines at this gym. That's evidence. In GMAT CR, never question the evidence. We have to assume that the evidence is true, unless we are specifically given some reason to question it.

Now, OA says: "Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club." Admittedly, this is a little puzzling. If these folks have access to higher quality aerobic machines, why are they using the aerobic machines at the gym? We don't know the answer to that, and we could speculate, but it doesn't change the fact, the non-negotiable fact: John sees most of the people in the gym using the aerobic machines.

You see, you are assume that, because you can't make logical sense of a piece of evidence, it must be false. You can't do that on GMAT CR. You can't question the evidence. If somebody sees something, then we have to assume that this is true. It may be we don't have a good explanation for why they are seeing that, but if they are seeing it, we must accept it as 100% true.

Does this distinction make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 20 Feb 2014, 15:37
Thanks to both Clearmountain & Mike. Well Mike that was great. Yeah, Powerscore CR Bible also mentions the same. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2014, 02:44
Option A is not weakening the argument at all.The premise of the argument Is that people come to burn fat and not build muscles at the AHC.
The conclusion is that Blown Co shouldn't advertise muscle-building dietary supplements.
Option A merely states that members have better aerobic exercise equipment in their office buildings than that available at the gym.This doesn't weaken the argument in any way.

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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2014, 03:12
AKG1593 wrote:
Option A is not weakening the argument at all.The premise of the argument Is that people come to burn fat and not build muscles at the AHC.
The conclusion is that Blown Co shouldn't advertise muscle-building dietary supplements.
Option A merely states that members have better aerobic exercise equipment in their office buildings than that available at the gym.This doesn't weaken the argument in any way.

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AKG1593, going a little further, cant we say that since they have better aerobic exercise equipments available, they do not come to the gym to use these equipments. Instead, they use some others (which might include muscle-buidling equipments). However, that would contradict the premise. Thus, we need to accept that the members have better access to aerobic equipments, ye tthey come to gym to use the same.

Point out if I'm wrong nah?
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2014, 10:40
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sgangs wrote:
AKG1593 wrote:
Option A is not weakening the argument at all.The premise of the argument Is that people come to burn fat and not build muscles at the AHC.
The conclusion is that Blown Co shouldn't advertise muscle-building dietary supplements.
Option A merely states that members have better aerobic exercise equipment in their office buildings than that available at the gym.This doesn't weaken the argument in any way.

Posted from my mobile device Image


AKG1593, going a little further, cant we say that since they have better aerobic exercise equipments available, they do not come to the gym to use these equipments. Instead, they use some others (which might include muscle-buidling equipments). However, that would contradict the premise. Thus, we need to accept that the members have better access to aerobic equipments, ye tthey come to gym to use the same.

Point out if I'm wrong nah?

Dear sgangs,
Precisely. That's what's so brilliant about this question. Choices (B) - (E) are valid weakeners. Choice (A) is not a weakener --- it's a paradox! It's something that, at least on the surface, doesn't make sense. We have absolutely no idea why these members would come to the gym to use the aerobic equipment there when they clearly have access to better aerobic equipment elsewhere. At least on the surface, it makes their behavior seem illogical. Nevertheless, illogical or not, that's what they're doing: the premise makes clear they come to the gym to use the aerobic equipment. Choice (A) leaves us with a lot of questions, but it doesn't attack the argument itself. That's what's so brilliant. A weakener is a very specific thing, and (A), while it creates confusion in other areas, does not fulfill the very specific role of a weakener. It may weaken our overall understanding of the situation, but it doesn't very specifically weaken the argument, and that is the very specific job of a GMAT CR weakener.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 09 Jul 2014, 11:03
John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT---So should not weaken..great

A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club.
-What da f..!!!..Just move ahead
B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
They are not avoiding weight because they are not intereseted but because they know it is ineffective right now and thus should focus on other better suited exercises..Weakens..Reject
C. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.
So they can influence the other potential customer...so again the hoarding is not a waste
D. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.
Again the hoarding is not a waste investment
E. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.
So the potential customers are visiting the gym..so hoarding is useful now..weakens
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 10 Jul 2014, 00:36
mikemcgarry wrote:
rajatr wrote:
John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen almost no one using the weight-training equipment designed to help increase muscle mass. Almost everyone uses only aerobic exercise machines, which are designed to help people burn fat. The Blown company is best known for dietary supplement products aimed at people trying to gain muscle mass, so Blown's plan to advertise just outside of the entrance to Apex Health Club is ill-conceived.

Each of the following, if true, weakens John's argument EXCEPT
A. Most of Apex Health Club's members work in nearby buildings whose exercise rooms contain aerobic exercise machines of higher quality than those at the club.
B. Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
C. Many members of Apex Health Club who do not train with weights share a household with people who are trying to increase muscle mass.
D. Customers of a nearby store that specializes in weight-training equipment must walk past the entrance of Apex Health Club to enter the store.
E. Blown has recently begun to produce fat-burning products aimed at aerobic exercisers.

Quote:
Hi Mike, I appreciate that option A strengthens the argument in most cases. But i am unable to understand how come option B weakens the argument. As per me option B has no effect. Can you kindly resolve my query. Waiting eagerly for your reply.
Regards, Fame

Fame,
I will simply focus on (B). I will say, this is a very well-written question --- not a surprise from MGMAT! --- and it's a very difficult question. I think it's reasonably clear that (C) & (D) & (E) are weakeners, and I think (B) is the answer choice that makes this a very challenging question. Without careful reading, it's hard to see why this is not irrelevant.

Notice, the prompt was careful to specify ---- "In several months of going to the Apex Health Club almost every day in the early-morning hours, I have seen ..."
The evidence in this argument is entirely based on John's observations --- there's no objective source of information other than what John saw. Furthermore, all these observations were made in the early morning hours, presumably before the work day begins. John is vastly generalizing from what he sees at only one specific time of day.

Now, let's consider what (B) says.
Most members of Apex Health Club are aware that weight training is generally ineffective for individuals who have not consumed a pre-training meal 3 to 4 hours beforehand, while fat-burning exercise is most effective after eight or more hours of fasting.
Suppose these biological facts are true, and suppose the Apex users are well-acquainted with them. If fat-burning aerobics work best after 8+ hours of fasting, when would be the ideal time of day for someone with typical hours to do this? Early in the morning, right after waking up --- presumably, the exerciser wouldn't have eaten since dinner the night before, so that's more than 8+ hr. In fact, for most people, that's the only 8+ hour gap between meals in their day. Therefore, all the aerobic folks would have to show up at the crack of dawn, when John sees them.
By contrast, the weightlifting muscle-mass folks need to exercise 3-4 hours after a pre-training meal. Well, no one has their pre-training meal at 3 am! These folks would probably show up at the gym to do muscle-mass work either in the late afternoon (3-4 hours after lunch) or at night (3-4 hours after an early dinner). They would never show up at the gym at the crack of dawn, and therefore John would never see them.
This weakens John's argument. John is essentially saying --- everybody does aerobics and nobody weight-lifts. Well, that's very much true of the early morning crowd, the only slice of the population he sees, but it's not certainly not true of the other time-slots in the day when John is not in attendance. There are plenty of weight-lifters, just at other times of day that John doesn't see.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)


If not MBA, GMAT preparation will surely make me Hecule Poirot / Sherlock Holmes :D..

Mike I did not think on such a depth . Out of A and B I selected A by PoE as it was talking about something which was not at all making any relevance to the assumption. The reason I disregarded B was that nowhere it is mentioned that Blown will advertise only during morning hours ( normally advertising say by hoarding or boards is a full day job). If not anything B indicates about the timings when those desirous of increasing their mass can come.

Am I over simplifying ?
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club [#permalink] New post 10 Jul 2014, 14:00
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himanshujovi wrote:
If not MBA, GMAT preparation will surely make me Hecule Poirot / Sherlock Holmes :D..

Mike I did not think on such a depth . Out of A and B I selected A by PoE as it was talking about something which was not at all making any relevance to the assumption. The reason I disregarded B was that nowhere it is mentioned that Blown will advertise only during morning hours ( normally advertising say by hoarding or boards is a full day job). If not anything B indicates about the timings when those desirous of increasing their mass can come.

Am I over simplifying ?

Dear Himanshujovi,
I'm happy to respond. :-) In some sense, the very point of GMAT CR is to develop a Sherlock Holmes kind of mind. You can't successfully approach GMAT CR by skimming along the surface of things. You have to think about the deep contextual consequences of each statement.

Think about the situation. Blown does NOT advertise only in the morning. Presumably, they simply buy a billboard or sign or something, and that sign is visible to all who come to the gym, 24 hours a day. The crucial issue is: when do different people come to the gym? Choice (B) is subtle --- we have to think about it a little, but it reveals who comes to the gym when, and why John's perspective might be skewed on this issue.

John is going only in the mornings, so he only sees the folks who work out in the morning. If that's a biased sample, then his conclusion is called into question. Choice (B), by suggesting when different folks come to the gym, directly implies that John's sample is bias.

You absolutely have to think about contextual implications of the statements. GMAT CR is all about the real-life context of the situation presented in the prompt.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: John: In several months of going to the Apex Health Club   [#permalink] 10 Jul 2014, 14:00
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