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Joseph Brant

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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2012, 09:15
nusmavrik wrote:
Lets discuss ! After you get the answer please explain what's wrong with the others.

Is "as with" idiomatically correct here? If so, why?

Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds; born into an Iroquois community and instructed in traditional Iroquois ways, he also received an education from English-speaking teachers.
(A) Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds;
(B) Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worlds, Joseph Brant was
(C) Like many another of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant, living in two worlds, was
(D) As with many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worlds, Joseph Brant was
(E) As with many another of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds;

Clearly A, all other options violate the basic rules of sentence formation
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 26 Apr 2012, 11:01
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Hi All,
Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds; born into an Iroquois community and instructed in traditional Iroquois ways, he also received an education from English-speaking teachers.

Image

This sentence presents comparison. The entities that have been compared in this sentence are “many other leaders” and “Joseph Brant”. Per the comparison rule, “like” must be followed a “noun” and “as” must be followed by a “clause”.

Giving a break to the sentence solution, I would discuss a little bit about the usage of “like” and “as” in comparison sentences. Let’s take these examples.
1. Tina dances like her sister.
2. Tina dances as her sister does.
Structure wise, both these sentences are correct. In sentence 1, “like” is followed by noun “sister” and in sentence 2, “as” is followed by clause “her sister does”. If you examine the sentence closely, you will see that there is no difference in the meaning of the both the sentences. Hence, when used correctly for comparison, sentences with “like” and “as” have almost the same meaning. Again on closer examination, you will notice that in both the sentences, Tina has been compared to her sister because she “dances” like her. The similarity is in the manner of dancing, an action. Hence, “like” can compare both “noun” and “actions” but “like” is ALWAYS followed by a NOUN, and never be a clause.

Coming back to the error analysis, the sentence presents the correct comparison between Brant and the other leaders of his generation. Also, semicolon has been correctly used to join two independent sentences. The sentence written after the semicolon perfectly stands on its own. The sentence begins with two verb-ed modifiers “born” and “instructed” that correctly modify the subject of the main clause “he”. And, from the first sentence (before the semicolon) we know that “he” refers to “Joseph Brant”. This sentence is correct as is.

POE

Choice A: Correct for the reasons stated above.

Choice B: Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worlds, Joseph Brant was. Incorrect. The verb-ibg modifier “living” is written between two commas. This makes it ambiguous that who it should refer to – many other leaders lived in two worlds or Joseph Brant lived in two worlds. This ambiguity makes this choice incorrect.

Choice C: Like many another of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant, living in two worlds, was. Incorrect. “many another” is a wrong phrase to use here. Again, verb-ing modifier “living” is preceded by a comma. This means that it should modify the preceding clause. But there is no clause before it.

Choice D: As with many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worlds, Joseph Brant was. Incorrect. This choice repeats the same error of verb-ing modifier “living” as in choice B. Also, in comparison “as” must be followed by a clause. Here “as” is followed a prepositional phrase and not a clause.

Choice E: As with many another of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds: Incorrect. This choice repeats the same “as” error as in choice D and the “many another” phrase error as in choice C.

Image

1. In comparison sentences, "like" must be followed by "noun" and "as" must be followed by "clause".
2. Modifiers must clearly modify the entity that are meant to modify

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 27 Apr 2012, 20:38
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seekmba wrote:
I did not like option A for the below reasons. Can someone please comment on where I am wrong in my understanding

(1) Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant, - with 'Like' the comparison should be done only with 'Joseph Brant'. But the sentnece has 'Joseph Brant lived in two worlds'

So the correct structure will be:

(2) As many others of his generation of Native American leaders did, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds


Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds; born into an Iroquois community and instructed in traditional Iroquois ways, he also received an education from English-speaking teachers.

(A) Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds;


Like can also imply In a manner similar to
So the first sentence implies:
In a manner similar to many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 27 Apr 2012, 21:06
Went between A and E chose A because of Like
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 28 Apr 2012, 21:05
Lets discuss ! After you get the answer please explain what's wrong with the others.

Is "as with" idiomatically correct here? If so, why?

Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds; born into an Iroquois community and instructed in traditional Iroquois ways, he also received an education from English-speaking teachers.
(A) Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds; right
(B) Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worldsmodifies native american leaders, Joseph Brant was
(C) Like many another of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant, living in two worlds, was should not be made into a separate independent clause
(D) As with many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worlds,modifies leaders Joseph Brant was
(E) As with many another of his generation of Native American leaders, Joseph Brant lived in two worlds;unsure but maybe like should be used in this sentence
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 29 Apr 2012, 23:59
think As with is comparing things not noun, but like compares noun that implies "similar to", so definitely like since comparing "Joseph" to "many other leaders..."

here the ";" separate two ICs. One that does the comparison, one explain the comparison "born into..... modifies, what's after"
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 05 Jul 2012, 06:54
nusmavrik wrote:
Awesome ! Thanks the OA is A.

As pointed out in this post B and D have modifier issue. "living in two worlds" starts modifying the "Native American leaders".

Among A, C and E. The unidiomatic usage eliminates C and E. "many another" is wrong

:-D
vinay.kaipra wrote:
According to me,
Among B and D the only difference is usage of "Like" and "As with". Now "like" should be used to compare people or things or nouns. Here we are not comparing the people rather we are comparing a clause of "people living in two different worlds". Hence it should be "As with".
I would go with D.
Please let us know the OA and explanation for the same.


Isnt living in two worlds, modifies the whole clause? ... isnt it following ,+verbing rule?
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 05 Jul 2012, 07:36
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pavanpuneet wrote:
Isnt living in two worlds, modifies the whole clause? ... isnt it following ,+verbing rule?


Hi there,

A verb-ing modifier modifies the preceding clause when it is placed after a clause and is preceded by a comma. However, in choice D, “As with many others of his generation of Native American leaders,” is not a clause. There is no verb in this phrase. In this case, the verb-ing modifier will modify the preceding noun entity “many others of his generation of Native American leaders”. I don’t say just “Native American leaders” because it is part of the big noun phrase starting with “many” and the prepositional phrases cannot be placed anywhere in the sentence.

Take for example this sentence from OG 12#21

Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are now drawing solid conclusions about how the human brain grows and how babies acquire language.

Here, “having amassed…” is a verb-ing modifier that is preceded by a comma but is placed only after a noun entity. In this case, it correctly modifies the preceding noun entity “neuroscientists”.
So we must pay heed to the placement of the verb-ing modifier. We must check whether the verb-ing modifier is placed after a clause or just a phrase. Accordingly, we must ascertain the function of the verb-ing.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 03 Aug 2012, 21:19
Hi shradha,

In option B
we have this :

Like many others of his generation of Native American leaders, living in two worlds, Joseph Brant was

so here living in two worlds is a verb ing modifer and as per your explanations there is an ambiguity that which part it would refer to
leaders or Joseph brant

But my clarification is that
verb ing modifier can be of two types

1) XXXX, verb- ing modifier
2) XXXX verb inf modifier.

Which category would living in two worlds fall into and also please tell me how would it modify based on each category
Thanks
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 22 Sep 2012, 15:55
This question is not good. Though I choose A, A is not grammatical.
A contains 2 clauses which are not conected.
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 26 Sep 2012, 01:36
vinay.kaipra wrote:
According to me,

A and E cannot fit in, since ";" should separate 2 sentences which can stay alone. Here second part cannot stay alone.
C looks fine. But, "Like many another" seems awkward.
Among B and D the only difference is usage of "Like" and "As with". Now "like" should be used to compare people or things or nouns. Here we are not comparing the people rather we are comparing a clause of "people living in two different worlds". Hence it should be "As with".
I would go with D.
Please let us know the OA and explanation for the same.



D can not be the answer. It has modification error.
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 03 Oct 2013, 09:40
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Re: Joseph Brant [#permalink] New post 03 Oct 2013, 09:41
Bichhang wrote:
i chose a but i can not explain why b is out. can u help me

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B has Incorrect Modifier.
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Re: Joseph Brant   [#permalink] 03 Oct 2013, 09:41
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