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Northwestern (Kellogg)

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Northwestern (Kellogg) [#permalink] New post 23 Jan 2005, 13:59
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We begin our tour of the US ultra elites with Northwestern University (Kellogg).

The Chicago Economic Area is the fourth largest in the US in terms of personal income.

FT 2005 ranks Northwestern #11 worldwide and #9 in the US.
Its ranks in 2004 and 2003 were similar. In FT 2003, it was ranked just below NYU and just above MIT. In 2001 and 2002, all of the other ultra elites enjoyed higher ranks than Northwestern (contrast with BW ranking below).

EIU 2004 ranks Northwestern #1 in the world.

BW 2004 ranks Northwestern #1 in the US. From 1988 though 2004 the lowest showing for Northwestern has been #3. The 2004 ranking is the fifth time Northwestern was #1 for BW (Penn has received "only" 4 #1 rankings by BW).

http://www.kellogg.nwu.edu/admissions/p ... earmba.htm

http://www.kellogg.nwu.edu/admissions/apply/index.htm

Last edited by Hjort on 26 Jan 2005, 17:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Northwestern (Kellogg) [#permalink] New post 09 May 2008, 15:11
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As a current student at Kellogg, I'd like to offer some inside (and, inevitably, biased) insights on our supposed weakness in finance, relative to schools like Wharton, Columbia and Chicago GSB.

We're obviously proud of our top reputation in marketing, but we're also a bit tired of the notion that if you want to do finance, you're better off going somewhere else. In fact, many here argue that our strength in finance is a well-kept secret in the MBA world.

On the academic side, Kellogg professors won one of the highest number of prizes (compared to other schools) for their articles in the Journal of Finance, one of the most prestigious finance publications. Robert McDonald's book on Derivatives Markets is considered the industry standard and is used in top business schools around the world. Other faculty includes people who have run PE / VC funds, or have held senior positions at bulge bracket firms. No weakness there.

On the recruiting side, Wall Street is incredibly receptive of Kellogg students, partly because we have a reputation for working well in teams, which, let's face it, is not what the average banker is known for. The feedback we get from Wall Street recruiters is that they'd love more Kellogg students, but since so few are interested in that career field, recruiting them is difficult. The students that do pursue a banking career (not me by the way), and in fact many of my first-year friends, are going to all the right places on Wall Street and in London.

The finance caliber of our students is nothing to be ashamed of -- we do remarkably well in b-school finance competitions. Kellogg placed first in the 2008 Wharton MBA Buyout Case Competition, ahead of Wharton, HBS and Chicago GSB. Months ago we placed second in the Cornell MBA Stock Pitch Competition, ahead of Wharton, Columbia, and Chicago GSB. Last year we placed first in that same competition. In 2007 we won the Evergreen Investments Alpha Challenge, beating LBS, Chicago GSB, Columbia and others. Kellogg and Chicago GSB compete every year in the JPMorgan M&A Challenge, and Kellogg has won six of the past nine years. I cannot find weakness there.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm sure other schools can also drum up lists of impressive accomplishments and credentials, and I'm not trying to prove that we're better in any way. I just think it's hard to justify the claim that our finance program is 'weaker'. I would argue that we're right there at the top, it's just that that's not what we're known for.

Which leads me to the actual recruiting process. Anyone who has gone through recruiting at a top business school knows the mixed blessing of recruiting events. Yes, you get the opportunity to network to try and secure an interview, but so do your classmates. Students always ask recruiters how to maximize their chances of getting an interview, and the answer, invariably, is "be memorable". And that's where Kellogg starts to be a pleasant place. It's easier to be "memorable" among 50 students (which is roughly how many people recruit for banking at Kellogg), than it is among 150-200 students, which is closer to the number at the traditional finance schools. One of our finance professors, David Stowell, puts it like this: would you rather be a small fish in a big pond, or a big fish in a small pond?

This phenomenon is arguably even more profound in the actual interviewing process. Since banks can usually hire less people than they consider 'hireable', you have to outperform your peers if you want to land that job at Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. At Kellogg you're competing against mostly career switchers with limited finance experience (banks love career switchers by the way), whereas at the more traditional finance schools you'll find more people with prior banking experience or who live and breathe to become a banker. Who would you rather compete with?

Then you have the effect of competition between schools for spots at the big banks. Sure, the traditional finance schools will fill plenty of spots every year, but banks want diversity in their teams and if they can hire one more person, it can be beneficial to be the potential second Kellogg hire as opposed to being the potential tenth hire from Columbia, Wharton, etc.

Again, I'm not arguing that these schools don't deserve their stellar finance reputations, and if you want to work on Wall Street there's no doubt that those schools are very safe choices. But, I do think that Kellogg sometimes gets dismissed way too easily as 'not a finance school'.

Note that, by the same logic, you could argue that if it's good to be the 'underdog banker' at Kellogg, it would be equally beneficial to be the 'underdog marketer' at for example Wharton -- and I would say that's true. I'm sure that Wharton is an excellent place to do marketing, and that your chances of landing a good marketing job are just as good at Wharton as they are at Kellogg. I would argue that there is very little difference between the top schools in this regard. Don't dismiss Wharton if you want to do marketing, and don't dismiss Kellogg if you want to do finance.

Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents. As you can probably tell I'm very excited about Kellogg, and think it's an excellent school, whatever your career goals are.
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Re: Northwestern (Kellogg) [#permalink] New post 04 Aug 2008, 07:42
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From what I have been told it is very easy to complete both management majors. The majors only have 3 or 4 course requirements and some overlap for different majors. I wouldnt worry so much about majors but about taking the classes you want. No matter what you will complete a major or two, a lot of people do 3 or 4. A major in an MBA is not as important as it is in undergrad. You are much better off taking classes you really want and that will be a benefit to your future career. However, you definitely should choose one major that directly relates to your career and make sure you complete it. Marketing, Finance, Strategy, etc...depending on what you want to do.
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Re: Northwestern (Kellogg) [#permalink] New post 20 Oct 2008, 03:13
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larzke wrote:
As a current student at Kellogg, I'd like to offer some inside (and, inevitably, biased) insights on our supposed weakness in finance, relative to schools like Wharton, Columbia and Chicago GSB.

We're obviously proud of our top reputation in marketing, but we're also a bit tired of the notion that if you want to do finance, you're better off going somewhere else. In fact, many here argue that our strength in finance is a well-kept secret in the MBA world.

On the academic side, Kellogg professors won one of the highest number of prizes (compared to other schools) for their articles in the Journal of Finance, one of the most prestigious finance publications. Robert McDonald's book on Derivatives Markets is considered the industry standard and is used in top business schools around the world. Other faculty includes people who have run PE / VC funds, or have held senior positions at bulge bracket firms. No weakness there.

On the recruiting side, Wall Street is incredibly receptive of Kellogg students, partly because we have a reputation for working well in teams, which, let's face it, is not what the average banker is known for. The feedback we get from Wall Street recruiters is that they'd love more Kellogg students, but since so few are interested in that career field, recruiting them is difficult. The students that do pursue a banking career (not me by the way), and in fact many of my first-year friends, are going to all the right places on Wall Street and in London.

The finance caliber of our students is nothing to be ashamed of -- we do remarkably well in b-school finance competitions. Kellogg placed first in the 2008 Wharton MBA Buyout Case Competition, ahead of Wharton, HBS and Chicago GSB. Months ago we placed second in the Cornell MBA Stock Pitch Competition, ahead of Wharton, Columbia, and Chicago GSB. Last year we placed first in that same competition. In 2007 we won the Evergreen Investments Alpha Challenge, beating LBS, Chicago GSB, Columbia and others. Kellogg and Chicago GSB compete every year in the JPMorgan M&A Challenge, and Kellogg has won six of the past nine years. I cannot find weakness there.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm sure other schools can also drum up lists of impressive accomplishments and credentials, and I'm not trying to prove that we're better in any way. I just think it's hard to justify the claim that our finance program is 'weaker'. I would argue that we're right there at the top, it's just that that's not what we're known for.

Which leads me to the actual recruiting process. Anyone who has gone through recruiting at a top business school knows the mixed blessing of recruiting events. Yes, you get the opportunity to network to try and secure an interview, but so do your classmates. Students always ask recruiters how to maximize their chances of getting an interview, and the answer, invariably, is "be memorable". And that's where Kellogg starts to be a pleasant place. It's easier to be "memorable" among 50 students (which is roughly how many people recruit for banking at Kellogg), than it is among 150-200 students, which is closer to the number at the traditional finance schools. One of our finance professors, David Stowell, puts it like this: would you rather be a small fish in a big pond, or a big fish in a small pond?

This phenomenon is arguably even more profound in the actual interviewing process. Since banks can usually hire less people than they consider 'hireable', you have to outperform your peers if you want to land that job at Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. At Kellogg you're competing against mostly career switchers with limited finance experience (banks love career switchers by the way), whereas at the more traditional finance schools you'll find more people with prior banking experience or who live and breathe to become a banker. Who would you rather compete with?

Then you have the effect of competition between schools for spots at the big banks. Sure, the traditional finance schools will fill plenty of spots every year, but banks want diversity in their teams and if they can hire one more person, it can be beneficial to be the potential second Kellogg hire as opposed to being the potential tenth hire from Columbia, Wharton, etc.

Again, I'm not arguing that these schools don't deserve their stellar finance reputations, and if you want to work on Wall Street there's no doubt that those schools are very safe choices. But, I do think that Kellogg sometimes gets dismissed way too easily as 'not a finance school'.

Note that, by the same logic, you could argue that if it's good to be the 'underdog banker' at Kellogg, it would be equally beneficial to be the 'underdog marketer' at for example Wharton -- and I would say that's true. I'm sure that Wharton is an excellent place to do marketing, and that your chances of landing a good marketing job are just as good at Wharton as they are at Kellogg. I would argue that there is very little difference between the top schools in this regard. Don't dismiss Wharton if you want to do marketing, and don't dismiss Kellogg if you want to do finance.

Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents. As you can probably tell I'm very excited about Kellogg, and think it's an excellent school, whatever your career goals are.



really good thread.....i absolutely support your point that don't dismiss Wharton if you want to do marketing, and don't dismiss Kellogg if you want to do finance.

I am planning to apply to Kellogg but i didn't know that it's been preferred by career switchers; i am looking for a career switch post my 1yr MBA. Currently, i am into branding and marketing and would like to move into I banking.

Thanks a lot for info!
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 [#permalink] New post 24 Jan 2005, 19:40
Other schools to consider if you are attracted to Northwestern:

Michigan is also strong in marketing and located in the midwest

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 [#permalink] New post 25 Jan 2005, 12:37
c. 1996 Northwestern had the fifth highest gross increment among the ultra elites and the third highest gross margin.

c. 2002 Northwestern had the second highest gross margin among the ultra elites.
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 [#permalink] New post 25 Jan 2005, 14:22
Northwestern shows how GMAT score and matriculation are not independent. Based on contingency table analysis, the odds of an applicant in the above 740 group enrolling is is nearly twice the odds of an applicant in the sub650 group enrolling. This almost certainly understates the odds ratio of acceptance since students with lower admissions attributes tend to be more likely to accept an offer from a highly selective school.
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jan 2005, 20:42
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 [#permalink] New post 03 Feb 2005, 17:49
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 [#permalink] New post 04 Feb 2005, 01:39
Some insight into the philosophy of the Northwestern Kellogg program-

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/new ... 0329ft.htm
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 [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2005, 22:24
Exec Bios

CEOs: Campbell Soup, Auto Zone, Mattel, Northern Trust, General Dynamics (Law)

http://www.allstate.com/Media/Executive ... Wilson.htm

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/ ... =en&s=corp

Last edited by Hjort on 29 Oct 2005, 01:42, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 28 Apr 2005, 15:58
Value Considerations

Estimated Outlay at List: 121k

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/fin ... lcosts.htm

FT05 Value For Money: #100, #7 among ultraelites
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 [#permalink] New post 21 May 2005, 21:37
Approximate Admissions Data for Kellogg 2003

Sub650: 5% of applicants accepted

650-690: 14% of applicants accepted

700-740: 20% of applicants accepted

Above740: 24% of applicants accepted

NB: Kellogg's official releases show somewhat different values acceptance rates. For instance, they assert that the acceptance rate for 650-690 applicants was more than 15%.

From these data, higher GMAT scores are clearly associated with a higher chance of acceptance. Note how students with scores of 700 or higher are far more likely to be accepted than those with GMAT below 650 (the odds ratio of Sub650/Above690 is approximately 4.7).

Approximate yield data show the typical pattern (accepted students with lower qualifications are more likely to enroll)

Sub650: 74% of accepted enroll
650-690: 72% of accepted students enroll
700-740: 62%
Above740: 57%
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Jun 2005, 09:12
:? How is the quality of their post MBA progroms.
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 [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2005, 16:01
Which post-MBA programs?
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 [#permalink] New post 24 Jun 2005, 09:15
NW is good for consulting, but not that good for Finance, especially IB, right?
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Jun 2005, 07:19
I meant their doctoral program?
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Jun 2005, 13:46
DLMD,

Northwestern is often ranked among the top dozen programs for finance. It is not nearly as strong in finance as it is in Marketing but then again it is perhaps the very best school in that field. Northwestern is not as strong as its fellow ultraelites such as Penn and Chicago when it comes to finance, but few schools are.

http://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=16812
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 [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2005, 19:04
How is Northwestern's MMM program compared to LFM (MIT)?
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 [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2005, 22:24
As I recall MIT has a longer internship and includes a thesis requirement. MIT allows students to apply through the business school or through the engineering school whereas MMM goes through Kellogg.

The annual enrollment for LFM and MMM combined is less than 100 students.
  [#permalink] 17 Sep 2005, 22:24
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