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My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting)

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My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2009, 09:28
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Based on a discussion going on in this thread: http://gmatclub.com/forum/evaluate-my-profile-pls-77937.html, I thought it'd be interesting for everyone to have an open discussion on the issue of rankings, and provide my experience with it.

PART I: WHAT DO THOSE RANKINGS MEASURE?

The conventional wisdom is that you shouldn't trust rankings blindly, but that somehow there has to be some truth to them. As anyone with research experience knows, the methodology is extremely important, and my experience is that most people looking at rankings do not make the effort to figure out what the "rankers" are actually trying to measure.

Case in point: the Financial Times doctoral program ranking. I've seen it cited so often that I cringe, since this ranking is mostly based on the number of graduates from a PhD program. Big school = good school? Don't think so. Manchester Business School is #1 in the 2008 FT PhD ranking, and Rotterdam School of Business is #4. Rochester is #57, Cornell #63, Yale #65. Very much sounds like crap.

So how should you rank PhD programs? There are plenty of research papers and surveys out there, which I guess you can categorize in two areas based on the two most important tasks someone graduating from a PhD program will have to accomplish (the large majority of PhD graduates stay in academia): teaching and research. There are teaching-oriented papers, mostly reputational surveys, such as Public Accounting Report (mentioned in the above thread). These provide schools that will "produce" the best teachers our of their PhD programs. Whether that is due to the actual quality of the PhD program, or to self-selection, is unclear from those studies. Then there are countless research-oriented papers, looking at a combination of (1) research productivity/impact from past PhD graduates from that school, (2) research productivity/impact from past and/or current faculty at that school, or (3) quality of initial placement of past PhD graduates from that school, where I guess quality of placement is measured by some other factor, usually (2). These rankings will provide evidence as to which PhD programs will "produce" the best researchers. Obviously, these two types of reports measure two very different dimensions of what it means to be a university professor and as such lead to very different top schools.

I would argue that self-selection plays a very important role in the "teaching quality" results of the PAR and others. Suppose you want to become a great teacher. You can be a great teacher at Wharton or at Idaho, so it doesn't really matter where you go to school, so you'll apply for both Georgia (top school for teaching, not good for research) as well as Wharton (top school for both). Suppose someone else wants to become a great researcher. Chances are your training and exposure to top research will be better at top research universities like Wharton than it'll be at Idaho, so he/she'll apply at Wharton, but not Georgia. So the competition at Wharton is tougher than Georgia (I am sure this is a fact as well -- look at, say, the average GMAT score of admitted applicants at both schools), and the people who enroll at (and graduate from) Georgia will be more interested in teaching. So to me it's no surprise that survey evaluating the top PhD programs for producing great teachers are state schools with significant public accounting programs and where learning accounting standards and teaching them properly are highly valued.

I guess my point is that if you're mostly interested in research you should mostly consider the research rankings, and it may be counterproductive to attach too much importance to the teaching rankings.

PART II: IMPERFECT MEASURES = AVERAGE THEM OUT?

It's a fact of econometrics that if you have two observed measures (say, 2 rankings) that are imperfectly correlated with an unobservable characteristic (PhD program quality), you may be able to tease out the noise by averaging them out. This only makes sense if you think the observed measures are shooting for the same unobservable. Taking the example from part I, if you make an average from a teaching ranking and a research ranking you may end up with completely different schools (one that values teaching, the other that values research) with the same score, and you may have a school that's a great teaching school and a terrible research school ahead of another school that's good but not great in both respects.

PART III: MY ACCOUNTING PHD RANKINGS

When I applied to Accounting PhD programs almost 5 years ago, I decided I was interested in both teaching and research, so I wanted to get to the best possible research school to keep my options open (e.g. I could always go to a teaching school after the PhD from a research school, in fact that's what I'm doing right now). Everyone seemed to consider that there was a strong correlation (but still imperfect) between the general reputation of the business school and the quality of its PhD program, so I used the 3 most widely used general b-school rankings (Financial Times, Business Week, USNWR) to create a "general" ranking, along with 3 accounting research papers measuring slightly different dimensions (Robinson and Adler, and 2 Brown and Robinson papers, I didn't note the actual references but could look them up if you wanted) to make a "research" ranking. I then aggregated the 2 rankings for a "school-wide" ranking that went from 0 (worst) to 100 (best). (This poses the problem that I identified in part II, but still may be a start.) Stanford got 100, Wharton 95, Yale 78, Florida 46, U. So. Carolina 25.

Because I was interested in the best PhD programs, not just the best schools, what I did with those school-wide scores is the following. I looked at all accounting faculty members at the top 35 schools according to my ranking, and noted where they got their PhD. That allowed me to rank PhD programs: if a Rochester graduate is now at Stanford, that's 100 points for Rochester. I summed up all those points for everyone in the database (and then everyone who received his/her PhD since 1990). Here are the results:

Best PhD program (overall)
1. Stanford
2. Michigan
3. Chicago
4. UC-Berkeley
5. UT-Austin
6. Cornell
7. Rochester
8. Ohio St.
9. Harvard
10. CMU
11. NYU
12. Illinois (UIUC)
13. Kellogg (Northwestern)
14. Wharton (Penn)
15. Iowa
16. Minnesota
17. Michigan St.
18. Penn St.
19. UNC
20. U.Washington

Best PhD programs (since 1990)
1. Michigan
2. Stanford
3. Chicago
4. Harvard
5. Wharton
6. Cornell
7. UC-Berkeley
8. Rochester
9. NYU
10. Kellogg (Northwestern)
11. Iowa
12. UT-Austin
13. Penn St.
14. Minnesota
15. CMU
16. UNC
17. MIT
18. Columbia
19. U.Washington
20. Illinois (UIUC)

18 schools make both lists.

I guess I could provide the full database if anyone wanted it. Feel free to comment; I never meant this to be scientific in any way, or even published on this forum. I just thought that might be a helpful reference.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2009, 13:06
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great post cabro!

I would like to add a little from my experience in case it might be of some use to future applicants. I was admitted to one of the top 10 programs on the above list, but declined their offer and took a spot at the top Canadian university. After receiving offers from a few very good US universities, I thought my decision would be easy. However, what I learned after visiting some campuses and speaking with various faculty is that at some schools great placements were driven in large part by specific faculty.

The above list mentions Michigan as a top school (which I don't disagree with) however, they have lost Sloan, Dechow (these two are now at UCB), Dichev is leaving for Emory I believe, and some others have left which would bring into questions if Michigan is still a top 5 school for accounting.

Another example is Rochester, which had one of the very best reputations for producing PhD students in the past. But they lost a KEY member, Ross Watts, who was involved with many of the previous successful students' dissertations. They have also lost several other top ranked faculty in addition to Watts. So would they now be considered a top 10 school for accounting?

I guess my point is that rankings can be helpful when narrowing down a list and I think that in general the list that cabro has complied is probably a pretty reasonable approximation of the top programs. But given how important key faculty members are at placing students, one must be mindful of this when assessing the rankings. So very recent placements should probably be considered when making an assessment.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 27 Apr 2009, 08:49
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air1980 wrote:
I would like to add a little from my experience in case it might be of some use to future applicants. I was admitted to one of the top 10 programs on the above list, but declined their offer and took a spot at the top Canadian university. After receiving offers from a few very good US universities, I thought my decision would be easy. However, what I learned after visiting some campuses and speaking with various faculty is that at some schools great placements were driven in large part by specific faculty.

The above list mentions Michigan as a top school (which I don't disagree with) however, they have lost Sloan, Dechow (these two are now at UCB), Dichev is leaving for Emory I believe, and some others have left which would bring into questions if Michigan is still a top 5 school for accounting.

Another example is Rochester, which had one of the very best reputations for producing PhD students in the past. But they lost a KEY member, Ross Watts, who was involved with many of the previous successful students' dissertations. They have also lost several other top ranked faculty in addition to Watts. So would they now be considered a top 10 school for accounting?


Great points -- to me it only emphasizes much more the need to take rankings as some kind of "first pass" and then look at who you would like to/could work with. The Rochester example especially resonated with me -- it was one of the schools I applied to (and was admitted at) but I learned that Ross Watts was leaving from himself, during the campus visit, when he was still at Rochester. I ended up going someplace else.

This is actually a good segue into the converse of your comment -- schools may not be on the list or may be ranked quite low but may still be the best places to go to because of the people who are there now. MIT's current reputation is right up there with, or very close to, Stanford and Wharton despite my ranking (and others) because of people like Kothari and Watts. UC-Berkeley was slipping and might have come off the charts but the arrival of Sloan and Dechow have greatly restored its status.

jamtam2000 wrote:
I think the list provided by cabro is quite to the point and includes the most important universities in accounting. The only thing, which I find strange, is the absence of Texas A&M from the list. To be honest my knowledge about this university is very limited however this university is listed as no.1 for phd in the public accounting report (2007 survey).


As another poster said, you may indeed have mixed up Texas A&M and UT-Austin. However, the broader point I made in my original post was that one needs to be careful about specific surveys such as Public Accounting Report as it seems to have a bias toward teaching and accounting standards or standard setting. Now, having a bias is fine but that report shouldn't be your 'master list' if you're primarily looking at research or want to keep the most possible options open. The 2008 report has UIUC at #6, Georgia #11, USC #12, Mississippi #15, Oklahoma State #16, Texas A&M #18, Missouri-Columbia #19, South Carolina #22, Florida State #23 and South Florida #25, none of which made my list of the top 20 PhD programs since 1990, except for UIUC which I put at #20. Whether my ranking is better or worse than that is beside the point -- the point is to know how the lists you are using have been constructed and what they intend to measure.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2009, 06:05
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gmatprep09 wrote:
Cabro......thanks for starting this post and is really quite informative.

I aspire to do Phd in Accounting and was looking for some sources of information. I have my undergraduate degree in Physics and Mathematics and then have done graduation in Finance. I worked for 8 years in corporate finance and the last 1.5 years in the field of accounting. It's then that I thought that I would really be interested in research with a formal program and hence looking to apply to universities.

I was told by people that one must contact professors before applying but my experience has been that the response from them is not much, which is strange. I have my interests in various areas and so am flexible to do my research with professors having different interests. The question I had was that, do I need a solid topic to pitch even before I apply? Do you need to have a backup plan as far as the area and further a research topic in that area is concerned? How do i approach the professors before applying? How do I figure out how is the process of match between a research candidate and a professor?

I have written 2 research papers (one in science and another in accounting) which have been presented in conferences but havent had the time to look for publishing the same. So, would this help in my application?

I have yet to give my GMAT score but am pretty jittery about it.
I would be nice to have some guidance and advice so that I can make a systematic approach to the applicaiton process.

Thanks.


This may be more appropriate in a separate thread. At any rate --

1) Contacting professors -- I did send an email to 1-2 professors at each school I was planning to apply to (sometime between November and January). My response rate was about 50%, including one-liners. I think the low response rate is due to the fact that those professors have a lot to do and actually receive quite a few frivolous proposals in addition to more reasonable ones (even I once had a student from Ghana come to me with an offer that his government may be able to finance my future research if I helped him get accepted in the same PhD program). All those who answered my queries were at universities where I either (a) subsequently got an offer, or (b) ended up not applying. I can't say how/whether contacting those professors helped, but you definitely would be able to get info such as "don't bother applying here if you want to work for me, I'm leaving". So I don't think that can hurt.

2) As for "fit" (or match) between a candidate and a professor, you can't tell for sure. The best way is probably to go through the professors' recent research interests and decide what you think is interesting. Unless you know people at that particular school, you probably won't know whether a particular professor is fun to work with.

3) As to how specific your topic needs to be, you don't want to be too specific. The most reasonable pitch could be something like "I'd like to study the effect of earnings management on the stock market", while making clear that the specific topic and hypotheses are undetermined. If you have your topic already, what good is a dissertation advisor? On the other hand, you don't want to say something like "I don't care whether I study corporate finance or accounting" because that's too broad and may suggest you have no clue at all.

4) Having written and presented papers is pretty good. Having made no efforts to publish them does not matter, and may actually be good because if it's a good subject, faculty members may be able to help you improve the paper and end up (a) getting it published in a much better journal, (b) have their name on it, (c) get that publication while you're a PhD student at their school, which is very good for them. So to have those papers ready is the real plus on your application.

5) GMAT/application process -- do the best you can on the GMAT, which implies extremely serious preparation. You need to know what the question types are and know how to answer them efficiently. I had a good score when I wrote it 5 years ago (760) and attribute most of it to efficient preparation, not actual skill/ability. As to the application process, you need to decide whether you want to go to a top school where completing the program is even more difficult than getting in, or go to a place like Rutgers, which will be easier to get into, not as tough to complete without being useless (e.g. you'll still get enough to be able to publish some good research), but which will ruin any possibility of getting a job at Chicago or Wharton. As for more specifics, you might want to browse this forum, as some topics have been discussed time and time again.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2009, 09:03
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gmatprep09 wrote:
Thanks Cabro for replying to my post.........appreciate the information. Would you mind me asking where are you currently doing your Phd from?
thanks


I'm at a top 20-25 (overall, better in accounting) research university in the Northeast. I'm not sure I can get much more specific in a public forum (unless I have been in the past, haha).
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 27 Jun 2009, 06:01
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Can the people provide some background on the PhD app process. I applied to top 25 programs (per the Accounting Report) in 2008 and no dice (2.5 years exp, 610 gmat and 3.5 accounting + econ)

Now I'm at 4.5 years exp (will be at 5.5 by the time fall 2010 comes around) and scored a 710 on the GMAT (apps for 2010 school year).

The schools I'm planning on applying to (as of now):
UT Austin
U Michigan
U Chicago
Wharton
U Washington
MSU
HBS

Thanks,
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 29 Jun 2009, 06:13
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mohater wrote:
Can the people provide some background on the PhD app process. I applied to top 25 programs (per the Accounting Report) in 2008 and no dice (2.5 years exp, 610 gmat and 3.5 accounting + econ)

Now I'm at 4.5 years exp (will be at 5.5 by the time fall 2010 comes around) and scored a 710 on the GMAT (apps for 2010 school year).

The schools I'm planning on applying to (as of now):
UT Austin
U Michigan
U Chicago
Wharton
U Washington
MSU
HBS

Thanks,


Your 710 GMAT score will put you on the radar at many more respectable schools than 610. Work experience doesn't really matter (in terms of # of years anyway); if you worked in auditing it may give you something that most PhD applicants do not have, as most of them come straight out of college/grad school.

Where's your undergrad degree from? Do you have a MAcc or some other grad school diploma? That's probably more relevant than the 3.5 GPA per se.

It's very tough to get an offer from all schools on your list, except perhaps MSU. You pretty much need to be an all-star or close to it to get into Chicago, Wharton or HBS, and while 710 is fine, it's not going to give you something that the others don't. Of course it depends on where you're prepared to go, but you can probably to better than MSU if you get OK recommendations and can write a good SOP.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 30 Jun 2009, 05:29
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mohater wrote:
cabro57 wrote:
Your 710 GMAT score will put you on the radar at many more respectable schools than 610. Work experience doesn't really matter (in terms of # of years anyway); if you worked in auditing it may give you something that most PhD applicants do not have, as most of them come straight out of college/grad school.

Where's your undergrad degree from? Do you have a MAcc or some other grad school diploma? That's probably more relevant than the 3.5 GPA per se.

It's very tough to get an offer from all schools on your list, except perhaps MSU. You pretty much need to be an all-star or close to it to get into Chicago, Wharton or HBS, and while 710 is fine, it's not going to give you something that the others don't. Of course it depends on where you're prepared to go, but you can probably to better than MSU if you get OK recommendations and can write a good SOP.


Thanks for the response.

I don't have a Masters, only a BA in Accounting and a BA in Economics. Both of my undergrad degrees are from Michigan State. By the time interviews roll around, I'll have ~two years of internal auditing at a manufacturing company.

I'm fairly certain my letters of rec will be rock solid, as two of them will come from people at Michigan State (both in the accounting dept. I was very active as an undergrad with the dept, and have been very active in campus recruiting since graduating), and the third will come from a former team leader at work (she can write about my contributions to the department, process improvement, etc.).

The schools I'm most interested in acceptance are: Michigan, Washington, and Austin. MSU is sort of the school I like/safety school. Chicago/HBS/Wharton are the dream team schools.


With that profile and at those schools, I think you should get some consideration, but I'm not sure if that's enough because you have not done any graduate work yet. I think it'd help if you could sign up for a few graduate Econ courses (Micro, Econometrics, Game Theory), at MSU for example (I'm assuming you still live in that area). As I said, the 710 GMAT is OK but there will be plenty of other candidates in that range.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 02 Jul 2009, 06:50
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mohater wrote:
cabro57 wrote:

With that profile and at those schools, I think you should get some consideration, but I'm not sure if that's enough because you have not done any graduate work yet. I think it'd help if you could sign up for a few graduate Econ courses (Micro, Econometrics, Game Theory), at MSU for example (I'm assuming you still live in that area). As I said, the 710 GMAT is OK but there will be plenty of other candidates in that range.


The problem is the closest University with said graduate classes is either 30 or 90 miles away...

I always opted for the more difficult Econ classes when it came to the optional classes (undergrad level) (Advanced Micro (calc based), (Poli Sci) Game Theory, Econometrics, Economics of Labor, Economics of Transport, etc.). So I have an intro into some of the more advanced/theory based topics.

I guess I'm going to have to give it a go for the grad apps. If nothing pans out, then I will probably sign up for some grad classes.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Edit: Cabro: Given my background, can you suggest some "safety schools" for me?


"Safety" is kind of a loaded word but I guess you'd stand a chance at places like UIUC (Illinois), Indiana, Ohio State, Iowa.. all these places (and many more) have at least a few reputable professors. The smartest way of looking for a good school where you want to have a good chance of getting an offer is to look at accounting departments' websites and check the faculty members' resumes, and see where their research is getting published. The best ones have had a few recent (less than 3-5 years) articles published in Journal of Accounting and Economics, Journal of Accounting Research, The Accounting Review, Journal of Finance and Journal of Financial Economics.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2009, 18:06
Great information!
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2009, 19:01
What a great post!!
Thank you so much.

I am the one who is dreaming to be an accounting professor.
But my great barrier is GMAT. I am not a test taker.

Can I ask some questions about how to pursue the PhD program?
Do I need a lot of work experience to apply for the program?
My plan is that I am going to do my master's and then doctoral program.
However, I only have one year work experience.
I quited my job in 2007 and came to the US to study English.(I'm international student)
It means there is a hole in my cv from 2008 till now . And my GMAT is not getting better yet.
What is the best thing to do for now?

Thank you so much in advance
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2009, 23:53
I think the list provided by cabro is quite to the point and includes the most important universities in accounting. The only thing, which I find strange, is the absence of Texas A&M from the list. To be honest my knowledge about this university is very limited however this university is listed as no.1 for phd in the public accounting report (2007 survey).
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2009, 08:24
I could be wrong, but my guess is that you are mixing TAM with UT Austin.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2009, 17:41
Cabro......thanks for starting this post and is really quite informative.

I aspire to do Phd in Accounting and was looking for some sources of information. I have my undergraduate degree in Physics and Mathematics and then have done graduation in Finance. I worked for 8 years in corporate finance and the last 1.5 years in the field of accounting. It's then that I thought that I would really be interested in research with a formal program and hence looking to apply to universities.

I was told by people that one must contact professors before applying but my experience has been that the response from them is not much, which is strange. I have my interests in various areas and so am flexible to do my research with professors having different interests. The question I had was that, do I need a solid topic to pitch even before I apply? Do you need to have a backup plan as far as the area and further a research topic in that area is concerned? How do i approach the professors before applying? How do I figure out how is the process of match between a research candidate and a professor?

I have written 2 research papers (one in science and another in accounting) which have been presented in conferences but havent had the time to look for publishing the same. So, would this help in my application?

I have yet to give my GMAT score but am pretty jittery about it.
I would be nice to have some guidance and advice so that I can make a systematic approach to the applicaiton process.

Thanks.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2009, 10:27
Thanks Cabro for replying to my post.........appreciate the information. Would you mind me asking where are you currently doing your Phd from?
thanks
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 30 Jun 2009, 03:12
cabro57 wrote:
Your 710 GMAT score will put you on the radar at many more respectable schools than 610. Work experience doesn't really matter (in terms of # of years anyway); if you worked in auditing it may give you something that most PhD applicants do not have, as most of them come straight out of college/grad school.

Where's your undergrad degree from? Do you have a MAcc or some other grad school diploma? That's probably more relevant than the 3.5 GPA per se.

It's very tough to get an offer from all schools on your list, except perhaps MSU. You pretty much need to be an all-star or close to it to get into Chicago, Wharton or HBS, and while 710 is fine, it's not going to give you something that the others don't. Of course it depends on where you're prepared to go, but you can probably to better than MSU if you get OK recommendations and can write a good SOP.


Thanks for the response.

I don't have a Masters, only a BA in Accounting and a BA in Economics. Both of my undergrad degrees are from Michigan State. By the time interviews roll around, I'll have ~two years of internal auditing at a manufacturing company.

I'm fairly certain my letters of rec will be rock solid, as two of them will come from people at Michigan State (both in the accounting dept. I was very active as an undergrad with the dept, and have been very active in campus recruiting since graduating), and the third will come from a former team leader at work (she can write about my contributions to the department, process improvement, etc.).

The schools I'm most interested in acceptance are: Michigan, Washington, and Austin. MSU is sort of the school I like/safety school. Chicago/HBS/Wharton are the dream team schools.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 30 Jun 2009, 06:44
cabro57 wrote:

With that profile and at those schools, I think you should get some consideration, but I'm not sure if that's enough because you have not done any graduate work yet. I think it'd help if you could sign up for a few graduate Econ courses (Micro, Econometrics, Game Theory), at MSU for example (I'm assuming you still live in that area). As I said, the 710 GMAT is OK but there will be plenty of other candidates in that range.


The problem is the closest University with said graduate classes is either 30 or 90 miles away...

I always opted for the more difficult Econ classes when it came to the optional classes (undergrad level) (Advanced Micro (calc based), (Poli Sci) Game Theory, Econometrics, Economics of Labor, Economics of Transport, etc.). So I have an intro into some of the more advanced/theory based topics.

I guess I'm going to have to give it a go for the grad apps. If nothing pans out, then I will probably sign up for some grad classes.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Edit: Cabro: Given my background, can you suggest some "safety schools" for me?
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 27 Jan 2010, 21:57
I was wondering if you had updated your rankings recently (ie, looking at placements over the last 5-10 yrs, instead of since 1990). For example, it seems UNC should be a lot higher on your list. If you look at their recent placements, they might be more like a top 5-10 school. I may be biased, but it seems to me, based on recent placements (Chicago, Michigan, Wharton, Tuck, Duke..) that students should seriously consider UNC if they are looking to be placed at a top research university. Any thoughts?
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 01 Feb 2010, 13:30
greeneyeshades wrote:
I was wondering if you had updated your rankings recently (ie, looking at placements over the last 5-10 yrs, instead of since 1990). For example, it seems UNC should be a lot higher on your list. If you look at their recent placements, they might be more like a top 5-10 school. I may be biased, but it seems to me, based on recent placements (Chicago, Michigan, Wharton, Tuck, Duke..) that students should seriously consider UNC if they are looking to be placed at a top research university. Any thoughts?


I haven't updated my rankings, and doubt I'll ever find the time to do so; however we can expect some schools went up and others down.

As far as UNC, you may well be right; I was surprised at how low it was in the first place. On the other hand, just looking at the past 5-10 years can help identify trends but also largely limits the sample size -- in my initial rankings, only 5 schools had 10 or more people who both (i) graduated 1990 or later from that school and (ii) were still teaching in the 35 top schools. Going back to the past 5 years instead would be almost meaningless with those numbers.
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Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting) [#permalink] New post 04 Feb 2010, 05:41
Hi! I found your topic and was amazed how you divided Phd programs into two groups "teaching oriented" and "research oriented", and actually third "teaching-research".
I am browsing almost every day through PhD's websites. But is really hard to find which program or which school more "teaching" than "research". All of them trying to show to prospective students "OUR PhD is for that who willing to do RESEARCH"!!!)))) Even if it is not true.
You mentioned Georgia as a top school for teaching-not research. Could you please, give more schools like this one. Or just explain how I can search for them. May be some "hidden" criteria :wink:
Re: My experience with doctoral rankings (especially accounting)   [#permalink] 04 Feb 2010, 05:41
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