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Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the

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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   16 Jan 2018, 22:52
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When I met Liza yesterday, it was the first time I _____ her since Christmas.

a. saw
b. had seen
c. have seen
d. have been seen

sir/maam, can you please help me to know the correct answer and explain it. and why the other option is wrong

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   17 Jan 2018, 00:06
anah wrote:
When I met Liza yesterday, it was the first time I _____ her since Christmas.

a. saw
b. had seen
c. have seen
d. have been seen

sir/maam, can you please help me to know the correct answer and explain it. and why the other option is wrong

Posted from my mobile device



Although, I am not an expert but let me try.

Context - I met Liza yesterday - so past from now. Right !
usage of past tense verb " met " is correct for simple past tense.

Again the verb " was " denotes simple past so the next verb has to be logically in sense with the verbs " met and was".


The Present perfect tense indicates either continued action or continued effect of a completed action up to the present. With since, use the Present perfect to indicate an action or effect that continues to the present time. - Courtsey MGMAT SC Guide

In other words something that is continuosuly coming from the past to present and something that has only reference in the past. I think you must have figured out that the answer should be option C = have seen (have denotes present perfect and seen is the past participle of base verb form - to see)


option A - saw
now if I use the verb saw then three simple past verbs in the sentece " met " , " was" and "saw" will represent the same time of the action. In other words if two simple tense verbs are used in the sentence it clearly means that both verbs performed action at the same time.

So logically meeting her yesterday and seeing her (i.e. when see saw Liza on the eve of Christmas - a past event from yesterday) cannot be a simultaneous event.

option B - had seen

first of all had seen is a past perfect usage so it signifies past of the past. Now it can be used here but its not preferrable because we have already used another marker " yesterday" so relating two events in past

event 1 - past of past = seeing her on the eve of christmas
event 2 - past = meeting her yesterday

option D = have been seen
have been = present perfect continous and seen - past participle of the verb " to see "
so this construction is grammatically as well as logically incorrect

grammatically - seen should be seeing as verb-ing form is used for continuous events.
logically - if she is seeing her on a continous basis how come yesterday it was the first time.

R.
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Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 14 Jan 2022, 03:17
alimad wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 67
Page: 245

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss


not only is choice e is wordy, it also suffer terrible meaning error.

"rise in something" and " rise of something" is idiom. rise in this number means this number increases. rise of 10 percent means the amount increased is 10 percent.

"rise for something" dose not mean that thing increase. in choice e, rate of loss dose not rise but is a purpose of some increase.

Originally posted by thangvietnam on 06 Nov 2018, 02:11.
Last edited by thangvietnam on 14 Jan 2022, 03:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   02 Aug 2019, 00:08
Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise- those of referring to the rate should be singular.
(B) it rises for loss- it reference is ambiguous
(C) those of losses rise- same as A
(D) the rate of loss rises- correct
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss- distorts the parallel structure
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   04 Jul 2020, 01:10
alimad wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 67
Page: 245

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss



(A) those of loss rise - Wrong: Comparison
(B) it rises for loss - Wrong: Comparison 2) Structure
(C) those of losses rise - Wrong: Comparison
(D) the rate of loss rises - Correct
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss - Wrong: Wordy
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2020, 03:09
the categorize meaning errors on gmat into 2 kinds.
type 1. easy one. you read only one choice and you see the illogical error immediately
the first star is in summer ( this is from og books)

type 2. hard one. if you read only one choice, you can not realize the illogical meaning. you need to read 2 choices to realize that one meaning is inferior.

remember "type 2, 2 choices).

come back to our problem.

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise.
(A) those of loss rise --
(B) it rises for loss --
(C) those of losses rise --
(D) the rate of loss rises --
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss --

reading choice E, we can not find illogical meaning. so, we meet type 2.
reading choice E and D, we see the the inferior.
in choice D, "drop" and "rises" are in contrast.
in choice E, "drop" , and "there are rises" are in contrast. this is inferior.

remember type 2 of meaning error . you can realize this meaning error or inferior meaning only when you compare 2 choices. without comparison , you can not find out inferior meaning.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   26 Aug 2020, 16:40
Hello experts!

For answer choice B, there seems to be a lack of consensus within this thread. B definitely does not seem to be correct, but I can't definitively say why. Can someone please explain?

I'm in favor of the side in which "it" isn't ambiguous, but i'm not sure how it's a parallelism error. I believe there are numerous instances in which you can have two different prepositions to start two parallel items.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   26 Aug 2020, 19:39
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samgyupsal wrote:
Hello experts!

For answer choice B, there seems to be a lack of consensus within this thread. B definitely does not seem to be correct, but I can't definitively say why. Can someone please explain?

I'm in favor of the side in which "it" isn't ambiguous, but i'm not sure how it's a parallelism error. I believe there are numerous instances in which you can have two different prepositions to start two parallel items.

Here's the version created via the use of choice (B).

    Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while it rises for loss.

Notice that "it" is not a demonstrative pronoun such as "that." "It" is a personal pronoun. So, "it" must refer to a noun that appears elsewhere in the sentence.

In this case "it" must refer to "the rate of addition to arable lands," because "it" has to refer to a noun that appears elsewhere, and what appears elsewhere is "the rate of addition to arable lands."

So, let's see what we get when we replace "it" with what "it" refers to.

    Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of addition to arable lands rises for loss.

That sentence is clearly nonsensical.

So, now, we can see clearly what's wrong with choice (B).
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Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   27 Aug 2020, 03:07
(A) those of loss rise
(1) Pronoun disagreement – “…who predict THAT the RATE of addition…while THOSE…”

(B) it rises for loss
(1) changes meaning – “Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop WHILE it (the rate of addition to arable lands) rises for loss.” Nonsensical meaning MartyTargetTestPrep TY!

(C) those of losses rise
(1) Pronoun disagreement – “…who predict THAT the RATE of addition…while THOSE…”

(D) the rate of loss rises
Best option

(E) there are rises for the rate of loss
(1) lack of parallelism – “…who predict THAT the RATE of addition…while there are rises…”

Hi experts I have a question about E.
Within this thread, a good majority of people state that there is a lack of parallelism; I clearly wrote lack of parallelism as well.. But looking back, is this really the case? If I'm not mistaken, comparison markers such as "whereas," "while," and "although" do NOT necessarily need to be strictly parallel. "Whereas Bob loves french fries, the likelihood of the vegans loving the french fries is low." E definitely is NOT correct, but is there a definitive reason as to why it's wrong other than it's wordy/unidiomatic?
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   26 Dec 2020, 08:20
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samgyupsal wrote:
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss
(1) lack of parallelism – “…who predict THAT the RATE of addition…while there are rises…”

Hi experts I have a question about E.
Within this thread, a good majority of people state that there is a lack of parallelism; I clearly wrote lack of parallelism as well.. But looking back, is this really the case? If I'm not mistaken, comparison markers such as "whereas," "while," and "although" do NOT necessarily need to be strictly parallel. "Whereas Bob loves french fries, the likelihood of the vegans loving the french fries is low." E definitely is NOT correct, but is there a definitive reason as to why it's wrong other than it's wordy/unidiomatic?

Your analysis regarding parallelism is spot on. What follows "while" does not have to be strictly parallel to what precedes it, and thus there is no parallelism type flaw associated with choice (E).

The real issue with choice (E) is that the meaning expressed by the version created via the use of (E) is nonsensical.

What does "there are rises for the rate of loss" even mean? Does it mean that the rate of loss rises? That's not what it says.

"There are increases in the rate of loss" would work, but "there are rises for the rate of loss" is practically gibberish.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   30 Dec 2020, 08:37
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alimad wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 67
Page: 245

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss


Predict is followed by that the rat of, so the underlined part should be followed by "of" losses.

A. Those is plural, while the rate is singular. Eliminated.

B. "for" rises is used but need "of" rises. Eliminated.

C. Those is plural, while the rate is singular. Eliminated.

D. Correct.

E. Redundant. Eliminated.

The answer is D.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   07 May 2022, 03:40
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
samgyupsal wrote:
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss
(1) lack of parallelism – “…who predict THAT the RATE of addition…while there are rises…”

Hi experts I have a question about E.
Within this thread, a good majority of people state that there is a lack of parallelism; I clearly wrote lack of parallelism as well.. But looking back, is this really the case? If I'm not mistaken, comparison markers such as "whereas," "while," and "although" do NOT necessarily need to be strictly parallel. "Whereas Bob loves french fries, the likelihood of the vegans loving the french fries is low." E definitely is NOT correct, but is there a definitive reason as to why it's wrong other than it's wordy/unidiomatic?

Your analysis regarding parallelism is spot on. What follows "while" does not have to be strictly parallel to what precedes it, and thus there is no parallelism type flaw associated with choice (E).

The real issue with choice (E) is that the meaning expressed by the version created via the use of (E) is nonsensical.

What does "there are rises for the rate of loss" even mean? Does it mean that the rate of loss rises? That's not what it says.

"There are increases in the rate of loss" would work, but "there are rises for the rate of loss" is practically gibberish.


Hello MartyTargetTestPrep,
Thank you for the explanation above,
There are many discussions regarding tense in correct choice,
need an expert opinion on this one,
As you said structure need not be exactly parallel, I agree, but
while - represents same timings.

How can be one be in future and one in present?

Rate of addition will drop while the rate of loss rises.
Thanks!
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   07 May 2022, 12:15
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dcoolguy wrote:
Hello MartyTargetTestPrep,
Thank you for the explanation above,
There are many discussions regarding tense in correct choice,
need an expert opinion on this one,
As you said structure need not be exactly parallel, I agree, but
while - represents same timings.

How can be one be in future and one in present?

Rate of addition will drop while the rate of loss rises.
Thanks!

Here's the correct version:

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss rises.

What we have here is the present tense used in describing a future event. "The rate of loss rises" is used to describe an event that will occur in the future.

Here's why.

Think about the meaning of the following:

The rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss will rise.

Notice that that sentence does not actually say that the two events will occur at the same time. "X will occur while y will occur," conveys that x will occur, not while y occurs, but rather while it is the case that y WILL occur. In other words, the event of y occurring is even further in the future than the event of x occurring.

So, in order to convey that two events will occur at the same time in the future, we use the future tense for one and the present tense for the other.

Here are some more examples:

As Jim is painting the barn, Sue will repair the stable.

Julia will greet the guests while Marco is setting up.

So, in fact, "the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss rises," conveys that one event will occur while the other occurs in the future.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   25 May 2022, 22:54
alimad wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 67
Page: 245

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss


For the "B" option there is clear antecedent "rate", but the this rate has a modifier "of addition".
Thus, the full antecedent will be "the the rate of addition"
When we substitute pronoun we have the following

(B) "the the rate of addition" rises for loss - does it make sense ?
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   26 May 2022, 05:29
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BLTN wrote:
alimad wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 67
Page: 245

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss


For the "B" option there is clear antecedent "rate", but the this rate has a modifier "of addition".
Thus, the full antecedent will be "the the rate of addition"
When we substitute pronoun we have the following

(B) "the the rate of addition" rises for loss - does it make sense ?


Hello BLTN,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query and provide a bit of additional clarity, Option B does not make sense, and the sentence formed by Option B forms an illogical meaning because the pronouns “that” and "those" are used to refer to a variation of the subject, but the pronoun “it” is used to refer to the exact same subject.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   05 Aug 2022, 07:19
the rate (singular),
A, c, and e can be eliminated

B does not make much sense since it implies that the same rate will drop while it rises
D referring to another rate makes sense and it is indeed the correct answer
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   30 Oct 2022, 03:43
Expert Reply
Dear Friends,

Here is a detailed explanation to this question-
alimad wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2005

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 67
Page: 245

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise,

(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss


Concepts tested here: Pronouns + Awkwardness/Redundancy

• The pronouns “that” and "those" are used to refer to a variation of the subject, and the pronouns “it” and "they" are used to refer to the exact same subject.

A: This answer choice incorrectly refers to the singular noun "rate" with the plural pronoun "those".

B: This answer choice incorrectly uses the pronoun "it" to refer to a variation of the subject noun "the rate of addition"; remember, the pronouns “that” and "those" are used to refer to a variation of the subject, and the pronouns “it” and "they" are used to refer to the exact same subject.

C: This answer choice incorrectly refers to the singular noun "rate" with the plural pronoun "those".

D: Correct. This answer choice avoids the pronoun errors seen in Options A, B, and C, as it uses no pronouns. Further, Option E is free of any awkwardness or redundancy.

E: This answer choice uses the needlessly wordy construction "there are rises for", leading to awkwardness and redundancy.

Hence, D is the best answer choice.

All the best!
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink] New post   16 Nov 2023, 11:15
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