Find all School-related info fast with the new School-Specific MBA Forum

It is currently 17 Sep 2014, 07:38

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Events & Promotions

Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

Lawyers and B-School

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 4
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2008, 10:46
I have a couple of questions for any ex-lawyers (not joint degree people) that took the plunge into student loan la-la land by attending business school.

1. Do you believe admission committees viewed your legal degree & law firm experience as unique? Or is there a stigma attached b/c you are switching careers?

2. Did the JD help/hurt with regards to MBA recruiters/employers. Was it viewed as a real asset or merely another piece of sheepskin?

3. Was law school more difficult academically?
GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
User avatar
Status: Um... what do you want to know?
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 5464
Location: SF, CA, USA
Schools: UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA 2010
WE 1: Social Gaming
Followers: 65

Kudos [?]: 333 [0], given: 14

GMAT Tests User
Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2008, 13:47
can't help you with #1 and 2, but I'm pretty sure (after talking to a Law School friend of mine) that Law school (and Engineering/Med School) degrees are MUCH harder academically. B-school is tough not because of the academics, but because of all the things you have to juggle (networking, searching for a job, leading clubs, etc...) all at once.
_________________

****************************
GMAT Club Knowledge Vault:
http://gmatclub.com/forum/123
Haas Ambassador
http://gmatclub.com/forum/128-t62555
Kryzak's Profile:
http://gmatclub.com/forum/111-t56286
Member Essays:
http://gmatclub.com/forum/103-t50969

GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
User avatar
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4320
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
Followers: 78

Kudos [?]: 693 [0], given: 5

GMAT Tests User
Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2008, 13:54
You should PM pelihu with these questions. Not sure how often he is around but he was a lawyer but is now a 1st year at Darden, and is heading into IB.
_________________

Kellogg Class of 2010...still active and willing to help. However, I do not do profile reviews, don't offer predictions on chances and am far to busy to review essays, so save the energy of writing me a PM seeking help for these. If I don't respond to a PM that is not one of the previously mentioned trash can destined messages, please don't take it personally I get so many messages I have a hard to responding to most. The more interesting, compelling, or humorous you message the more likely I am to respond.
Get the best GMAT Prep Resources with GMAT Club Premium Membership

Director
Director
User avatar
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 524
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 25 Apr 2008, 01:47
1. There are not so many lawyers out there. It can be unique although falling into the basket of liberal arts/consultants guys. It is not a 'switching' thing that they look at but the proof that "you are not running from law" (see Montauk's book).

2. I have heard that Juris Doctor/ Joint Degree helps, especially in IB.

3. The law school program is one of the most rigorous programs on the planet. So if you have good GPA from a law school then it might be a proof to the adcoms that you will catch up with the rigorous b-school schedule. I remember, the Wharton adcom told me that lawyer do really well at their program :P

PM me if you want to ask smth more specific. Btw, I also am a lawyer.

Last edited by nick_sun on 20 May 2008, 08:56, edited 1 time in total.
1 KUDOS received
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2308
Schools: Darden
Followers: 41

Kudos [?]: 423 [1] , given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 03 May 2008, 13:16
1
This post received
KUDOS
As mentioned, I have a JD and I'm at Darden. Here's what I've noticed.

1. A law degree and law firm experience is not unique as there are definitely JDs in every class (we have 3 this year and a JD/MBA). As far as how it is viewed by adcoms, specifics are more important than generalizations. If you have a JD from a lower ranked school and are applying to a top business school, the JD will have little (and possibly negative) impact on your application. If you have a top 0 JD and are applying to a top 25 business school, it will likely be viewed as a positive, potentially a major factor. Schools are concerned about their brand. Stanford and Harvard business schools view JDs from schools ranked below the top 10 (maybe top 5 or top 3) as diluting their brand. Lower ranked schools look at degrees from Penn or Georgetown law schools as big pluses. The same idea applies to law firm work experience. Some law firms are among the most difficult places around to land jobs at, and people who are able to secure these jobs and thrive are viewed very favorably. There are maybe 10 or 15 firms that elite and ultra-elite schools embrace; the hundreds of other firms, not so much. So if you have a JD from XYZ State U (non-elite), I wouldn't count on it help much with your ultra-elite application, and in some cases it could hurt, a lot.

2. A JD and firm experience can help in recruiting, but again, specifics are key. The big investment banks are familiar with the dozen or so big firm that they deal with regularly. If you're a capital markets or finance lawyer with one of the big firms in New York, you'll do well with IB recruiting. If you are with one of the elite litigation firms, consulting firms will love you. If you're a personal injury lawyer or with some unknown firm in Kansas City, you're not going to have much street cred with recruiters.

3. From an academic standpoint, law school was probably a little tougher, but business school requires better time management. This is coming from an English major though. If your verbal skills are less than top notch, law school could prove to be a lot more difficult. Business school seems to abound with people with great quantitative skills, but if you have a hard time with math business school will be no picnic. It's just that, there aren't that many people that suck at math who are at business school.
Manager
Manager
avatar
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 81
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 1 [0], given: 0

Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 04 May 2008, 18:40
pelihu wrote:
As mentioned, I have a JD and I'm at Darden. Here's what I've noticed.

<snip>

3. From an academic standpoint, law school was probably a little tougher, but business school requires better time management. This is coming from an English major though. If your verbal skills are less than top notch, law school could prove to be a lot more difficult. Business school seems to abound with people with great quantitative skills, but if you have a hard time with math business school will be no picnic. It's just that, there aren't that many people that suck at math who are at business school.



Pelihu,
Please excuse some personal curiosity on my part but, If you have the time, could you perhaps expand a bit on the ways they skew. I suppose I am really curious if one is more amenable to a particular type of learner.
Help!
2 KUDOS received
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 2308
Schools: Darden
Followers: 41

Kudos [?]: 423 [2] , given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 05 May 2008, 09:46
2
This post received
KUDOS
helpslip wrote:

Pelihu,
Please excuse some personal curiosity on my part but, If you have the time, could you perhaps expand a bit on the ways they skew. I suppose I am really curious if one is more amenable to a particular type of learner.
Help!


Hmm, that's not an easy question to answer. Let me give it a shot.

Quantitative skills are very useful at business school, but we're not really talking about serious math skills (certain electives might actually call for higher math skills, but that's unusual). It's more important to be comfortable with numbers, manipulating them, changing fractions and percents, teasing out trends and things like that; the sort of stuff they test you on in the GMAT. It's my opinion (just my opinion) that most people graduating from good college can learn these skills. Some people, like engineers, scientists, economists, etc., are already comfortable with these skills based on their experience, but given the right preparation I believe that most people can learn the required skills. It's simply not that complex or high level. The real challenge in business school are balancing the demands on your time, such as social and outreach activities, group learning, recruiting events, etc. I'm pretty confident that even the people I used to know as an English major and in law school could be taught the necessary math skills in pretty short order. A 6-12 month review course would be more that sufficient.

Law school, on the other hand, calls for a set of skills that some people cannot reach no matter how hard they try (I'm talking about top law schools, which offer a challenging theoretical curriculum as opposed to many schools that are nothing more than a review of local rules and for the bar exam). Again, this is just my opinion, but unlike the math skills required by business school, some people will never be able to develop the logic and reasoning skills required for law school. For comparison, the LSAT also has RC and CR sections, but they are much harder. I finished the GMAT verbal section with 20+ minutes to spare and scored 51V. If I recall, some 90-95% of test-takers do not complete every question on the LSAT (without just filling in answers). You must read really fast, and draw logical conclusions immediately. There's not time to break down the logic and re-read questions; and even at breakneck pace most people won't finish anyways. This translates directly to law school, where you will tackle complex cases that build a complex framework of logical resolutions. If you can't break down the dozens of logical points to reach the end of each case, there's no way to do well with the material.

so, based on my experience, I think pretty much everyone can learn the math skills required to succeed in business school, but a pretty substantial portion of folks can't learn the skills necessary for law school (top schools) no matter how hard they work at it. This isn't a comparison of math a verbal skills. There's definitely math out there that the vast majority of people will never be able to understand no matter how hard they try; it's just that business school doesn't require those skills (for the most part). If you can just get comfortable with manipulating fractions, you've pretty much got it. On the other hand, law school isn't just about verbal skills. It's more than just being able to read quickly. Learning to draw logical conclusions and working through logic games and challenges is essential, and at the top schools you must be able to really quickly. There's just too much material to cover. I think that's why LSAT is a bigger part of admissions than the GMAT is. People who struggle on the GMAT might still be able to succeed in business school, but people who struggle on the LSAT are dead meat in law school. So anyone who has struggled to get to the 90th or 99th percentile on the GMAT verbal, imagine 50% more material per section, more complicated thought processes, and competition from a much more logically/verbally oriented pool of talent and you have the LSAT.
Manager
Manager
avatar
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 81
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 1 [0], given: 0

Re: Lawyers and B-School [#permalink] New post 07 May 2008, 22:01
pelihu wrote:
helpslip wrote:

Pelihu,
Please excuse some personal curiosity on my part but, If you have the time, could you perhaps expand a bit on the ways they skew. I suppose I am really curious if one is more amenable to a particular type of learner.
Help!


Hmm, that's not an easy question to answer. Let me give it a shot.

<snip>

so, based on my experience, I think pretty much everyone can learn the math skills required to succeed in business school, but a pretty substantial portion of folks can't learn the skills necessary for law school (top schools) no matter how hard they work at it. This isn't a comparison of math a verbal skills. There's definitely math out there that the vast majority of people will never be able to understand no matter how hard they try; it's just that business school doesn't require those skills (for the most part). If you can just get comfortable with manipulating fractions, you've pretty much got it. On the other hand, law school isn't just about verbal skills. It's more than just being able to read quickly. Learning to draw logical conclusions and working through logic games and challenges is essential, and at the top schools you must be able to really quickly. There's just too much material to cover. I think that's why LSAT is a bigger part of admissions than the GMAT is. People who struggle on the GMAT might still be able to succeed in business school, but people who struggle on the LSAT are dead meat in law school. So anyone who has struggled to get to the 90th or 99th percentile on the GMAT verbal, imagine 50% more material per section, more complicated thought processes, and competition from a much more logically/verbally oriented pool of talent and you have the LSAT.


Hi Pelihu,
Thanks for the (as usual) cogent summation. I take heart from your assertion that an English major can survive Bschool math. :)

Your point about the comparative difficulty is interesting. Obviously the logic games differ greatly from anything presented on the GMAT but the RC and CR questions that I have seen (e.g., Princeton study material) did not strike me as fundamentally more difficult. However, your point about the # of folks who finish the actual test within the time frame is a good one. Additionally, I suspect that a majority of LSAT takers are likely to excel in CR/RC whereas these two areas are usually the trailing field for GMAT takers (as evidence by the usual quant / verbal score splits). You have piqued my curiosity. I am going to throw down the 8 bucks and see what an actual LSAT looks like.

Thanks again.

Help!
Re: Lawyers and B-School   [#permalink] 07 May 2008, 22:01
    Similar topics Author Replies Last post
Similar
Topics:
Any Lawyers Heading to B-School? peeweeninja 1 07 Jan 2013, 20:21
1 Experts publish their posts in the topic Review - Lawyer to B-school JackDaniels 3 10 Dec 2012, 15:17
Experts publish their posts in the topic Lawyer profile - please evaluate LawNick 1 20 Sep 2011, 09:36
Experts publish their posts in the topic Is being a lawyer a disadvantage? m&a 3 25 May 2005, 04:46
Application from UK Lawyer gnowynot 2 26 Jan 2005, 07:43
Display posts from previous: Sort by

Lawyers and B-School

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  


GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Privacy Policy| Terms and Conditions| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group and phpBB SEO

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.