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Just throwing this out there, but...

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Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 17:47
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer? Does that mean many int'l students won't be able to attend? Do they open more spots for domestic students this year? I'm just curious to get everyone's cause/effect predictions. What do you guys think will happen? What will be the impact on applicants and admissions? Would you guys apply somewhere else outside the US as a safe school in case this scenario does play out?

Thanks guys.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 18:30
I was kinda of curious about this and half-way tempted to ask the associate director at Kellogg, but I figured it wasn't appropriate.

It seems that B-schools would be less likely to admit international students unless they could prove that they could self fund themselves. Perhaps some schools like Stanford or Harvard will admit regardless. But I think schools with less endowment would not take a risk. What if 20% of the class couldn't afford to pay tuition, then they couldn't pay professors. I think MBA programs are cash cows for business schools. They want high ranking to attract more students, so they can have more money to attract best professors. Then the best professors will result in high ranking. Its cyclic.

My prediction is that schools will want some sort of evidence of funding before an offer is extended to international students.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 18:52
On a Sloan web-talk thing (can't remember the word), the adcom present said that it will not affect admissions decisions.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 19:15
jb32 wrote:
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer? Does that mean many int'l students won't be able to attend? Do they open more spots for domestic students this year? I'm just curious to get everyone's cause/effect predictions. What do you guys think will happen? What will be the impact on applicants and admissions? Would you guys apply somewhere else outside the US as a safe school in case this scenario does play out?

Thanks guys.



I cannot speak for all International students but those from India should not have a problem.A lot of banks will provide student loans.Infact I got one for my Masters.My Dad was the co-signer.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 20:15
jb32 wrote:
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer?


Average GMAT scores would fall off a cliff.

I am pretty sure that there will be some company move in to the space. MBAs are pretty good credits medium and long-term.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 20:42
The problem is really two-fold. Credit markets are difficult and Congress cut the margin a company could make on student loans (College Cost Reduction Act). Most companies said the heck with it, it's not worth it.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 21:28
Most of the top schools have a massive endowment to be able to handle such temporary fluctuations.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 22:05
Well, I can bring here my own international perspective :wink:

Some people will have problems, especially those in "deep" developing countries, but, some can still find other fund sources. At the GSB for instance, I know some people who could get scholarships, and loans from other institutions. Nevertheless, if the credit environment tight even more, then things can get very hard. I was planing to take a loan in the second year, and I don't know how I will do it - and if I will - and I know many other internationals trying to figure out what to do, many of them signed contracts in their countries: Mexicans with Mexican Banks, Brazilian with Brazilian Banks and I've heard about People from Hong Kong doing the same.

I'm really not sure if this will change the number of offers to internationals, my guess is that it won't. It's easy to see that it's a long term trend the increase of internationals in almost all Top schools is the US, and many schools - GSB included - are expanding overseas.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 22:06
Tarmac wrote:
Most of the top schools have a massive endowment to be able to handle such temporary fluctuations.


Hehehe, "nice" that you brought that up, but think about Harvard's $30bi, with markets 40-50% down. Well they still can handle things, but... That happened with almost all top school, top fund, top wealth...

I know that many schools are already changing things preparing for the worse.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 22:26
jb32 wrote:
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer? Does that mean many int'l students won't be able to attend? Do they open more spots for domestic students this year? I'm just curious to get everyone's cause/effect predictions. What do you guys think will happen? What will be the impact on applicants and admissions? Would you guys apply somewhere else outside the US as a safe school in case this scenario does play out?

Thanks guys.


This seems to come up in every school presentation I attend.

The answer is always that they rely on having strong international students to make the environment of their schools stronger. We have received advice to look at local funding while the schools try to resolve this in the USA.

My guess - if no bank picks up where Citiassist left off, international students will have to show evidence of ability to fund the degree.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2008, 22:51
fall09 wrote:
jb32 wrote:
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer? Does that mean many int'l students won't be able to attend? Do they open more spots for domestic students this year? I'm just curious to get everyone's cause/effect predictions. What do you guys think will happen? What will be the impact on applicants and admissions? Would you guys apply somewhere else outside the US as a safe school in case this scenario does play out?

Thanks guys.



I cannot speak for all International students but those from India should not have a problem.A lot of banks will provide student loans.Infact I got one for my Masters.My Dad was the co-signer.


Am surprised, but interested in this. My sense was that most Indian banks don't lend over INR 2-3 million or $40-60K. The recent depreciation in the Indian (and similar) currency by over 20% doesn't help :)

Could you please explain who can be a co-signer?

At least for the next several months, we might have to wait and do with understandably general messages from schools that are "committed to diversity", "speaking to MBA leadership" or engaging at the highest levels"
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 31 Oct 2008, 11:16
collegesenior wrote:
fall09 wrote:
jb32 wrote:
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer? Does that mean many int'l students won't be able to attend? Do they open more spots for domestic students this year? I'm just curious to get everyone's cause/effect predictions. What do you guys think will happen? What will be the impact on applicants and admissions? Would you guys apply somewhere else outside the US as a safe school in case this scenario does play out?

Thanks guys.



I cannot speak for all International students but those from India should not have a problem.A lot of banks will provide student loans.Infact I got one for my Masters.My Dad was the co-signer.


Am surprised, but interested in this. My sense was that most Indian banks don't lend over INR 2-3 million or $40-60K. The recent depreciation in the Indian (and similar) currency by over 20% doesn't help :)

Could you please explain who can be a co-signer?

At least for the next several months, we might have to wait and do with understandably general messages from schools that are "committed to diversity", "speaking to MBA leadership" or engaging at the highest levels"


From what I know the maximum amount you can borrow from an Indian bank is Rs 15 Lakh, and that requires collateral.
I've heard HSBC offers a higher amount, if you have collateral equal to the amount of the loan - but at an exorbitant rate of interest.

jb32 wrote:
For post 400 I wanted to get everyone's thoughts, and this isn't meant to get the international applicants worried or up in arms.

What happens if US business schools can't find loans for international applicants without a co-signer? Does that mean many int'l students won't be able to attend? Do they open more spots for domestic students this year? I'm just curious to get everyone's cause/effect predictions. What do you guys think will happen? What will be the impact on applicants and admissions? Would you guys apply somewhere else outside the US as a safe school in case this scenario does play out?

Thanks guys.


There are only few schools in the US which offer loans to international students without a cosigner or US credit history.
Some examples (until recently): HBS Stan Wharton Kellogg Chicago Ross Duke Darden UNC Emory.

A lot of schools did not offer guaranteed loans even when the economy was better (eg: Tepper).

The situation is not very rosy in Europe either. Most top schools don't offer loans to cover entire cost of attendance. Cambridge-Judge I think is one of the few which does. INSEAD and Oxford don't. IESE offers loan for tuition only and LBS offers a maximum of GBP 50,000 for the entire program.

PS: This is probably a big reason why the Indian School of Business, Hyderabad received applications in tonnes (And why their avg GMAT is over the roof). Guaranteed Loan. No F1 VISA needed. Almost guaranteed job. No H1-B VISA lottery tension. :-)

PPS: This probably doesn't make any sense to the American folks out there, but I had to rant somewhere. :P
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 31 Oct 2008, 16:50
Interesting from the Duke newsletter:

Quote:
Loan Availability for International Students
Historically, The Duke MBA has offered an international student loan program (The Expanded MBA Loan) that did not require a U.S. cosigner. This loan is currently available for students in the 2008 - 2009 academic year. However, given the current financial market situation, we are uncertain as to our ability to offer this loan in the future to incoming international students. The entire Fuqua community recognizes and understands the importance of this loan, and we are exploring all potential funding avenues. We will utilize our Web site and this newsletter to update prospective students as to the status of this loan program. International students will still have the option of applying for loans with a U.S. cosigner.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 31 Oct 2008, 21:00
News about International Student Loans
Date: October 30, 2008

There's been great uncertainty out there about international student loans so we are extremely pleased to be able to make this announcement:

International students at HBS will continue to have access to need-based loans without needing to find a US co-signer.

While at this time we do not have further details about specific loan programs with private lenders, we are able to make this important - and reassuring - statement about continued accessibility.

All students - both international and US citizens - will continue to be eligible for Harvard Business School fellowships - the money you don't pay back. This year HBS will award $22 million in need-based fellowships; the average MBA fellowship is $25k per year.


This is from HBS. So a little reassurance from the richest school in the world.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 31 Oct 2008, 22:27
Great - so now all we have to do is to get admitted to Harvard.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 31 Oct 2008, 22:38
LOL
bsd_lover wrote:
Great - so now all we have to do is to get admitted to Harvard.
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 31 Oct 2008, 22:54
bsd_lover wrote:
Great - so now all we have to do is to get admitted to Harvard.

I'll do it if you do it :lol:
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 01 Nov 2008, 05:19
CompanyMan wrote:
News about International Student Loans
Date: October 30, 2008

There's been great uncertainty out there about international student loans so we are extremely pleased to be able to make this announcement:

International students at HBS will continue to have access to need-based loans without needing to find a US co-signer.

While at this time we do not have further details about specific loan programs with private lenders, we are able to make this important - and reassuring - statement about continued accessibility.

All students - both international and US citizens - will continue to be eligible for Harvard Business School fellowships - the money you don't pay back. This year HBS will award $22 million in need-based fellowships; the average MBA fellowship is $25k per year.


This is from HBS. So a little reassurance from the richest school in the world.


My sincere hope is that Harvard (http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/blog.html) and Stanford (http://www.stanford.edu/group/mba/blog/) guaranteeing access to loans for international students will put competitive pressure on other schools.

Nevertheless, for effect: $22 million ? :shock:
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 02 Nov 2008, 07:45
collegesenior wrote:
My sincere hope is that Harvard (http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/blog.html) and Stanford (http://www.stanford.edu/group/mba/blog/) guaranteeing access to loans for international students will put competitive pressure on other schools.


I doubt a lot of schools consider themselves in competition with Harvard, except for Stanford (which already has a no-cosigner loan program for internationals) and possibly Wharton. The HBS endowment blows everyone else out of the water.

In any case, since most top colleges have now followed Yale and Princeton's example of eliminating student loans altogether for most matriculating undergraduate students (and eliminating tuition altogether for students whose parents make less than $75,000) and replaced them with grants, it is quite possible some business schools will get back on the ball and do something similar to good 'ol HBS, if for nothing else to make up for perceived "prestige."

"Look, Harvard did this and so did we. We're awesome. Just like Harvard."

I personally still feel this is going to affect yield quite a bit, as there will be schools left in the lurch by the end of the application season and a lot of international folks will have no choice but to withdraw their offers if 80-100% funding isn't offered via a no-cosigner loan. Which schools these are going to be, we'll just have to wait and see.

I saw somewhere that Stern just put out an RFP looking for a new lender, so it's clear they're not looking to dip into their endowment to cover a program such as this. Even if schools find a new lender, you can bet the interest rates are going to be exorbitant - like prime plus 300 bps or something like that (as opposed to prime minus 150 for current students).
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Re: Just throwing this out there, but... [#permalink] New post 02 Nov 2008, 09:03
i think this infact is going to hurt us american applicants more than internationals, cause now international students will prbably get funding through scholarships vs us amerikans who will have to take out loans..

so not good for me..sux
Re: Just throwing this out there, but...   [#permalink] 02 Nov 2008, 09:03
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