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Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours

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Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 20 Feb 2010, 23:10
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Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out from the surface of the murky water.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2010, 05:11
vscid wrote:
Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out from the surface of the murky water.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out



Usage of "with eyes and" is wrong, as "with eyes and" can refer to crocodiles or vacationers: AMBIGUOUS: So d and e are out.

Usage of "are peeking out" a progressive usage: Not correct: A is out

Usage of "had" i justified, if "participated" would have been used.: Keep the sentence in simple past tense if possible.

Finally B.
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2010, 09:30
IMO D.
Whose is wrong usage in A, B and C; E wordy
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2010, 10:55
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Hey All,

While Angel's explanation is entirely correct, it's a bit light on detail, so I thought I'd weigh in.

The big category here is modifiers, and the rules regarding modifiers are very strict. If you want to modify a noun, the modifier and the modifi-ee (my invented word) have to touch.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out

The first split you inevitably saw (aside from the verb tense issue up front, which we can also discuss) was "whose" versus "with". "Whose" is a relative pronoun, and can only be used to modify nouns. That means that "whose" better go RIGHT NEXT to the thing it modifies. Unfortunately, in A, B and C, it modifies "shallows". This doesn't make any sense, for obvious reasons.

"with" is a preposition, and also sets off a modifying phrase. However, this phrase is not modifying crocodiles (As you may have assumed) but "lurking". One way to determine what's being modified is to ask yourself what question is being answered by the modifying phrase. In other words, you can't answer a question about the crocodile with this modifier ("What were the crocodiles doing?" "With eyes and noses peeking out" -- this makes no sense). But you can answer the question "How were the crocodiles lurking?" "With eyes and noses peeking out"). We're modifying a verb, and verb modifiers DO NOT need to touch the verbs they modify.

Between D and E, D is simply more concise (there's no reason to introduce the relative pronoun "that"; it just complicates the meaning).

Also, there's no reason to use any tense but present here. Notice the original verb "participate", which is in the present, then ask yourself if there's any good reason to change tenses. There isn't. Answer is D.

Hope that helps!
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2010, 11:11
angel2009 wrote:
IMO D.
Whose is wrong usage in A, B and C; E wordy


IMO D ...... agree as above

wats the OA??
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2010, 14:37
vscid wrote:
Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out from the surface of the murky water.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out


Many daring vacationers | who participate in guided boat tours | on the Tarcoles River | encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, | with eyes and noses peeking out | from the surface of the murky water.

My standard way of solving SC questions, break the sentence into meaningful clauses, each clause speaks about one and only one thing. Now you can eliminate some of the clauses that are just adding information and aren't necessary to understand the complete meaning. That way, you can clearly see the usage of "whose" is a pronoun-referencing error.

My take is D and lock this as the OA.
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 22 Feb 2010, 01:41
Thanku TommyWallach
explanation was very useful
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2010, 20:27
Thank you TommyWallach for the excellent explanation. +1
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Re: Tarcoles River [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2010, 22:48
D for me as well.... thanks TommyWallach for wonderful explanation!
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Re: Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 21 Nov 2013, 07:49
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Re: Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 25 Jul 2014, 03:21
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

While Angel's explanation is entirely correct, it's a bit light on detail, so I thought I'd weigh in.

The big category here is modifiers, and the rules regarding modifiers are very strict. If you want to modify a noun, the modifier and the modifi-ee (my invented word) have to touch.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out

The first split you inevitably saw (aside from the verb tense issue up front, which we can also discuss) was "whose" versus "with". "Whose" is a relative pronoun, and can only be used to modify nouns. That means that "whose" better go RIGHT NEXT to the thing it modifies. Unfortunately, in A, B and C, it modifies "shallows". This doesn't make any sense, for obvious reasons.

"with" is a preposition, and also sets off a modifying phrase. However, this phrase is not modifying crocodiles (As you may have assumed) but "lurking". One way to determine what's being modified is to ask yourself what question is being answered by the modifying phrase. In other words, you can't answer a question about the crocodile with this modifier ("What were the crocodiles doing?" "With eyes and noses peeking out" -- this makes no sense). But you can answer the question "How were the crocodiles lurking?" "With eyes and noses peeking out"). We're modifying a verb, and verb modifiers DO NOT need to touch the verbs they modify.

Between D and E, D is simply more concise (there's no reason to introduce the relative pronoun "that"; it just complicates the meaning).

Also, there's no reason to use any tense but present here. Notice the original verb "participate", which is in the present, then ask yourself if there's any good reason to change tenses. There isn't. Answer is D.

Hope that helps!


So whose cannot be defined correct in view of the context here..just as 'with' is defined correct here wrt to the context..
Whose irrespective of the context always refers to the preceding noun...whatever it might be..
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Re: Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 27 Jul 2014, 09:17
vscid wrote:
Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out from the surface of the murky water.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out



My take on this question is in a different way , As i think use of whose is correct because It clearly refer's to croc's !!

Ans is D,

Reasoning as follows : < I split sentence into its clauses >

Many Daring vactioners,

Who participate in guided tours on the tarcos river , encounter native crocodile lurking in the swallows,

Whose eyes & noes are peeking out from the surface of murky water

Now, As per S-V agreement Sentence is correct,
Pronoun : whose --> referring to croc correct
Verb Tense : Since this is a information statement hence Simple present tense must be use , Use of present progressive in under line portion ( Whose eyes & noes are peeking) wrong
Modifiers : Correct
Parallelism : OK
Idioms : does not find any specific
Meaning : clear

A : Wrong because of VT error
B: use of encountered verb wrong
C : Use of past perfect wrong
D : Correct Ans ,
E : Use of that unnecessary

Hope it helps !!

Regards
ST
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Re: Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 27 Jul 2014, 09:24
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

While Angel's explanation is entirely correct, it's a bit light on detail, so I thought I'd weigh in.

The big category here is modifiers, and the rules regarding modifiers are very strict. If you want to modify a noun, the modifier and the modifi-ee (my invented word) have to touch.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out

The first split you inevitably saw (aside from the verb tense issue up front, which we can also discuss) was "whose" versus "with". "Whose" is a relative pronoun, and can only be used to modify nouns. That means that "whose" better go RIGHT NEXT to the thing it modifies. Unfortunately, in A, B and C, it modifies "shallows". This doesn't make any sense, for obvious reasons.

"with" is a preposition, and also sets off a modifying phrase. However, this phrase is not modifying crocodiles (As you may have assumed) but "lurking". One way to determine what's being modified is to ask yourself what question is being answered by the modifying phrase. In other words, you can't answer a question about the crocodile with this modifier ("What were the crocodiles doing?" "With eyes and noses peeking out" -- this makes no sense). But you can answer the question "How were the crocodiles lurking?" "With eyes and noses peeking out"). We're modifying a verb, and verb modifiers DO NOT need to touch the verbs they modify.

Between D and E, D is simply more concise (there's no reason to introduce the relative pronoun "that"; it just complicates the meaning).

Also, there's no reason to use any tense but present here. Notice the original verb "participate", which is in the present, then ask yourself if there's any good reason to change tenses. There isn't. Answer is D.

Hope that helps!


I am having 1 doubt, although whose is place close to swallows but it does not make sense that swallows have eyes & nose !!

Its must not be the Eliminating factor !!

Plz clarify !!

Regards
ST
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Re: Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 11 Aug 2014, 21:42
Hi E-Gmat/ Shraddha,
Kindly help me in my analysis of this sentence :

Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter
native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peaking out from the
surface of the murky water.

Meaning- vacationers encounter crocks with eyes and noses lurking out from water.
Structure : Many daring vacationers : Subject
who participate in guided boat tours : D/C with relative pronoun
on the Tarcoles River : prep phrase
encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows : IC / lurking in shallows is modifier modifying crocks/ encounter is the main verb
, whose eyes and noses are peaking out from the surface of the murky water : DC with relative pronoun.

My confusion is that the explanation and other posters say that whose incorrectly refers to shallows whereas as per my understanding lurking is shallows is a noun modifier so isn't whose correctly referring to crocks , as it is the logical antecedent for whose.

Kindly help me with your explanation.

Tks/Brgds
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Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 11 Aug 2014, 22:35
Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out from the surface of the murky water.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out

IMO D
Reasons: Look Closely, the sentence is in present tence so the " encounter" should be parallel to Present tense " "participate " Hence eliminate 2 & 3
Left with 1, 4 & 5
In 1 whose is ambigous dont know whose is for croc or for vacationers= eliminated
left with 4 &5
5 is word that are not needed
Option =4 right choice
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Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours [#permalink] New post 11 Aug 2014, 22:48
Enbee11 wrote:
Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours on the Tarcoles River encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out from the surface of the murky water.

1]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses are peeking out
2]encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
3]had encountered native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, whose eyes and noses peek out
4]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses peeking out
5]encounter native crocodiles lurking in the shallows, with eyes and noses that are peeking out

IMO D
Reasons: Look Closely, the sentence is in present tence so the " encounter" should be parallel to Present tense " "participate " Hence eliminate 2 & 3
Left with 1, 4 & 5
In 1 whose is ambigous dont know whose is for croc or for vacationers= eliminated
left with 4 &5
5 is word that are not needed
Option =4 right choice


Hi Enbee 11,

I agree that ans is D that is fine ,but I am confused about option A wrong for reason of pronoun ambiguity. I don't think that whose can refer to vacationers by jumping over main performing verb encounter.
Many daring vacationers who participate in guided boat tours   [#permalink] 11 Aug 2014, 22:48
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