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Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k)

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Which program do you think is best to learn, see, and experience the most during a 2-year MBA?

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Kellogg ($90k) vs. Yale SOM (full-ride) vs. Haas ($50k) [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2013, 15:29
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I know, it is early to start such a thread considering that I don't have to decide until late February... but I would love to hear people's thoughts so I can see a fuller picture and have more insight going into the admit weekends. So thank you ahead of time for all of your thoughts and help.
Before we get started, I have to admit how incredibly excited and blessed I am to have the option of these three schools, despite a 640 GMAT score (mortifying, I know).

What I am looking to do post-MBA:
I wrote my essays on wanting to use organizational management skills to open up my own charter schools and address teach attrition in low-income schools, while bringing in technology and innovative people management strategies. While this is true, this is a very, very long-term goal. My original plan was to do a Broad Residency or work with Education Pioneers after graduation, where I would be in a management position for an educational organization. But in reality, in the short-term, I would be really excited to do work for a big company's corporate social responsibility-ish team (Nike Foundation, Google K-12 Outreach/Google.org, etc.), work at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation/Clinton Foundation, or go back to the tech industry and finally pursue my interest in marketing at a place like Apple or Google. Either way, I feel like getting an MBA gives the opportunity to start in a new industry, and I am pretty excited to any of these new things after graduation. I am not interested in finance.

Here is what I am looking for in an MBA program:
    - more than the traditional MBA program. I am looking for a program that appreciates innovation and thinking outside the box.
    - ample opportunity to go abroad. The more international opportunities I can squeeze out of these next two years, the better. I am a culture geek.
    - leadership development. I am not just going to get another degree, I want to emerge a true leader.
    - community. I don't know how else to explain this other than... community. Perhaps this has to do with size, perhaps it has to do with levels of interaction, but engaged classmates are awesome. And an engaged community = engaged alumni. I want to go to a place where people love their school, because I already love both of these programs!
    - action-based learning. I don't only want to learn things in theory, I want to be able to practice it as soon as I can. The pro-bono consulting that business school students do? I love that. I also think it bring excellent exposure and a diversity of thought.
    - expert faculty and visits from world-class leaders. I want to learn from the best and hope their insight causes their awesome to rub off on me. Or at least inspire me. This also goes for really intelligent peers -- I want their smarts to rub off on me, too!
    - multi-disciplinary. Originally, I was going to say "ability to get a join degree with a Masters in Education." But neither of these schools have that option. Yale doesn't even have an education school. But I would like the opportunity to pursue an auxiliary interest while there, if time permits.
    - supportive. A place where student support is fostered, although I am not sure if this is a nod to grade non-disclosure. Also, somewhere that does some sort of pre-orientation Math Camp. I definitely need to learn how to do more math before I go to business school, so I would love a school that has one of these math workshops sorted out.
    - prestige. I will admit, this is all a part of it too. I want a big name, or maybe a high rank. Or maybe I need to stop being so prideful.
    - career opportunities. A place where seek out talent.
    - fun. challenging. exciting. interesting. an opportunity to grow as a person.
    - puppy. I have a small dog (8 pounds, non-shedding) that I will bring with me. It would be awesome to go somewhere where I can get really close housing (cheaply) and keep my dog. Not a huge deal, but thought I would throw that out there.

Hopefully what is above isn't so trite that it will actually help some of you see where I am going with this. Excuse the copious amounts of detail... hoping it encourages you to tell me your opinions!
And now on the the Pros and Cons of each program (that I know of thus far):
Kellogg:
Pros:
- scholarship, which would cover 70% of tuition
- name is well-known in the business world
- higher b-school rankings... #1 Marketing, #5 Management, #5 Nonprofit [US News and World Report]
- just a 3.5 hour drive from my spouse, if he stays in Indiana
- lots of student engagement -- looks like a lot of fun! KWEST!
- has some social enterprise initiatives that I really love
Cons:
- name is not as well-known outside business-school recruiting
- building is old and feels cramped (I know they are making a new building, but I wont be there for it)
- grade disclosure breeds unnecessary competitiveness? I might be making this up.

Yale SOM:
Pros:
- full-ride scholarship!
- name is well-known universally
- added benefit of being a part of the Consortium Network
- added benefits of being a Forte Fellow
- integrated curriculum is pretty neat
- mandatory international trips the first year... I like the sound of that.
- the new building is going to be an awesome learning environment. I wonder if that will affect future rankings?
- being on the Yale campus means there will be lots of pretty awesome events to go to and centers to be a part of... I might be imagining this one.
Cons:
- traveling in and out of New Haven is such a hassle. The local airport only flies to Philly, and you otherwise have to make your way to and from NY. getting home would be such a pain.
- not as well-known in the business world/doesn't have as high rankings
- they use Outlook instead of the Gmail platform. I am not necessarily dinging them for that, it just makes me sad, haha.

Haas:
Pros:
- scholarship, which would cover 40% of tuition
- name is well-known in the business world
- added benefit of being a part of the Consortium Network
- high b-school rankings... #9 Marketing, #7 Management, #4 Nonprofit [US News and World Report]
- fan of the smaller class size (and this would also be a pro for Yale)
- a very innovative atmosphere
- going, going back, back to Cali, Cali (it would be nice to escape the snow for a while!)
- they were very thorough in their admissions call as to why they accepted me -- I really appreciate that and it left a good impression
Cons:
- have to do supplemental essays now in order to be considered for scholarships
- name is not as well-known outside business-school recruiting
- the admitted students weekend is until after I have to make decisions for other programs (anyone have advice on this?)

Basically, I want to learn the most, experience the most, and see the most. I would love any and all opinions, as I am going to thinking about this for the next few months and want to take anything and everything into consideration. Please tell me what you think! Thank you! :)

Last edited by speedyb09 on 13 Feb 2014, 13:04, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2013, 15:47
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Your profile sounds very similar to mine. I also have admits from Yale and Kellogg; I work in the education sector and want to stay there long term but may consider a post MBA position in marketing; and I want to live somewhere where I can bring my pet :-)

Are you leaning towards one or the other right now?

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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2013, 19:45
One thing that really attracts me to Yale SOM is the fact that I feel like they are much more integrated with the whole university than other b-schools. Many of the schools' websites say you can take classes outside the b-school sure, but I specifically asked about how much exposure b-school students have with the rest of the school during each interview I did (Wharton, Yale, Fuqua, and Ross) and Yale was really the only one that made me genuinely feel like it was no big deal, in fact encouraged. I bring this up because if your career interests don't fall neatly into one of the b-school traditional paths, this may help you round out your experience. I don't know that much about Kellogg in this regard (didn't apply there), but I was encouraged by Yale.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2013, 21:13
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Congratulations - amazing job and very well done! 2 Scholarships! Interesting riddle.

1. Is your spouse planning to move to Chicago or New Haven? Are you planning to keep your place in Indiana? It sounded like you may. If not, that's actually not a great idea to go to Chicago if you end up driving back every weekend. You will be miserable. Unable to be with your spouse and unable to connect with your classmates. If he is not moving with you, go to Yale.

2. Would you stay on the east coast?
If you have no interest in staying in New England but instead moving to Chicago, it would be a much better idea to start there in the first place.

3. Is a brand name and tight alum network worth more work at recruiting time?
Yale is a great brand. Fantastic conversation starter with a regular Joe who works at a coffee shop. Also Yale t-shirts make a great holiday gift. But only 66% of FT graduates were employed at graduation last time I checked. 85% were employed 3 months out.
Kellogg on the other hand, was at 77% and 92% respectively. New Haven is not a great place to live (been a while since I visited the place so it may have improved). However, the campus and the library are amazing. Lots of history, pride, and a great sense of belonging which a smaller program produces. (only about 230 vs. 640 at Kellogg). However, I would not put class size as an important area/category - smaller class is NOT better as many believe.

As to the travel to Yale, you have White Plains (HPN) and Hartford, CT nearby. Both are pretty competitive airports within 45 mins - 1 hour drive. Not horrible since these are smaller airports and I assume there won't be as much traffic driving in and out of Hartford or HPN. I have flown in and out of Hartford and it was a breeze.

P.S. 10 years ago I would have gone to Yale without a second thought. I was a brand name junkie.
Now, in retrospect, I would have looked where I wanted to be, how much savings I had, amount of stress I would have, expectations for starting a family, etc... basically everything OTHER than the bschool itself since I don't think you can go wrong with either and $25K is not that much in the grand scheme of things, so I would not let that get in the way of 2 years of your life.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2013, 21:23
bb wrote:
Congratulations - amazing job and very well done! 2 Scholarships! Interesting riddle.

1. Is your spouse planning to move to Chicago or New Haven? Are you planning to keep your place in Indiana? It sounded like you may. If not, that's actually not a great idea to go to Chicago if you end up driving back every weekend. You will be miserable. Unable to be with your spouse and unable to connect with your classmates. If he is not moving with you, go to Yale.

2. Would you stay on the east coast?
If you have no interest in staying in New England but instead moving to Chicago, it would be a much better idea to start there in the first place.

3. Is a brand name and tight alum network worth more work at recruiting time?
Yale is a great brand. Fantastic conversation starter with a regular Joe who works at a coffee shop. Also Yale t-shirts make a great holiday gift. But only 66% of FT graduates were employed at graduation last time I checked. 85% were employed 3 months out.
Kellogg on the other hand, was at 77% and 92% respectively. New Haven is not a great place to live (been a while since I visited the place so it may have improved). However, the campus and the library are amazing. Lots of history, pride, and a great sense of belonging which a smaller program produces. (only about 230 vs. 640 at Kellogg). However, I would not put class size as an important area/category - smaller class is NOT better as many believe.

As to the travel to Yale, you have White Plains (HPN) and Hartford, CT nearby. Both are pretty competitive airports within 45 mins - 1 hour drive. Not horrible since these are smaller airports and I assume there won't be as much traffic driving in and out of Hartford or HPN. I have flown in and out of Hartford and it was a breeze.

P.S. 10 years ago I would have gone to Yale without a second thought. I was a brand name junkie.
Now, in retrospect, I would have looked where I wanted to be, how much savings I had, amount of stress I would have, expectations for starting a family, etc... basically everything OTHER than the bschool itself since I don't think you can go wrong with either and $25K is not that much in the grand scheme of things, so I would not let that get in the way of 2 years of your life.


Great points, but Yale's class size is at 300 and I think Kellogg's 2YR MBA's class size is around 500 - still a big gap thou.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2013, 08:06
DefyingGravity wrote:
Your profile sounds very similar to mine. I also have admits from Yale and Kellogg; I work in the education sector and want to stay there long term but may consider a post MBA position in marketing; and I want to live somewhere where I can bring my pet :-)

Are you leaning towards one or the other right now?

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Unfortunately, I am not leaning more towards one or the other. They both have their merits, I lean towards Yale on some and Kellogg on some other things.
Hoe about we just go to the same place and be housemates so we can have our pets hang out together? Haha.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2013, 10:10
speedyb09 wrote:
DefyingGravity wrote:
Your profile sounds very similar to mine. I also have admits from Yale and Kellogg; I work in the education sector and want to stay there long term but may consider a post MBA position in marketing; and I want to live somewhere where I can bring my pet :-)

Are you leaning towards one or the other right now?

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Unfortunately, I am not leaning more towards one or the other. They both have their merits, I lean towards Yale on some and Kellogg on some other things.
Hoe about we just go to the same place and be housemates so we can have our pets hang out together? Haha.


Similar here with those admits to, and weighing the same pros and cons except I have a cat haha. Yale offered you a full ride-awesome congrats! Consortium by any chance?

It's true-people outside the b school world hear Yale and automatically say whoa amazing (which it is!). People more familiar with graduate programs understand that Kellogg is a big friggin deal.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2013, 13:48
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Hey Speedy - definitely relate to your decision, so let me see if I can shed some light on the pros and cons you have listed. I'll try to stay unbiased about Kellogg, but after that it's all the good stuff about Yale. :)

speedyb09 wrote:
Kellogg:
Pros:
- scholarship, which would cover 75% of tuition
- name is well-known in the business world
- higher b-school rankings... #1 Marketing, #5 Management, #5 Nonprofit [US News and World Report]
- just a 3.5 hour drive from my spouse, if he stays in Indiana
- lots of student engagement -- looks like a lot of fun! KWEST!
- has some social enterprise initiatives that I really love
Cons:
- name is not as well-known outside business-school recruiting
- building is old and feels cramped (I know they are making a new building, but I wont be there for it)
- grade disclosure breeds unnecessary competitiveness? I might be making this up.


Like you said, students are super engaged and really run the school more than any other b-school I've seen. (Maybe they just talk about it more?). During my visit, I definitely got the sense that students make the experience what they want it to be and are very involved. The name may not be well-known outside business school recruiting, but let's be clear - the most important recruiting you'll be doing is directly from b-school. After your first job out of school, the alumni network and your work experience stand on their own. I wouldn't worry too much about the prestige level. It will have minor impact.

The building is definitely old. I didn't experience it as cramped, but it was certainly an industrial concrete blob that's far from appealing. I have never heard any competitiveness regarding grades in b-school. It seems like the competition is mostly around career, but you'll have to talk to Kellogg people directly about whether this is true.

speedyb09 wrote:
Yale SOM:
Pros:
- full-ride scholarship!
- name is well-known universally
- integrated curriculum is pretty neat
- mandatory international trips the first year... I like the sound of that.
- the new building is going to be an awesome learning environment. I wonder if that will affect future rankings?
- being on the Yale campus means there will be lots of pretty awesome events to go to and centers to be a part of... I might be imagining this one.
Cons:
- traveling in and out of New Haven is such a hassle. The local airport only flies to Philly, and you otherwise have to make your way to and from NY. getting home would be such a pain.
- not as well-known in the business world/doesn't have as high rankings
- they use Outlook instead of the Gmail platform. I am not necessarily dinging them for that, it just makes me sad, haha.


Kellogg definitely ranks higher in most rankings, but in non-profit, Yale is #1 in US News. Obviously Yale's reputation is unbeatable, but like I said before, I wouldn't dig too deep into the prestige issue. The new building is an amazing piece of construction. After the tours last week, I am even more excited about moving in next month!

International Trips: our international experience is a great opportunity to meet government leaders, visit international companies, and gain exposure to different business practices. This trip is actually a course, which students select from a list of 12 destinations, which is taught by an SOM professor. There is another class called the Global Social Enterprise, which is offered each semester. It is an international project that includes both consulting work in country and research and preparation at Yale. Last year they went to India in the fall and Nicaragua in the spring, this year it's in India in the fall again and the Philippines in the spring.

I'm not going to mince words: the airport situation in New Haven is really annoying. I have actually flown in and out of New Haven's airport twice, but its only destination is Philadelphia, which means no direct flights to anywhere I go. My partner heads back and forth to San Francisco for work and it's definitely a pain. In my mind though, this is a pretty small exchange for the right school, and it's only 2 years. That said, the trade-off gets amplified if you are trying to visit your spouse, and it sounds like a big part of your decision involves a conversation about what kind of expectations you two have for the next two years.

The curriculum is unique as you note, and academics actually matter a lot at Yale. I really appreciate that people are here to learn as much as they are to advance their careers. As you said, there is a running theme of "One Yale" here at the b-school, which definitely resonates with your interest in being connected to the greater university and its resources.

The thing that I can't emphasize enough though is the importance of visiting. You should definitely attend both schools' admitted student weekends if you can!

It's hard to type everything out here, but I hope this helps!
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2013, 15:57
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Here's my 2 cents after having to make a similar decision not quite 5 years ago (holy crap).

I chose Kellogg for a few reasons:

- 1Y program
- Generally more prestigious B school (and, in my opinion, that is possibly 80% of what an MBA is for)
- Better healthcare program
- Seemed like more fun

On three of the four points, I'm glad that I chose Kellogg. I'm not sure that the healthcare program really mattered that much in retrospect.

Now, how to apply my experience to your situation.

For me the significant other piece would be of great significance, which is why I went with 1Y. I can't speak to your personal views, plans, etc. there, but it seems that Kellogg would be better if the SO is not relocating with you. I can only imagine the horrors of a frequent New Haven to Indiana trip.

Another massive caveat (and one that most people on this forum probably don't want to hear): I think most business schools are far more similar than people make them out to be. They all have silly clubs and "leadership" opportunities (honestly, I think most of that stuff is a joke, a viewpoint that is shared by virtually all other normal post-MBA people I've spoken to about it in the workplace). They all have the opportunity for tons of international travel, for fun and personal/professional development. They all have goofy parties and pretend-to-learn-about-a-different-culture events.

So, what does potentially differ:

- Academics: Kellogg and Yale are probably about the same, at least in terms of what you're focusing on. Kellogg will have more marketing stuff (and just more options in general) and Yale more nonprofit, but overall the coursework is basically the same. With the exception of case-only/heavy schools, I think that most MBAs have just about the same curriculum but come up with catchy (read: corny) descriptions of how they're different. Kellogg has grade disclosure, but it doesn't really matter. If you're kind of dumb or really, really don't care, you'll get an occasional C. If you try reasonably hard, you'll get mostly As. Otherwise you'll get Bs. People accept this and don't compete over it. Overall, though, I would say that I was somewhat disappointed by the level of academic engagement of my fellow classmates. Not to say the the classes weren't interesting the many of the professors great, I just wish people had actually cared a bit more about learning (this coming from one of the biggest boozers on campus).

- Reputation: Everyone laid out the conundrum here. I usually tell people I went to Northwestern. Then if they respond with "Oh, Kellogg", I know that they know about business schools.

- Career Opportunities: If you want the typical, exciting post-MBA type of job in a third random location (Atlanta, Dallas, etc.), then Kellogg is almost definitely an advantage. Otherwise, probably not much of a difference. If you want a job in Chicago, Kellogg is a massive advantage. It's hard to overstate how entrenched Kellogg alums are in the Chicago professional landscape. Yale might have an advantage in New York and Boston, but New York is probably pretty even given the sheer number of Kellogg alums. I originally looked for jobs in Boston and Kellogg was not very well represented there. I can't speak much about the non-profit recruiting difference between the two.

- Fun (aka, the people): I generally quite enjoyed Kelloggians. They know how to have fun. And there are very few of the stereotypical smug, money-obsessed, full-of-him/herself B school students there. I really appreciated that. I would wager than SOM is pretty similar. My one gripe about Kelloggians is their rah-rah attitude (and people like me are relatively scarce when it comes to this). I would not have been able to handle all the Kellogg Kool-Aid chugging for the duration of a two-year program. I recall a classmate bursting out in tears in class because another classmate had the gall to say something somewhat critical of the school. It was bizarro-world like that sometimes. No idea if Yale is this annoying or if you would find this as annoying as I did. I got the impression that Yale people are a bit more reserved and less cheerleadery about their school. I would have appreciated that.

- Building: No idea what Yale's new building is all about. But, going against the grain a bit again, I think that B school buildings are very over-rated in terms of importance. As long as they have wifi, conference rooms, and reliable printers, what else do you really need? Jacobs has that. And I found the quasi-brutalist, maze-like office layout, and 1970s floor tiling of Jacobs to be kind of endearing. It had an academic feel, not a corporate one. And I was in school, not at work. Plus, the new location is appallingly far away from the core of Evanston.

- Location: Evanston is basically Pleasantville (at least around campus). New Haven is not. But New Haven has its gritty charms. I went to what is possibly the most urban school in America for undergrad, so I appreciated the campus feel of Evanston but convenience of Chicago.

- The other stuff you're looking for: Kellogg and Yale seem on par in terms of "innovation and thinking outside the box". I know Kellogg had math camp-like intros for people who needed or wanted it. Don't know about Yale.

Hope this helped. Not sure it did. Apologies if it came off as pessimistic. I'm very glad I went to Kellogg.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2013, 07:28
Rubashov1 wrote:
Here's my 2 cents after having to make a similar decision not quite 5 years ago (holy crap).

I chose Kellogg for a few reasons:

- 1Y program
- Generally more prestigious B school (and, in my opinion, that is possibly 80% of what an MBA is for)
- Better healthcare program
- Seemed like more fun

On three of the four points, I'm glad that I chose Kellogg. I'm not sure that the healthcare program really mattered that much in retrospect.

Now, how to apply my experience to your situation.

For me the significant other piece would be of great significance, which is why I went with 1Y. I can't speak to your personal views, plans, etc. there, but it seems that Kellogg would be better if the SO is not relocating with you. I can only imagine the horrors of a frequent New Haven to Indiana trip.

Another massive caveat (and one that most people on this forum probably don't want to hear): I think most business schools are far more similar than people make them out to be. They all have silly clubs and "leadership" opportunities (honestly, I think most of that stuff is a joke, a viewpoint that is shared by virtually all other normal post-MBA people I've spoken to about it in the workplace). They all have the opportunity for tons of international travel, for fun and personal/professional development. They all have goofy parties and pretend-to-learn-about-a-different-culture events.

So, what does potentially differ:

- Academics: Kellogg and Yale are probably about the same, at least in terms of what you're focusing on. Kellogg will have more marketing stuff (and just more options in general) and Yale more nonprofit, but overall the coursework is basically the same. With the exception of case-only/heavy schools, I think that most MBAs have just about the same curriculum but come up with catchy (read: corny) descriptions of how they're different. Kellogg has grade disclosure, but it doesn't really matter. If you're kind of dumb or really, really don't care, you'll get an occasional C. If you try reasonably hard, you'll get mostly As. Otherwise you'll get Bs. People accept this and don't compete over it. Overall, though, I would say that I was somewhat disappointed by the level of academic engagement of my fellow classmates. Not to say the the classes weren't interesting the many of the professors great, I just wish people had actually cared a bit more about learning (this coming from one of the biggest boozers on campus).

- Reputation: Everyone laid out the conundrum here. I usually tell people I went to Northwestern. Then if they respond with "Oh, Kellogg", I know that they know about business schools.

- Career Opportunities: If you want the typical, exciting post-MBA type of job in a third random location (Atlanta, Dallas, etc.), then Kellogg is almost definitely an advantage. Otherwise, probably not much of a difference. If you want a job in Chicago, Kellogg is a massive advantage. It's hard to overstate how entrenched Kellogg alums are in the Chicago professional landscape. Yale might have an advantage in New York and Boston, but New York is probably pretty even given the sheer number of Kellogg alums. I originally looked for jobs in Boston and Kellogg was not very well represented there. I can't speak much about the non-profit recruiting difference between the two.

- Fun (aka, the people): I generally quite enjoyed Kelloggians. They know how to have fun. And there are very few of the stereotypical smug, money-obsessed, full-of-him/herself B school students there. I really appreciated that. I would wager than SOM is pretty similar. My one gripe about Kelloggians is their rah-rah attitude (and people like me are relatively scarce when it comes to this). I would not have been able to handle all the Kellogg Kool-Aid chugging for the duration of a two-year program. I recall a classmate bursting out in tears in class because another classmate had the gall to say something somewhat critical of the school. It was bizarro-world like that sometimes. No idea if Yale is this annoying or if you would find this as annoying as I did. I got the impression that Yale people are a bit more reserved and less cheerleadery about their school. I would have appreciated that.

- Building: No idea what Yale's new building is all about. But, going against the grain a bit again, I think that B school buildings are very over-rated in terms of importance. As long as they have wifi, conference rooms, and reliable printers, what else do you really need? Jacobs has that. And I found the quasi-brutalist, maze-like office layout, and 1970s floor tiling of Jacobs to be kind of endearing. It had an academic feel, not a corporate one. And I was in school, not at work. Plus, the new location is appallingly far away from the core of Evanston.

- Location: Evanston is basically Pleasantville (at least around campus). New Haven is not. But New Haven has its gritty charms. I went to what is possibly the most urban school in America for undergrad, so I appreciated the campus feel of Evanston but convenience of Chicago.

- The other stuff you're looking for: Kellogg and Yale seem on par in terms of "innovation and thinking outside the box". I know Kellogg had math camp-like intros for people who needed or wanted it. Don't know about Yale.

Hope this helped. Not sure it did. Apologies if it came off as pessimistic. I'm very glad I went to Kellogg.



This is quite helpful and kudos to speedyb for starting this topic. I'm thinking hard about these two as well-I have a social impact minded investment management aspirations (or if I'm going to try something totally new : intersection between CPG/retail and media think Oprah/Martha Stewart sans the lacking ethics). But in the long term later in my career I really do hope to be in public service. Based on generalizations it seems Yale would be better for investment management/public roles while Kellogg the other. Any thoughts in regards to that?
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2013, 10:01
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Rubashov1 wrote:
Here's my 2 cents after having to make a similar decision not quite 5 years ago (holy crap).

I chose Kellogg for a few reasons:

- 1Y program
- Generally more prestigious B school (and, in my opinion, that is possibly 80% of what an MBA is for)
- Better healthcare program
- Seemed like more fun

On three of the four points, I'm glad that I chose Kellogg. I'm not sure that the healthcare program really mattered that much in retrospect.

Now, how to apply my experience to your situation.

For me the significant other piece would be of great significance, which is why I went with 1Y. I can't speak to your personal views, plans, etc. there, but it seems that Kellogg would be better if the SO is not relocating with you. I can only imagine the horrors of a frequent New Haven to Indiana trip.

Another massive caveat (and one that most people on this forum probably don't want to hear): I think most business schools are far more similar than people make them out to be. They all have silly clubs and "leadership" opportunities (honestly, I think most of that stuff is a joke, a viewpoint that is shared by virtually all other normal post-MBA people I've spoken to about it in the workplace). They all have the opportunity for tons of international travel, for fun and personal/professional development. They all have goofy parties and pretend-to-learn-about-a-different-culture events.

So, what does potentially differ:

- Academics: Kellogg and Yale are probably about the same, at least in terms of what you're focusing on. Kellogg will have more marketing stuff (and just more options in general) and Yale more nonprofit, but overall the coursework is basically the same. With the exception of case-only/heavy schools, I think that most MBAs have just about the same curriculum but come up with catchy (read: corny) descriptions of how they're different. Kellogg has grade disclosure, but it doesn't really matter. If you're kind of dumb or really, really don't care, you'll get an occasional C. If you try reasonably hard, you'll get mostly As. Otherwise you'll get Bs. People accept this and don't compete over it. Overall, though, I would say that I was somewhat disappointed by the level of academic engagement of my fellow classmates. Not to say the the classes weren't interesting the many of the professors great, I just wish people had actually cared a bit more about learning (this coming from one of the biggest boozers on campus).

- Reputation: Everyone laid out the conundrum here. I usually tell people I went to Northwestern. Then if they respond with "Oh, Kellogg", I know that they know about business schools.

- Career Opportunities: If you want the typical, exciting post-MBA type of job in a third random location (Atlanta, Dallas, etc.), then Kellogg is almost definitely an advantage. Otherwise, probably not much of a difference. If you want a job in Chicago, Kellogg is a massive advantage. It's hard to overstate how entrenched Kellogg alums are in the Chicago professional landscape. Yale might have an advantage in New York and Boston, but New York is probably pretty even given the sheer number of Kellogg alums. I originally looked for jobs in Boston and Kellogg was not very well represented there. I can't speak much about the non-profit recruiting difference between the two.

- Fun (aka, the people): I generally quite enjoyed Kelloggians. They know how to have fun. And there are very few of the stereotypical smug, money-obsessed, full-of-him/herself B school students there. I really appreciated that. I would wager than SOM is pretty similar. My one gripe about Kelloggians is their rah-rah attitude (and people like me are relatively scarce when it comes to this). I would not have been able to handle all the Kellogg Kool-Aid chugging for the duration of a two-year program. I recall a classmate bursting out in tears in class because another classmate had the gall to say something somewhat critical of the school. It was bizarro-world like that sometimes. No idea if Yale is this annoying or if you would find this as annoying as I did. I got the impression that Yale people are a bit more reserved and less cheerleadery about their school. I would have appreciated that.

- Building: No idea what Yale's new building is all about. But, going against the grain a bit again, I think that B school buildings are very over-rated in terms of importance. As long as they have wifi, conference rooms, and reliable printers, what else do you really need? Jacobs has that. And I found the quasi-brutalist, maze-like office layout, and 1970s floor tiling of Jacobs to be kind of endearing. It had an academic feel, not a corporate one. And I was in school, not at work. Plus, the new location is appallingly far away from the core of Evanston.

- Location: Evanston is basically Pleasantville (at least around campus). New Haven is not. But New Haven has its gritty charms. I went to what is possibly the most urban school in America for undergrad, so I appreciated the campus feel of Evanston but convenience of Chicago.

- The other stuff you're looking for: Kellogg and Yale seem on par in terms of "innovation and thinking outside the box". I know Kellogg had math camp-like intros for people who needed or wanted it. Don't know about Yale.

Hope this helped. Not sure it did. Apologies if it came off as pessimistic. I'm very glad I went to Kellogg.



This is quite helpful and kudos to speedyb for starting this topic. I'm thinking hard about these two as well-I have a social impact minded investment management aspirations (or if I'm going to try something totally new : intersection between CPG/retail and media think Oprah/Martha Stewart sans the lacking ethics). But in the long term later in my career I really do hope to be in public service. Based on generalizations it seems Yale would be better for investment management/public roles while Kellogg the other. Any thoughts in regards to that?


I don't have much input to give on this, since I'm more experienced in consulting and healthcare recruiting, so just about as far off from what you're targeting as possible. :lol: But, yes, Kellogg is almost certainly a better choice for CPG/retail.

My general view is that when you are thinking really long-term, as in much later in your career, where you went to B school really doesn't have much of an impact. It's really what you've done throughout your career that matters. Sure, B school can get you moving in the right direction, but I would argue that it usually doesn't matter so much within just a few years of graduation.

For instance, I recently landed my dream of all dream jobs. You know how I got it? I was recruited by my pre-Kellogg boss. Sure, going to Kellogg helped her to justify hiring me, but it was the 6 years of hard work I put in before Kellogg and great amount of industry knowledge I developed during that time that made her want me to join the team.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2013, 13:12
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Rubashov1 wrote:

I don't have much input to give on this, since I'm more experienced in consulting and healthcare recruiting, so just about as far off from what you're targeting as possible. :lol: But, yes, Kellogg is almost certainly a better choice for CPG/retail.

My general view is that when you are thinking really long-term, as in much later in your career, where you went to B school really doesn't have much of an impact. It's really what you've done throughout your career that matters. Sure, B school can get you moving in the right direction, but I would argue that it usually doesn't matter so much within just a few years of graduation.

For instance, I recently landed my dream of all dream jobs. You know how I got it? I was recruited by my pre-Kellogg boss. Sure, going to Kellogg helped her to justify hiring me, but it was the 6 years of hard work I put in before Kellogg and great amount of industry knowledge I developed during that time that made her want me to join the team.



I could not agree more with this!!! Thank you for a very refreshing perspective.
P.S. Congrats on the job!
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 05:21
I love that 24 people have voted in the poll on the top of the page! If you could elaborate on why you made that choice, I would love to hear it!
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 08:15
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bb wrote:
However, I would not put class size as an important area/category - smaller class is NOT better as many believe.



True smaller is not "better", but it definitely makes for a much different experience. It's not like you're choosing between Yale and Darden where the class sizes are similar.

I wanted a small school and got it at Johnson. I like walking around the school and saying hi to pretty much everyone in my class and some of the 2nd years. There are probably only 20 people in my class that I've never interacted with (yet I still recognize their faces). I wouldn't trivialize this point.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 09:20
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bb wrote:
However, I would not put class size as an important area/category - smaller class is NOT better as many believe.



True smaller is not "better", but it definitely makes for a much different experience. It's not like you're choosing between Yale and Darden where the class sizes are similar.

I wanted a small school and got it at Johnson. I like walking around the school and saying hi to pretty much everyone in my class and some of the 2nd years. There are probably only 20 people in my class that I've never interacted with (yet I still recognize their faces). I wouldn't trivialize this point.



Thank you for chiming in! I am going to provide a bit more light on my experience (risking to annoy the moderator for raking the thread off topic)

I had an opportunity to to compare a small program with as few as 45 people in a class at HKUST to Chicago Booth with 500.
I have previously taken the school of thought that smaller=better. However, I found the larger school/class size to be more advantageous from the standpoint of classes offered (variety) and classmate diversity (people who have worked in the industry I may be interested in going). I am also a small-pond type of guy, so I felt having a big school environment, pushed my boundaries and comfort levels, thus forcing to learn new situations, and adapt to them.

P.S. My personal definition of a small class size is is about 20-30 people (which almost no schools have that) and once you beyond that, my personal ability to connect with people gets lost and I can no longer keep track of folks, so if it is 150, 250, or 500 it does not matter to me personally, and the bigger the better at that point. My personal preference.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 14:33
bb wrote:


P.S. My personal definition of a small class size is is about 20-30 people (which almost no schools have that) and once you beyond that, my personal ability to connect with people gets lost and I can no longer keep track of folks, so if it is 150, 250, or 500 it does not matter to me personally, and the bigger the better at that point. My personal preference.


Different strokes for different folks! :-D

But going back to the OP: Both Yale and Northwestern are impressive institutions, and yes, Kellogg carries more weight in B-school circles while Yale has more "wow" factor to those who aren't in tune with B-school rankings. The question is: who are you trying to impress?
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 17:24
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bb wrote:


P.S. My personal definition of a small class size is is about 20-30 people (which almost no schools have that) and once you beyond that, my personal ability to connect with people gets lost and I can no longer keep track of folks, so if it is 150, 250, or 500 it does not matter to me personally, and the bigger the better at that point. My personal preference.


Different strokes for different folks! :-D

But going back to the OP: Both Yale and Northwestern are impressive institutions, and yes, Kellogg carries more weight in B-school circles while Yale has more "wow" factor to those who aren't in tune with B-school rankings. The question is: who are you trying to impress?


That is a fantastic question -- I honestly don't know. If I go the non-profit/education route purely, Yale definitely carries more weight just because they are not likely to be as keen to b-school rankings. But in the short-term, I would like to go back into the corporate sector, in which the Kellogg name will carry more. I will admit, I really enjoy the "WOW, YOU GOT INTO YALE?!?!" response that I get from people.
I am really going for an amazing experience and a place of huge post-MBA opportunity.

Just to throw some more crazy into the situation, I just got invited to interview at Haas... but I am not sure that is going to actually change this situation.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 18:01
speedyb09 wrote:
I will admit, I really enjoy the "WOW, YOU GOT INTO YALE?!?!" response that I get from people.


8-) what's their reaction when you tell them you got a full-ride?

speedyb09 wrote:
I am really going for an amazing experience and a place of huge post-MBA opportunity.



You'll have an amazing experience at both. Between academics, clubs, socializing and recruiting, I really think there isn't much difference in the quality of the experience at a top-5 school like Kellogg or a top-15 like Yale. The difference is brand, which quite frankly, is pretty superficial.

Go forth and do awesome things.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 23 Dec 2013, 19:44
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Yale. For social responsibility type of interest, you will find lots of similarly minded folks at Yale.
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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM [#permalink] New post 25 Dec 2013, 07:56
asimov wrote:
Yale. For social responsibility type of interest, you will find lots of similarly minded folks at Yale.


Don't forget that the SEEK major at kellogg is incredibly robust. You'll be just as likely to find similarly minded people there. But, I'm not voting since I'm in the same dilemma as you and still trying to decide Yale or Kellogg.

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Re: Kellogg vs. Yale SOM   [#permalink] 25 Dec 2013, 07:56
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