Musings

We already discussed this topic. Look in eralier posts.

Thanks boksana for this. I am in the process of deciding for the same. I read in some of the posts that their tests are same as arco. i have asked about it from akambira.
Continuing my musings, i took the first 800 score test today. I had downloaded 5 tests from some site .It has seperate sections not cumulative tests. Therefore, i dont know what my final score wud be.. My scaled score was 45 in maths..90 percentile ( 4/37 incorrect). and 40 in verbal 83 percentile.
Can anybody , who has used 800 score test, tell me what wud have been my total score with these scaled scores.? plzzzz
About the test:

Maths I found bit harder than princeton..but wud still say it was on easier side compared to ETS. There were hardly any real busters.. though some were of good standard.Lot of questions on airthmatic, work problems and number properties. Out of 4 mistakes i did, 3 were downright silly for ex...noting down incorrect number or adding instead of multiplying.
I think scoring was again quite weird.
Verbal: SC was again very different from ets type and on easier side. Some of the answers were surely incorrect. I will post them
CR's were fine but had some controversial answers and reasoning provided.. i will post them on appropriate forums.
RC passages, 2 of them particularly, were tough and abstract. Again, i would say not ETS types. Fortunately questions were easier, otherwise i wud have scored less than 30 scaled score!!!!
Again, i finsihed both sections 20-25 min before the test. I have to really work on my timing. I think i have a habit of rushing through in the start.
I would like to hear from those who have any experience with 800 score tests.

Since few days, i have started doing GMAT + tests. I solve all section ( CR, RC, DS AND PS) tests in one go. I keep 2 hours for that.. I give myself 20-25 minutes for 20 CR questions.. 25-30 min for 25 RC questions.. 20-22 min for 20 ps questions and 25 min for 25 ds questions.
Though the time given according to the test instructions is bit more. ( for example.. 30 min for 20 ps questions.. 30 min for cr questions etc)
I have deliberately chosen to give myself less time so that i can increase my speed and focus. So I take all individual section tests in one sitting to simulate the 2 hour testing time
I would like to know that what is the difficulty level of these questions and does doing them in much lesser time than CAT time.. compensates for the less difficulty level? Does gmat+ questions give good practice?
As for my performance..I make 0- 1 mistake in PS, 1-2 in ds . I make 1-2 mistakes in CR.. and around 3 -4 in RC ( here i would like to mention that i choose to do only tough and convulted science passages .. because that's my only achilles heel in RC.. i want to get rid of the scare they give me).
Generally i have observed that level of difficulty suddenly increases in last 5 questions or so in every section. First few questions in every section are simply kid stuff.
Yes, Iam not doing SC section tests because i have already seen those questions in either OG or 885 mega bank.
Tommorow I intend to take online princeton test.

Iam looking forward to hear any comments about GMAT + material.
Today I also took online princeton test and scored 700 ( q51 v36)
Score suggests that suddenly my quant skills have improved and my verbal skills have gone down. But I know this is hardly the case. Scores could be really deceptive . I only try to gauge my weaknesses from these tests.
Regarding the test.. I think it was better than pr cd test in that Maths had some good questions though still overall difficulty level was easier than ETS. In verbal all of the RC's were science passages and 2-3 cr's and 1-2 rc questions were ambiguous.
Finally, I have ordered kaplan2005 book along with cd. Going by the general consensus it seems kaplan is indespensable. I hope thatkaplan drills and tests will provide some good practice for quant and it's tough exams will improve my focus.
I hope to take first kaplan test within a week or so. It seems that would be the real test of character.

I have not taken these tests yet,so cannot answer your questions but thanks carckgamt for sharing "musings" info,your progress and doubts. It gives rough idea for those who have not taken the tests yet.

Thanks for your words goalstanford. Yes, it helps me keep track of what's going on and also share my concerns with u guys.
Iam still waiting formy kaplan book and cd rom to arrive. I cant wait any longer to take it's drills and tests. I think , only after i take it's tests and analyze my performance, i will come to know what else needs to be done.
Nowadays iam concenterating on gmat+.
I took 800score test 2 today.
I found math even more easier than last time. Some of the questions were ridiculously easy.. kind of which u find in first 100 questions of PS section in OG. I couldnt solve 2 questions and made one silly error. Scaled score given was 48!!
In this test i scored 35 scaled score in verbal.. last time i had scored 40 with same number of correct answers( I think since today i did more mistakes in first 15 questions.. sofware gave me less score). Again, i found 1-2 cr questions ambiguous and rc's were tough. SC is quite easy. Scoring of both verbal and quant sections is very tough. I think that's the problem in princeton and, probably, kaplan also. These testing comapnies want us to score as low as possible so that we keep going back to them.
Anyhow, I dont take the final scores/scaled scores of these tests very seriously. What I take seriously is how i perform. What kind of questions I miss?.. am i doing silly mistakes or reading questions incorrectly.. are there any conceptual mistakes or am i taking too much time for even easier questions?. I try to finish 10 minutes earlier to improve my speed.

Do you have any idea regarding the difficulty level of crackgmat tests.

Hey praet.. I just saw your edit. Thanks a lot for your words. But frankly speaking I wish I was a tough guy. Iam just trying to follow my dreams and most importantly my instincts.
Well, for a week or so, I wont be participating much on this forum since some friends are coming over at my place and it seems atleast 5-6 days will be devoted to the noble cause of partying and stuff.
I think I need another 20-30 days of rigorous preparation before i sit for my final test. I have been very inconsistent with my study habits and it is certain that unless i pull my socks and really study like hell for these last 20-30 days, my dreams wont be realized
Somewhere I have started gaining confidence. But at the same time feel scared as hell when I imagine myself sitting in front of that damn ETS computer on D day and clicking that final button to see my unofficial score.
I think my SC has certainly improved.. in the latest V study SC tests, which many claim to be quite representative of real one , my errors have reduced from 5-6 out of 22-25 to 1-3 out of 22-25. Iam only practising tough Science RC passages as of now.. and i have managed to decrease my fear of them to some extent.
Maths remain a issue. Iam sure iam around the level of 47 scaled score as of now.. and really have to practice a lot and close loose gaps to reach at 50 scaled score, something i beleive i have the ability to score. I intend to practice quite a bit of maths questions from archives of this site and gmattutor yahoo group.
As soon i resume my preparation, first thing to start will be kaplan section tests/drills in cdrom. I think around a week after that I will take my first kaplan CAT. As i said before that would be the real test of character.
See you guys soon.
cheers

Well guys, Iam back to share my musings. I think this is the final leg of my preparation and I hope to devote another 20-30 days before i take the test.
Finally my kaplan cd rom started working and I had the pleasure of taking it's section tests/drills. I am sure the level of questions here is easier compared to it's CAT tests. Because In my first section tests, i did quite reasonable. I did 21/22 correct in SC test, 14/16 in CR, 14/18 in RC, 18/20 in DS. Also, I managed to finish all these tests, except rc test, 3-5 minutes earlier than the alloted time.
I think RC was brutal.. for 18 questions, time given was 25 minutes..and passages were tough. As always, a science passage talking about rodents and stuff, proved my achilles heel. Out of 4 incorrect, 3 were from this passage.
I think standard of SC was almost comparable to ETS or may be bit easier.
CR was fine except that 1-2 questions had ambiguous wording.
DS was quite good..but unexpectedly i did well than what i thought while i was taking the test. There were some very good number properties questions..
Though I have improved my performance in tough/science RC passages, still i feel that at times i get confused in them. Can anybody suggest any practical way to not to get bogged down by them. As of now, my strategy is to read them carefully, not to get bogged down by too much details, taking note of the organization of passage and if the question demands revert back to find the details. I dont make notes..though try to make mental notes after each paragraph.
Also, what do you guys think about level of section tests in kaplan cd? Are the CAT's very difficult compared to them?
I hope to take first kaplan CAT within 2-3 days provided i get the time to sit for 3-4 hours.
Good wishes for all who are in the same journey.

good luck buddy. keep your cool and take it one question at a time.

as for comparison of kaplan and ETS, kaplan is tougher , much tougher than ETS. It has a great quant section and even the verbal is ok. i have written about practise tests and how they should be use in your prep. if you dont find it, let me know. i will post the link for you.

sorry to keep repeating it, but i never scored more than 590 on kaplan and i ended up with 710. Unless you have serious problems with timing , i wouldnt give too much importance to practise test scores. Sure, taking tests is very important , just dont worry about the scores TOO much.

most guys either get tense, nervous on test day and thats slow down their timing which in turn affects your performance. so we should train ourself to ONLY concentrate on the question in front of you. even if you are 100 percent sure that you got the previous question wrong, dont let it affect the rest of the test. it is often said that when you think that a task is very hard, you should break it down into easy to do small tasks and take it one at a time. i think this will work great on the GMAT.

best wishes
Praetorian

Crackgmat750, this is a fantastic post and I just happened to read it now. Thanks for sharing your progress and this board is mostly indebted to you for your generous contribution.

Thanks praetorian and paul. It's the support and patience of you guys, which has kept me going. I really dont know if I will succeed in my endeavours or not, but being part of this gmatclub community has given me lot of encouragement to pursue my dreams. I owe a lot to you guys. I hope that one day, if destiny permits, I will be able to pay back.

Hello guys
Iam back with my musings. Around a month back i had assumed that after I take my first kaplan CAT , I will come to know if Iam ready for yet another attempt. It is very important for me to be absolutely convinced of acing the exam this time I would hate to get another sub700 score and would prefer not to take it unless Iam dead sure of getting 720 or more.( A 680-720 will also seal the matters although I wont be happy).
Few days back,more than a month of studying from GMAT+, Princeton etc, I started with kaplan CD after . In my last post I discussed about my first brush with kaplan sections tests. I continued with them and 2 days back took second set of section tests. My performance in them was as follows.. 20/22 in SC, 16/16 in CR, 15/16 IN PS and 10/18 in RC!!!! I think I found RC easier this time as compared to what i found last time, but still bombed it because I was more concerned with improving my focuc and understanding of the passages, something which I think I was successful in, but somehow choose lot of close/careless answers rather than corrrect ones.
Anyhow, Finally I took the kaplan CAT 1 today. As I had assumed/predicted/dreaded, It was a test of character indeed.
SCORE I GOT : 630 ( Q45, V 34)
MATHS:
Surely maths was very good. There were some very good questions. Throughout the section, except for 4-5 questions, I was literally on my feet. BUT.... I would like to say it was perfectly manageable.. I wouldnt rate more than 2-3 questions to be extremely difficult in exam conditions.
I think the real GMAT maths is almost as hard as this one , or may be even a bit harder!!!
Again I managed to make some silly errors.( 3-4 of them). My final scaled score was 45.. in total I had 30/37 correct.. 3/10 incorrect in first 10 questions.
Verbal:
No doubt verbal was hard.. BUT again not as hard as I was made to think by some posts. Yes, RC's were brutal.. or I would say toughest I had ever seen, their questions sometimes even tougher than passages,answer choices at times so close and .... what not. All in ALL , RC passages and questions spoiled the party in a big way. Beleive me, ETS passages cant be that tough. Out of total 12 RC questions , which were spread in 4 ugly passages, I did 5 correct and 7 incorrect!!!!!
CR's were of very good standard .. 2-3 were very difficult/ambiguous..but all in all decent and manageable stuff compared to RC section . I had 4 out of 13-14 cr's incorrect.
SC's I found easier than ETS types..only 1-2 were challenging and I got 3 wrong out of almost 14-15. Infact in one question I couldnt even understand the explanation provided.. it talked of some grammar concept which i never saw in any ets sc question.
In verbal I did 8 out of first 10 questions correct which might explain for my reasonable final scaled score, even after significant number of total mistakes.
My timing was quite reasonable.. infact i was going quite fast in first 10-15 questions.. then some middle questions in maths and those ugly RC passages in verbal slowed my pace. I finished maths 7 minutes earlier and verbal 4 minutes earlier.
I think that what makes kaplan harder for people preparing for GMAT is .. difficult maths compared to pp/og stuff ( although it is very comparable to what present GMAT maths is), mind boggling RC's ..some very close/ambiguous CR's and finally very tough scoring .
But I think it is important to understand that one should practice in tough conditions to simulate the testing environment. I think KAPLAN tests give very good practice and I thank people in this board for recommending kaplan for preparation.
Now to something very important. I had promised myself that only if I get average of 650 in first two kaplan tests, I will register for the final GMAT. I know I might be too harsh with myself in asking for this much( when I know that some people who even scored in 720+ range failed to touch 600 in kaplan tests)..but given my past failings, Iam too scared to go to final exam and come back with another 650ish score.So I want total security:)
To have a average of 650 in first two kaplan tests, i need a 670 in second CAT. I dont think that is going to be easy after what I experienced today. I think getting 650+ scores in kaplan CAT's with those kind of RC's and brutal scoring system is going to be a daunting task.
I perfectly understand , as repeated by people here time and again, that one should not look too much into the scores but rather look into the areas to work on.
So what do you experienced guys ( prateorian and all others who have taken the exam), suggest? Do you guys think Iam ready for 700+ score?
If not, what else I need to work on.
For one, I am sure that i need more practice in maths.. I have started doing questions from the archives of this site.
Second, to improve focus and concenteration further, I intend to do around 10 lsat tests for CR and RC. Also, I would continue doing questions from Vstudy.
Thanks for reading all this.. and I would like to hear some honest feedback.

For some days after the last post, I was waiting for some feedback from other members and most importantly from likes of prateorian and BB. But I guess everybody is busy.
Well, I hope to get some response this time.
I took the second kaplan CAT today. I had decided earlier that after the second kaplan test, I will decide if iam prepared to take the exam and most importantly score 700+.
Today's experience with kaplan test was even more horrifying than the last one. Today I didnt even touch 600. Score I got today is :

590 !!! ( q41 v31)
Interestingly, I did almost same number of questions correct as in last one. But I guess since i did more questions incorrect in first few questions..scoring was harsh.
My experience was exactly the same as in last one.
Maths: Not really hard ..except for 3-4 questions. Couple of questions tested concepts which are out of the scope of ETS GMAT syllabus ....one question tested similar triangles concepts..other wanted me to know the surface area of cube..Iam sure both these topics are not specified in OG/PP.
Again, 3-4 silly errors. TOTAL 28 CORRECT.. 9 INCORRECT..SCALED SCORE 41.
Verbal:
I had promised myself this time that I wont give up in RC's easily. But all my determination and effort went in vain as I managed to do 9 out of 12 RC questions incorrect !!!!! Common guys, RC's are not only brutal but the answer choices are so cleverly designed that one is bound to do errors. Infact sometimes they are so hopelessly close that after you read the explanation provided, u want to kill the person who wrote these rc's and their questions. Simply speaking, I dont think I can ever be close to even doing 60-70% of these type of rc questions correct. I mean I do more than 90% correct in OG/GMAT/VSTUDY.. and iam sure real RC's are more closer to that.
One CR was outrightly so dubious that one could sense that kaplan designs these CR's just to make sure that nobody gets all correct in their tests.
1-2 other CR's were close and anybody could err on them. Rest were decent stuff. I think kaplan copies lot of their stuff from old ETS tests..as I could see same pattern as in gmat+/vstudy materials.
It was not my DAY in SC today.. did 5 wrong.. agreed 2 were challenging but other 3 could have been avoided with more focus.
All in all, after my experience with two kaplan tests, i can safely say that getting 700 in these tests would remain a dream.
At the best, if i can avoid silly mistakes and be more careful next time ( something i feel I can), I can get around 660-670 in kaplan's remaining tests..but not more than that.

I think , as in any test, one cannot prepare and practice beyond a point. After that , it becomes useless.
I can sense that my speed in maths has increased to my personal optimum level.. after this it's only a matter of not doing any silly mistakes and cementing the fundamentals in few topics such as prob/comb and geometry. I mean , i cannot go beyond this level.. I think there is some innate talent also.. something which those people have who get 51 in maths. Iam not sure if Iam that smart.. may be my personal best is 48-49
In verbal also..I feel I have done enough practice in SC, CR and Rc passages. Iam sure I cannot do all questions correct in the exam.. I am bound to do couple of questions wrong..but even then I can get a score of 42 or so If I can hold my nerves. I feel I have done enough SC preparation.. after this I can only think of reading a whole grammar book..something which i dont think is needed for GMAT SC.
Now, the question I asked last time..
AM I PREPARED FOR 700+?? ( Q 48+,v 38+)

For reference..
My scores:
princeton 1 and 2.700 and 690
Princeton online ;700
800 score : 680
Doing around 95% correct in CR questions of vstudy.. 90% + correct in RC of vstudy..
Around 80% correct in FEW lsat TESTS in CR section.
Doing around 21/22 correct in kaplan SC section tests..15/16 in CR kap section tests..19/20 in maths.
Kaplan test 1 and 2 : 630 and 590
In the latest gmatclub maths challenge ..ranked 7th with 94 percentile..

I know scores cannot predict everything.. I get confused when I see some people scoring 750+ in real one telling that they didnt even score 630 in any kaplan test ..but at the same time I see some people with sub700 scores claiming that they achieved 650 in kaplan tests..
In short, I dont know if iam prepared for the test.
No doubt, In any case, iam not going to take it within a week..but what iam asking is, should I give a shot within next 30 days?
What else I need to work on?
I intend to keep practicing from remaining princeton tests, kaplan tests.. V study material..and solving maths questions from the archives of this site.
Looking forward to read some insightful comments.

Hey crackgmat

I have said time and again that.. one cant predict anything from practice tests. Never use practise tests as a yardstick for how well you think you will do. Can you predict? Oh yeah, i think 100% of test takers spend a lot of valuable time simply thinking about when to take their next practice test and when to register for the exam. I am telling you from my experience of wasting time on predicting scores that your prediction is simply that; a prediction. You cannot substitute that for the level of concentration and level of preparedness required on test day.

I will tell you one simple thing. You can try to cover all bases in GMAT and you can try to solve every problem that you can possibly find, still the test experience will be different. Your best bet and i say this to every single member who seeks advice is to work on eliminating errors and strengthening concepts. You cannot go wrong in doing these two things together.

When i post a tough question on the Math or Verbal forum, i dont get many replies. it simply is too much for most people. IMHO, that is what differentiates 700+ scorers and 600-650 scorers. Nothing wrong with a 650 , if that is your target score, but one needs to realise that a special score needs special work. Some people are just geniuses and dont need special effort, but most of us need to work smart to make best use of our time.

You say , you are making some errors that can be avoided. Make a note of that. Study it . Eliminate it. Keep working on that., no matter how confident you are. Study these errrors every single day. I cannot emphasize this enough. For example, you see a tough problem on the test. The frustrating part is , you solve the problem , take 5 minutes and make an error in multiplication. Imagine the frustration.

You have to do the tough job here. Did i mention that it is going to take the utmost discipline and dedication to do what i have recommended? why is 710 a 95 percentile. why cant many test takers (including me) go past a 710 .think about that.

if you relax now, you are letting the GMAT win. you want a 700 score , i gave you an idea. its not easy, it does not sound like fun, but try to implement it well in your prep and on test day.

I ask that you think about what i have recommended and see if it works for you.

Hope this helps
Praetorian

Praetorian:
It was an amazing post by you. Yes, eleminating errors and strenghtening concepts are the key. Iam trying to do these. For instance, I still get jittery when i see questions on inequailities mixed with absolute values.. or when I see a tough prob/comb question. But I am really at loss on how to cement concepts such as this. The probability guide given in this site is good for start but I need some practice for real good questions. I know lot are discussed here..but the pattern is very random. Sometimes questions are way beyond the scope of gmat..at times questions are vague and main problem is so many posts that it overwhelms you. I have a recommendation.. If you and your freinds can come up with a guide on challenging GMAT type probability ,explaining concepts and then following with nice questions, and also a guide on other challenging topics such as good geometry question,inequality/abs value/number properties questions.. and so on, It would be great. I dont think you need some new questions..you can screen and edit from lot of questions in this site.. by virtue of your own experiences with GMAT as on what kind of questions are relevant.
You can also charge people for downloading these guides..
Just give a thought.
I will be taking GMAT in a month.
Thanks

i have been reading ur posts for sometime now,u seem to be very obsessed with GMAT.I was like that sometime back.i gave my 100% and everything including my job for this thing called GMAT.I tried all tricks and tips
i scored 590 in kaplan online test
680 in pp1,700 in pp2 ,worked out OG(only verbal) was very happy and confident of the main exam.Quant was my strongest point in fact i never scored below 40 in any test.
This is what happened.
quant section began with some really easy questions and guess what the probability question(q10) which turned up was exactly the same one as i had worked on this site(the prob with profs and students)except it was2 kinds of books from a shelf,my happiness knew no bounds bcoz i had cracked 1st 10 correctly but... the questions which came after that threw me off track.i felt the system wasnt happy with me.the worse part my mind froze to such an extent that i could not solve simple time and fraction problems which appeared later bcoz i was running out of time.

the tension carried to verbal ,this time the computer threw some long SCs in the first 6 questions i started wondering whether i was taking the right test and later the computer decides to get kinder and gave such simple RCs and cRs that just a glance was enough to solve them but i was mentally tired and despite guessing15 questions my score was 37 in verbal.

when i finally completed the test there was this irritating feedback or something which i had to fill up and finally i got a tight slap from the computer.my score was 570.

i lost my mind ,i actually laughed at that moment.

lesson: just dont give too much importance to That moron GMAT.just take it up as any of your practice tests and be prepared to face any kind of unusual questions.be cool bout it .just concentarte on the question in front of you if u r not able to solve it in 2mins just move on it might b a pretesting question dont sacrifice other questions for it.However,pay some attention to 1st 10qs as they r important and the best part is that they r easy ones if u encounter a probablity question then thank god coz it means that u did well on the previous questions.(these questions appear only to those who performed well inthe 1st 7qs)believe me whether u solve it or not just move on u will do well on the others and get a good score this is what i learnt from my experience.

be ready to accept long SCs,RCs and also an Rc at the end when u begin to think u have enough time .

read the rcs casually as u would read these posts and understand them.
i am taking GMAT again next month.this time i am ready to take anything
even a low score.

pls lemme know if PR cd has long SCs i need to work on them.

i am confident u will do well since u have so much experience in GMAT ,being familiar with the test centre and other aspects help
wish u good luck and remember dont ever show that ETS computer that u r scared ,fool that moron .

ash

Ashwini:
Try SC's and CR's from gmat+ and vstudy material. Get kaplan CD also for better quant questions. It is amazing that you got 37 scaled score in verbal in spite of guessing 15 questions!!! Havent heard thing like this before. This means you really bombed quant section. I beleive you got stressed out in the exam.. if you had done first 10 questions correct..this means computer had already almost tested your limits and within next few questions , it would have started giving you normal questions..Questions which could be done
Anyways, best of luck for next time