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Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial

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Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 11 Nov 2013, 09:18
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Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

A. Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

B. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.

C. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if they carry a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.

D. Not every woman, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

E. Not all women, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, considered a serious risk factor for that cancer.


oe to follow
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 11 Nov 2013, 16:33
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avohden wrote:
Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

A. Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.
B. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.
C. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if they carry a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.
D. Not every woman, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.
E. Not all women, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, considered a serious risk factor for that cancer.

Dear avohden,
I'm happy to help with this one.

Split #1: SV Agreement with indefinite pronouns. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/gmat-sente ... agreement/
The phrase "every woman" is singular, and demands the singular verb "wants".
The phrase "all women" is plural, and demands the plural verb "want".
Choices (C) & (D) make SV Agreement errors, so they are wrong.

Split #2: pronoun agreement with indefinite pronouns.
The phrase "every woman" is singular, and demands the singular pronoun "she".
The phrase "all women" is plural, and demands the plural pronoun "they".
Choices (B) & (D) make pronoun agreement errors, so they are wrong.

Just with those two, that's enough to isolate (A) as the only possible answer.

What's intriguing about this sentence is that it has all kinds of splits that are not really relevant to the question --- ultimately, false splits, because either way is correct.
(1) We could say this statement about "every woman" or "all women", and as long as verbs & pronouns match, it would be fine.
(2) Either "even those" or "even ones" is perfectly correct.
(3) Two options for modifying the mutation:
"...a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer." ---- an appositive phrase; see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... e-phrases/
"...a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancerr." --- a subordinate clause, acting as noun modifier. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... d-clauses/
The first might be a tad wordier, but both are grammatically correct and sound natural.
Good tempting false splits are the sign of a very well written SC problem.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 12 Nov 2013, 09:06
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mikemcgarry wrote:
avohden wrote:
Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

A. Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.
B. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.
C. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if they carry a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.
D. Not every woman, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.
E. Not all women, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, considered a serious risk factor for that cancer.

Dear avohden,
I'm happy to help with this one.

Split #1: SV Agreement with indefinite pronouns. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/gmat-sente ... agreement/
The phrase "every woman" is singular, and demands the singular verb "wants".
The phrase "all women" is plural, and demands the plural verb "want".
Choices (C) & (D) make SV Agreement errors, so they are wrong.

Split #2: pronoun agreement with indefinite pronouns.
The phrase "every woman" is singular, and demands the singular pronoun "she".
The phrase "all women" is plural, and demands the plural pronoun "they".
Choices (B) & (D) make pronoun agreement errors, so they are wrong.

Just with those two, that's enough to isolate (A) as the only possible answer.

What's intriguing about this sentence is that it has all kinds of splits that are not really relevant to the question --- ultimately, false splits, because either way is correct.
(1) We could say this statement about "every woman" or "all women", and as long as verbs & pronouns match, it would be fine.
(2) Either "even those" or "even ones" is perfectly correct.
(3) Two options for modifying the mutation:
"...a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer." ---- an appositive phrase; see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... e-phrases/
"...a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancerr." --- a subordinate clause, acting as noun modifier. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... d-clauses/
The first might be a tad wordier, but both are grammatically correct and sound natural.
Good tempting false splits are the sign of a very well written SC problem.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hi Mike,

There is something I quite don't get in the correct sentence.

As you said, "not every woman" is singular. But then, when it comes to specify the "singular" woman, the sentence use "those". Is it logical to refer back to a singular noun with "those"?
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 12 Nov 2013, 12:33
avohden wrote:
Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

A. Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

B. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.

C. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if they carry a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.

D. Not every woman, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

E. Not all women, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, considered a serious risk factor for that cancer.


oe to follow


In this one, I did not know if "Not every woman was" was correct or not.
But I find it right in less than 2 minutes.

This was my process:

A. Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer. - Correct

B. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer. - She is not correct because sentence is plural

C. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if they carry a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer. -They is not correct because sentence is singular

D. Not every woman, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer. She is not correct because sentence is plural

E. Not all women, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, considered a serious risk factor for that cancer She is not correct because sentence is plural
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 12 Nov 2013, 15:18
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nechets wrote:
Hi Mike,

There is something I quite don't get in the correct sentence.

As you said, "not every woman" is singular. But then, when it comes to specify the "singular" woman, the sentence use "those". Is it logical to refer back to a singular noun with "those"?

Dear nechets,
OK, you asked a very subtle question, and I am happy to help. :-)

The expression "every woman", or "not every woman", are grammatically singular, but of course, logically, we know we are referring to more than one woman in this statement. The word "those" does not refer to all of the women, but to a subgroup, the women who have meet a particular condition. It's perfectly fine to refer to the whole group by a singular indefinite form, and the subgroup as a plural set. Again, logically, we know the whole group contains a lot of individual women, even though it's represented in a grammatically singular form, so there's no problem that a subgroup is plural.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2013, 06:50
avohden wrote:
Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

A. Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

B. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.

C. Not all women, even those who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, wants to know if they carry a BRCA mutation, which is a serious risk factor for that cancer.

D. Not every woman, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, a serious risk factor for that cancer.

E. Not all women, even the ones who have a strong familial history of breast cancer, want to know if she carries a BRCA mutation, considered a serious risk factor for that cancer.


oe to follow



The fastest way I found to solve this question is as follow.

A: wants (Singular) carries(Singular) Correct
B: want (plural) carries(Singular) Wrong
C: wants (Singular) carry (Plural) Wrong
D: want (plural) carries(Singular) Wrong
E: want (plural) carries(Singular) Wrong

I hope it helps
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 15 Nov 2013, 10:25
Official Explanation

Answer A
- In this example, you must make sure that you have proper agreement between both the subject and verb and the pronoun and antecedent. Only (A) contains proper agreement on both counts. In (B) the singular “she” improperly refers back to the plural subject women. In (C) “Not all women…wants” is an error of subject-verb agreement. Likewise in (D), “Not every woman…want” contains a similar error. (E), like (B) improperly uses “she” to refer to “women” Only (A) uses the proper “wants” and “she” to go with the singular subject woman.
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Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2014, 06:16
mikemcgarry wrote:
nechets wrote:
Hi Mike,

There is something I quite don't get in the correct sentence.

As you said, "not every woman" is singular. But then, when it comes to specify the "singular" woman, the sentence use "those". Is it logical to refer back to a singular noun with "those"?

Dear nechets,
OK, you asked a very subtle question, and I am happy to help. :-)

The expression "every woman", or "not every woman", are grammatically singular, but of course, logically, we know we are referring to more than one woman in this statement. The word "those" does not refer to all of the women, but to a subgroup, the women who have meet a particular condition. It's perfectly fine to refer to the whole group by a singular indefinite form, and the subgroup as a plural set. Again, logically, we know the whole group contains a lot of individual women, even though it's represented in a grammatically singular form, so there's no problem that a subgroup is plural.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)

Mike ,
Are these 3 sentences correct on GMAT:
1. The GDP of Brazil is larger than those of India and Korea.
2. The GDPs of India and Korea are smaller than that of Brazil.
3. The melting points of most metals are 100 degrees above room temperature, but that of mercury is below 0 degree.
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2014, 08:43
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tushain wrote:
Mike ,
Are these 3 sentences correct on GMAT:
1. The GDP of Brazil is larger than those of India and Korea.
2. The GDPs of India and Korea are smaller than that of Brazil.
3. The melting points of most metals are 100 degrees above room temperature, but that of mercury is below 0 degree.

Dear tushain,
My friend, this is subtle. In math, you can make up your own examples of math questions ("would this be right?" questions), and chances are, it will be clean question, focused only on the math about which you intend to ask. Verbal is very different.

For example, the first is fine as a demonstrative example sentence illustrating a grammar point, but that doesn't mean it's ideal as a GMAT sentence. You have to understand, the standards for the GMAT SC are very high --- the sentence has to be grammatically correct, the logic must be flawless, and the topic must be meaningful and interesting. This sentence is too short, too simple, to even begin to qualify as a proper GMAT SC sentence. The grammar is correct in #1 & #2, and yes, the grammar there could appear in a much more complex and meaningful sentence as the correct answer to a SC question. The grammar could appear, but these particular sentences are too short and simple to appear.

The logical construction of the comparison is shaky in #2 --- are we comparing the sum of those in India & Korea to that of Brazil, or are we comparing them separately and independently? Also, "smaller" is not the most natural word --- we need "less" to compare numbers. You see, in trying to ask about grammar, you introduced a number of other problems. One suggestion:
2. The GDP of India, like that of Korea, is less than that of Brazil.
Now, this is grammatically & logically correct, although I don't think it's long and complex enough that we could make a good SC question out of it.

The final sentence is grammatically correct as well, and this is starting to get to a level of length and complexity such that it might quality for a good SC sentence.

It's important to keep two very different things in mind: (a) could the grammar in the sentence appear in a larger sentence on the GMAT? vs. (b) could the sentence itself appear on the GMAT? Certainly for #1 & #3, we could say "yes" to (a), but probably not to (b).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2014, 09:56
mikemcgarry wrote:
tushain wrote:
Mike ,
Are these 3 sentences correct on GMAT:
1. The GDP of Brazil is larger than those of India and Korea.
2. The GDPs of India and Korea are smaller than that of Brazil.
3. The melting points of most metals are 100 degrees above room temperature, but that of mercury is below 0 degree.

Dear tushain,
My friend, this is subtle. In math, you can make up your own examples of math questions ("would this be right?" questions), and chances are, it will be clean question, focused only on the math about which you intend to ask. Verbal is very different.

For example, the first is fine as a demonstrative example sentence illustrating a grammar point, but that doesn't mean it's ideal as a GMAT sentence. You have to understand, the standards for the GMAT SC are very high --- the sentence has to be grammatically correct, the logic must be flawless, and the topic must be meaningful and interesting. This sentence is too short, too simple, to even begin to qualify as a proper GMAT SC sentence. The grammar is correct in #1 & #2, and yes, the grammar there could appear in a much more complex and meaningful sentence as the correct answer to a SC question. The grammar could appear, but these particular sentences are too short and simple to appear.

The logical construction of the comparison is shaky in #2 --- are we comparing the sum of those in India & Korea to that of Brazil, or are we comparing them separately and independently? Also, "smaller" is not the most natural word --- we need "less" to compare numbers. You see, in trying to ask about grammar, you introduced a number of other problems. One suggestion:
2. The GDP of India, like that of Korea, is less than that of Brazil.
Now, this is grammatically & logically correct, although I don't think it's long and complex enough that we could make a good SC question out of it.

The final sentence is grammatically correct as well, and this is starting to get to a level of length and complexity such that it might quality for a good SC sentence.

It's important to keep two very different things in mind: (a) could the grammar in the sentence appear in a larger sentence on the GMAT? vs. (b) could the sentence itself appear on the GMAT? Certainly for #1 & #3, we could say "yes" to (a), but probably not to (b).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)

Mike, "those" in #1 stands for GDP "
"that in #2 stands for GDPs"
"that in #3 stands for melting points "
How is pronoun usage okay? i dont understand :(
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2014, 06:04
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tushain wrote:
Mike, "those" in #1 stands for GDP "
"that in #2 stands for GDPs"
"that in #3 stands for melting points "
How is pronoun usage okay? i dont understand :(

Dear tushain,
The pronouns "this," "that," "these," and "those" are demonstrative pronouns. Their rules are somewhat different from the rules for personal pronouns (he, she, they, etc.) Magoosh has grammar lessons explaining this distinction in detail. I highly recommend joining Magoosh to see those lessons.
Mike :-)
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Re: Not every woman, even those who have a strong familial   [#permalink] 20 Dec 2014, 06:04
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