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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that [#permalink]
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1. This is an OG question. You may see no choice contains the 'will rise' option. So, this must be an acceptable version. In some connotations, even the simple present may stand for future events. Like, the school reopens middle of next, month or Hilary is expected to run for the Prez in 2016.
2. There is also a view that only when we use the fanboy connector ‘and’ should we really look for strict physical //ism, such as in this case, 'will drop and will rise'. But when we use the subordinate connector while, we can still validly use the present tense rises.
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Ruigr3 wrote:
Hey guys.
Can anybody explain why we do not use future tense? lands will drop while the rate of loss rises

Thank you


This usage is called future conditional - such usage is also observed in if and when clauses:

If I eat Pizza, I shall fall sick.
I shall talk to you when I have time.

Similarly,
The rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss rises.
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Re: Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the [#permalink]
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The Rate is singular hence rise is wrong, rises is correct.

E is absolutely redundant and hence D wins.

D also maintains Parallelism.

Originally posted by honchos on 27 Dec 2013, 04:34.
Last edited by honchos on 22 Jun 2014, 00:34, edited 1 time in total.
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samgyupsal wrote:
Hello experts!

For answer choice B, there seems to be a lack of consensus within this thread. B definitely does not seem to be correct, but I can't definitively say why. Can someone please explain?

I'm in favor of the side in which "it" isn't ambiguous, but i'm not sure how it's a parallelism error. I believe there are numerous instances in which you can have two different prepositions to start two parallel items.

Here's the version created via the use of choice (B).

    Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while it rises for loss.

Notice that "it" is not a demonstrative pronoun such as "that." "It" is a personal pronoun. So, "it" must refer to a noun that appears elsewhere in the sentence.

In this case "it" must refer to "the rate of addition to arable lands," because "it" has to refer to a noun that appears elsewhere, and what appears elsewhere is "the rate of addition to arable lands."

So, let's see what we get when we replace "it" with what "it" refers to.

    Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of addition to arable lands rises for loss.

That sentence is clearly nonsensical.

So, now, we can see clearly what's wrong with choice (B).
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ajit257 wrote:
Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise.
(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss

Can some explain why the ans to this makes sense ..thanks.


"D" seems most obvious choice on two counts

1) the rate of xyz is singular.
2) E is redundant and B has unclear antecedent IT

pls feel free to correct me if i am wrong

thanks
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64. Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters
who predict that
the rate of addition to arable lands will drop
while those of loss rise.

(A) those of loss rise -> No antecedent for pronoun those
(B) it rises for loss -- > in comparison when ”it” appear with second entity it denote exactly the same antecedent in this case it refer to “the rate of addition” which makes nonsensical statement.
(C) those of losses rise --> same as choice A
(D) the rate of loss rises --> Correct (the Rate ... rises )
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss -- Wordy and unidiomatic
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Vizy wrote:
Can someone explain the issue with timing in this sentence please?

Is it ok to use Future (will drop) with Present (rises) in this context? Is the part "while the rate of loss rises" already out of "prediction"?


Yes , it is an Idiom

X will rise , while Y rises
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samgyupsal wrote:
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss
(1) lack of parallelism – “…who predict THAT the RATE of addition…while there are rises…”

Hi experts I have a question about E.
Within this thread, a good majority of people state that there is a lack of parallelism; I clearly wrote lack of parallelism as well.. But looking back, is this really the case? If I'm not mistaken, comparison markers such as "whereas," "while," and "although" do NOT necessarily need to be strictly parallel. "Whereas Bob loves french fries, the likelihood of the vegans loving the french fries is low." E definitely is NOT correct, but is there a definitive reason as to why it's wrong other than it's wordy/unidiomatic?

Your analysis regarding parallelism is spot on. What follows "while" does not have to be strictly parallel to what precedes it, and thus there is no parallelism type flaw associated with choice (E).

The real issue with choice (E) is that the meaning expressed by the version created via the use of (E) is nonsensical.

What does "there are rises for the rate of loss" even mean? Does it mean that the rate of loss rises? That's not what it says.

"There are increases in the rate of loss" would work, but "there are rises for the rate of loss" is practically gibberish.
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alimad wrote:
24. Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise.
(A) those of loss rise
(B) it rises for loss
(C) those of losses rise
(D) the rate of loss rises
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss


D it is!!

The rate is singular. Immediately elminate A, C and E.
That leaves B and D. B has modifer problem, not clear what "it" is referring to. D is the winner.
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(A) those of loss rise Wrong - "those...rise" is not consistent with singular referent, rate
(B) it rises for loss Wrong - "for loss" is not structurally similar to "of addition"
(C) those of losses rise Wrong - "those...rise" is not consistent with singular referent, rate
(D) the rate of loss rises Correct
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss Wrong - inverted sentence structure is unneeded and not structurally similar to the "rate of addition"

IMO D
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Can someone explain the issue with timing in this sentence please?

Is it ok to use Future (will drop) with Present (rises) in this context? Is the part "while the rate of loss rises" already out of "prediction"?
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Sunil01 wrote:
honchos wrote:
The Rate is singular hence rise is wrong, rises is correct.

E is absolutely redundant and hence D wins.

D also maintains Parallelism.

hi,

agrees 'the rate' is singular, but how in non underline portion 'the rate' is plural.
'the rate of addition to arable lands will drop'
drop is plural and is referring to 'the rate'

experts please help.

Thanks & regards,
Sunil01


No, "drop" is not plural here - the verb is "will drop" which may be singular or plural. "It will drops" is wrong.
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Hey guys.
Can anybody explain why we do not use future tense? lands will drop while the rate of loss rises

Thank you
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Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while those of loss rise.
(A) those of loss rise -- those should logically refer to rate but those is plural whereas rate is singular
(B) it rises for loss -- it refers to rate of addition to arable lands --> illogical
(C) those of losses rise -- same as A
(D) the rate of loss rises -- Correct
(E) there are rises for the rate of loss -- wordy and redundant

Answer D
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When I met Liza yesterday, it was the first time I _____ her since Christmas.

a. saw
b. had seen
c. have seen
d. have been seen

sir/maam, can you please help me to know the correct answer and explain it. and why the other option is wrong

Posted from my mobile device
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dcoolguy wrote:
Hello MartyTargetTestPrep,
Thank you for the explanation above,
There are many discussions regarding tense in correct choice,
need an expert opinion on this one,
As you said structure need not be exactly parallel, I agree, but
while - represents same timings.

How can be one be in future and one in present?

Rate of addition will drop while the rate of loss rises.
Thanks!

Here's the correct version:

Ms. Chambers is among the forecasters who predict that the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss rises.

What we have here is the present tense used in describing a future event. "The rate of loss rises" is used to describe an event that will occur in the future.

Here's why.

Think about the meaning of the following:

The rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss will rise.

Notice that that sentence does not actually say that the two events will occur at the same time. "X will occur while y will occur," conveys that x will occur, not while y occurs, but rather while it is the case that y WILL occur. In other words, the event of y occurring is even further in the future than the event of x occurring.

So, in order to convey that two events will occur at the same time in the future, we use the future tense for one and the present tense for the other.

Here are some more examples:

As Jim is painting the barn, Sue will repair the stable.

Julia will greet the guests while Marco is setting up.

So, in fact, "the rate of addition to arable lands will drop while the rate of loss rises," conveys that one event will occur while the other occurs in the future.
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daagh wrote:
Quote:
Hirendhanak wrote

"D" seems most obvious choice on two counts

1) the rate of xyz is singular.
2) E is redundant and B has unclear antecedent IT

pls feel free to correct me if i am wrong


D is certainly the choice.

But the reasons of elimination of choices B is slightly off IMO.

1. B. There is no ambiguity about the antecedence of ‘it ‘. After all, the rate is the only singular noun on the text and it can not refer to any thing else and that is the right antecedent. One can not argue, it stands for addition becos, it makes no sense to say that addition rises for loss.

But B is wrong because of llism. The rate of addition uses an of preposition while it rises for loss uses a for preposition.



thanks very much... i always mess up when it comes to understanding the rules of how to identify whether IT refers to which antecedent

Can you help me with concrete check points which can give me an idea abt IT's antecedent ( if possible with example ) it will be a great help

thanks in advance
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