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Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k)

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Which program do you think is best to learn, see, and experience the most during a 2-year MBA?

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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 14 Jan 2014, 15:59
And now we can add Haas (UC Berkeley) to this mix -- just got the admissions call now. What do people think?
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 14 Jan 2014, 16:24
speedyb09 wrote:
But in reality, in the short-term, I would be really excited to do work for a big company's corporate social responsibility-ish team (Nike Foundation, Google K-12 Outreach/Google.org, etc.), work at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation/Clinton Foundation, or go back to the tech industry and finally pursue my interest in marketing at a place like Apple or Google.


Congrats - based on the above from your original post, I'd go Haas.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM vs. Haas [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2014, 13:11
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There's a lot in the thread above that I'll try not to repeat, but as a current first year at Kellogg and someone who was thiiiiiiiis close to going to Haas, I'll give you my two-cent version based on the points you brought up, highlighted in blue:

First- ignore the poll you have at the top of the page. Nobody can make this decision but you. Don't make such a huge decision based on a popularity contest, especially when people who are voting have their own reasons for voting one way or the other. Next...



What I am looking to do post-MBA:
I wrote my essays on wanting to use organizational management skills to open up my own charter schools and address teach attrition in low-income schools, while bringing in technology and innovative people management strategies. While this is true, this is a very, very long-term goal. My original plan was to do a Broad Residency or work with Education Pioneers after graduation, where I would be in a management position for an educational organization. But in reality, in the short-term, I would be really excited to do work for a big company's corporate social responsibility-ish team (Nike Foundation, Google K-12 Outreach/Google.org, etc.), work at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation/Clinton Foundation, or go back to the tech industry and finally pursue my interest in marketing at a place like Apple or Google. Either way, I feel like getting an MBA gives the opportunity to start in a new industry, and I am pretty excited to any of these new things after graduation. I am not interested in finance.

first, you have a LOT of career goals up here. While that's not necessarily a bad thing- many people go into bschool not knowing what they want to do- if you are going to make a choice based on career goals you could make an argument for any of the ones above. Non-profit management? Yale (from what I hear- I actually know very little about the SOM). Tech? Go Haas, because they are spitting distance from Silicon Valley. That being said, all of those tech companies very seriously recruit at Kellogg, and give a lot of offers. Marketing? Kellogg, of course. I agree with everyone else that in the end, your career is what you make of it, so in the ultimate long run it won't matter, but in the short run it will matter for your first job out.

Here is what I am looking for in an MBA program:
    - more than the traditional MBA program. I am looking for a program that appreciates innovation and thinking outside the box.

    They should all provide that. Haas really hammers home the thinking outside the box thing in their 4 defining principles.

    - ample opportunity to go abroad. The more international opportunities I can squeeze out of these next two years, the better. I am a culture geek.

    Again, all schools should offer this. At Kellogg, though, I will say that beyond KWEST, which is more social, there are a lot of educational opportunities outside the school. A good quarter to a third of Kellogg students study abroad during winter quarter their second year; it's well supported. I'm taking a Global Initiatives in Management class this quarter that includes a two week trip to China and Mongolia during spring break as part of the class (and there are 6-8 sections of GIM that go everywhere in the world). Global Lab allows you to go abroad to do an actual consulting project for a major company. And there are many more.

    - leadership development. I am not just going to get another degree, I want to emerge a true leader.

    All schools should offer opportunities. I will say that the insane number of student clubs at Kellogg gives you ample opportunities to do so.

    - community. I don't know how else to explain this other than... community. Perhaps this has to do with size, perhaps it has to do with levels of interaction, but engaged classmates are awesome. And an engaged community = engaged alumni. I want to go to a place where people love their school, because I already love both of these programs!

    Again, I can't speak to Yale, but Haas and Kellogg get big marks on community in my book. Because of Haas' small size they are very tight-knit, and Kellogg is such a collaborative environment and people there are so sociable, you can't help but form a strong community. You win either way. I would recommend visiting, though, to make sure the environments are right for you.

    - action-based learning. I don't only want to learn things in theory, I want to be able to practice it as soon as I can. The pro-bono consulting that business school students do? I love that. I also think it bring excellent exposure and a diversity of thought.

    I too was looking for a program that had a lot of experiential learning opportunities, and Kellogg is absolutely flush with them (see exhibit A, my description of GIM and G-lab above, as just one example). I seem to remember that Haas had a number of them as well.

    - expert faculty and visits from world-class leaders. I want to learn from the best and hope their insight causes their awesome to rub off on me. Or at least inspire me. This also goes for really intelligent peers -- I want their smarts to rub off on me, too!

    All top schools will provide this. I will say that Northwestern doesn't have an undergraduate business program, unlike Berkeley, so your professors are all yours. They all seem to care about your education, and there are opportunities to interact with them outside of the classroom, such as small group lunches during the quarter.

    - multi-disciplinary. Originally, I was going to say "ability to get a join degree with a Masters in Education." But neither of these schools have that option. Yale doesn't even have an education school. But I would like the opportunity to pursue an auxiliary interest while there, if time permits.

    Sorry to say this, but unless you're in a dual-degree program, like Kellogg's MMM or JD/MBA program, you're really not going to have the time. It can be done- I think Haas it's easier to take classes outside of the school than at Kellogg, as I think at Kellogg outside classes don't count towards your required credits (but I could be wrong). That being said, I know a few people who are doing it. But just a few. Also, I can't speak to Haas or Yale, but the vast majority of Kellogg students double major, and a good chunk of us triple-major. So if there are a few areas you are interested in ( such as marketing and SEEK), it's easy to get a strong foundation in both.

    - supportive. A place where student support is fostered, although I am not sure if this is a nod to grade non-disclosure. Also, somewhere that does some sort of pre-orientation Math Camp. I definitely need to learn how to do more math before I go to business school, so I would love a school that has one of these math workshops sorted out.

    I think most schools have pre-term classes: I know that Haas offers it and Kellogg definitely offers it. You also have to take some review/pre-pre-orientation classes in areas like statistics, micro, etc. at Kellogg. And both schools are super student supportive. Kellogg doesn't have GND, which I wish it did. That being said, I don't know anybody's grades from last quarter, and frankly I don't care. Nobody's asked me for mine.

    - prestige. I will admit, this is all a part of it too. I want a big name, or maybe a high rank. Or maybe I need to stop being so prideful.

    So, here is where I do kind of feel strongly. While Yale the university-at-large is definitely the most prestigious name over Berkeley or Northwestern, I sadly have to say that in the bschool world, it's not. People will definitely know Kellogg. People (especially if you go into tech or generally end up on the west coast) will know Haas. I Know that Yale SOM is well known in the NFP world, but if you are talking to people who know business schools, the prestige of the general name of "Yale" doesn't really apply to the bschool.

    - career opportunities. A place where seek out talent.

    The best advice is to look at every school's employment report and statistics. In the end that was one of the ways Kellogg sealed the deal for me: the breadth of variety of companies and industries that grads went into was hugely attractive because I'm going the non-traditional route for my recruiting. As was the high percentage of those who had job offers before/after graduation. Between the spread of locations as well as industries that grads ended up at made me feel confident that I had a lot of options

    - fun. challenging. exciting. interesting. an opportunity to grow as a person.

    - puppy. I have a small dog (8 pounds, non-shedding) that I will bring with me. It would be awesome to go somewhere where I can get really close housing (cheaply) and keep my dog. Not a huge deal, but thought I would throw that out there.

Haas and Kellogg you can live close enough to get home during the day. I know a lot of people in my class have dogs, and they just resurrected the kellogg pets club. Can't speak to New Haven

Hopefully what is above isn't so trite that it will actually help some of you see where I am going with this. Excuse the copious amounts of detail... hoping it encourages you to tell me your opinions!
And now on the the Pros and Cons of each program (that I know of thus far):
Kellogg:
Pros:
- scholarship, which would cover 70% of tuition
- name is well-known in the business world
- higher b-school rankings... #1 Marketing, #5 Management, #5 Nonprofit [US News and World Report]
- just a 3.5 hour drive from my spouse, if he stays in Indiana
- lots of student engagement -- looks like a lot of fun! KWEST!
- has some social enterprise initiatives that I really love
Cons:
- name is not as well-known outside business-school recruiting
- building is old and feels cramped (I know they are making a new building, but I wont be there for it)
- grade disclosure breeds unnecessary competitiveness? I might be making this up.

I hope some of my notes above helped address my thoughts about Kellogg and these points (i.e. grade disclosure, etc). You are right that there is a TON of student engagement- it could very well be the most collaborative school out there. You will be in more group meetings than you know what to do with. I will agree with whoever posted that the building really doesn't make a difference: yeah, it's kind of ugly, and I'm someone who NEEDS lots of windows and sunshine in my life and it doesn't and I don't notice, but it has everything you need: food, group study rooms, printing capabilities, etc. Down the road you will never say "gosh, I would have loved my bschool experience if not for the building!" And on the plus side, if WW3 ever happens, it will double as an excellent bomb shelter. :)

Yale SOM:
Pros:
- full-ride scholarship!
- name is well-known in the business world
- integrated curriculum is pretty neat
- mandatory international trips the first year... I like the sound of that.
- the new building is going to be an awesome learning environment. I wonder if that will affect future rankings?
- being on the Yale campus means there will be lots of pretty awesome events to go to and centers to be a part of... I might be imagining this one.
Cons:
- traveling in and out of New Haven is such a hassle. The local airport only flies to Philly, and you otherwise have to make your way to and from NY. getting home would be such a pain.
- not as well-known in the business world/doesn't have as high rankings
- they use Outlook instead of the Gmail platform. I am not necessarily dinging them for that, it just makes me sad, haha.

Kellogg also uses Outlook. It's really not a big deal- to be honest, you will be living and dying by your email and calendar, especially when it comes to the large amount of group work you do at kellogg. You won't miss your personal email… in fact, you may forget about it altogether. Of course I can't really speak to the rest of your points above as I didn't look at Yale, but I will say that I don't think Yale the SOM is well-known in the business world, though Yale the university is well-known generally.

Haas:
Pros:
- name is well-known universally
- high b-school rankings... #9 Marketing, #7 Management, #4 Nonprofit [US News and World Report]
- fan of the smaller class size (and this would also be a pro for Yale)
- a very innovative atmosphere
- going, going back, back to Cali, Cali (it would be nice to escape the snow for a while!)
- they were very thorough in their admissions call as to why they accepted me -- I really appreciate that and it left a good impression
Cons:
- have to do supplemental essays now in order to be considered for scholarships
- name is not as well-known outside business-school recruiting
- the admitted students weekend is until after I have to make decisions for other programs (anyone have advice on this?)

My advice is that you head out now to visit Haas if you can't make it to admit weekend. Reach out to students and the admissions office and explain that you are coming in because you can't come that weekend, and they should be able to set up an awesome visit just for you. If you've been accepted, they will want to do everything in their power to get you to accept, so they'll treat you well. Regarding the rest of that: I like all of your pros. I also liked the small class size because it really made it easy for you to get to know your whole class, and your bschool network is everything. That being said, your extended network is a lot smaller. Also, thought Kellogg is much bigger, after one quarter I already feel like I know a ton of people, and the alumni network has been awesome to me since I've been here. One of my (few) concerns about Haas is that most people do tend to stay out west when they are done, and I wasn't sure if I would want to, which made me a little nervous about non-west coast companies being serious about recruiting there. Regarding your cons: you'd actually be surprised that a lot of people know Haas in Asia. If you're thinking about working abroad over there, the school carries a lot of weight (fun fact!)

I hope this helps… if you have any follow up questions, let me know. And I'm sure it goes without saying, but I hope you've been able to - or will be able to soon- visit all of these schools. In the end, no matter what, it's all about "fit". Make sure you feel like you fit in the environment, because if not, no amount of travel opportunities, etc. will make up for it. Good luck!!!!!

Basically, I want to learn the most, experience the most, and see the most. I would love any and all opinions, as I am going to thinking about this for the next few months and want to take anything and everything into consideration. Please tell me what you think! Thank you! :)[/quote]
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM vs. Haas [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2014, 10:26
Does anyone see membership in the Consortium and the Forte Foundation as a great benefit to your MBA network/experience/opportunities?
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM vs. Haas [#permalink] New post 09 Feb 2014, 16:40
So have you decided where you're headed yet?
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM vs. Haas [#permalink] New post 10 Feb 2014, 14:03
DefyingGravity wrote:
So have you decided where you're headed yet?


Not yet! Hoping to visit all the schools first before I make a decision. :) How about you?
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM vs. Haas [#permalink] New post 10 Feb 2014, 16:01
speedyb09 wrote:
DefyingGravity wrote:
So have you decided where you're headed yet?


Not yet! Hoping to visit all the schools first before I make a decision. :) How about you?


Me neither. This is so confusing... But it's a good problem to have.

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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 24 Feb 2014, 18:25
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So I wanted to let you know that I just pressed the accept button at Yale SOM. It doesn't feel real yet, mostly because I haven't declined at the other schools yet and I know I have the option of putting deposits down everywhere and extending my decision-making time... but I am not down for wasting that much money.

It is strange -- I knew all the reasons I should go to Kellogg/Haas, but I really like the curriculum at Yale and how it is structured with the integrated curriculum/raw case studies/openness with the rest of Yale. Yale has its deficiencies when compared to some other schools (because all schools do!), but I do see the school growing and somewhere I can make an impact. I got a lengthy email from the Associate Dean this morning after sending an idea for a new class and I talked to the Dean of Admissions tonight to give insight on how I would improve their admissions process. A little bit of me is excited to be a part of this.

I just kept realizing that while my brain said KelloggKelloggKellogg (and Haas), my heart was saying Yale. I am not sure why, but hopefully I will find out soon. :) I went against what most everyone in the poll above suggested, and even against rankings -- but I sure do have a great feeling about this place.

I just wanted to let you all know, and thank you for the advice! I look forward to seeing where other people go.
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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 24 Feb 2014, 19:43
Many congrats on making the decision. Yale is lucky to have you!
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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 25 Feb 2014, 10:10
Congrats on the decision! Go wherever you'll be happiest (and having a full-ride to that school certainly doesn't hurt).
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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 25 Feb 2014, 11:45
Expert's post
DefyingGravity wrote:
Congrats on the decision! Go wherever you'll be happiest (and having a full-ride to that school certainly doesn't hurt).


Good luck to you DefyingGravity! :-)
Hope you find peace in your decision making process.
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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 26 Feb 2014, 22:06
Congrats on making the decision! There is something to be said about feeling… like I mentioned, "fit" is most important, and it looks like you found your fit. Good luck!
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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 28 Feb 2014, 08:18
speedyb09 wrote:
So I wanted to let you know that I just pressed the accept button at Yale SOM. It doesn't feel real yet, mostly because I haven't declined at the other schools yet and I know I have the option of putting deposits down everywhere and extending my decision-making time... but I am not down for wasting that much money.

It is strange -- I knew all the reasons I should go to Kellogg/Haas, but I really like the curriculum at Yale and how it is structured with the integrated curriculum/raw case studies/openness with the rest of Yale. Yale has its deficiencies when compared to some other schools (because all schools do!), but I do see the school growing and somewhere I can make an impact. I got a lengthy email from the Associate Dean this morning after sending an idea for a new class and I talked to the Dean of Admissions tonight to give insight on how I would improve their admissions process. A little bit of me is excited to be a part of this.

I just kept realizing that while my brain said KelloggKelloggKellogg (and Haas), my heart was saying Yale. I am not sure why, but hopefully I will find out soon. :) I went against what most everyone in the poll above suggested, and even against rankings -- but I sure do have a great feeling about this place.

I just wanted to let you all know, and thank you for the advice! I look forward to seeing where other people go.


It's the best place ever. I'm still waiting to hear back from them re: R2 (I know it'll be a ding), but my brother went there, and I fell in love the second I started talking to people. That's what the school's about. Great decision!
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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 28 Feb 2014, 09:27
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Full ride at Yale? Take it. Especially if you intend to work on the East Coast / New York area. Invest the saved money and when you come out, you'll have a great MBA and an even stronger financial base to venture out from. The Yale alumni group is also very strong...and this is coming from a Harvard grad. I'd say, go to Yale.

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Re: Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k)   [#permalink] 28 Feb 2014, 09:27
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