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Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who

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Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2010, 04:06
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E

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Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who did not smoke had their first heart attack at a median age of 62. However, of those 2,500, people who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day had their first heart attack at a median age of 51. On the basis of this information, it can be concluded that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.
The conclusion is incorrectly drawn from the information given because this information does not include
(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2010, 04:10
Imagine this situation:

Ages of people who smoke >2 packets: 50 50 50 50 50 50 50....50 51 62 62 62 62 62 ....62
Ages of people who dont smoke: 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 ...50 62 62 62 62 62 62 ....62

Median of first groups: 51
Median of second groups: 62

Both groups tend to have a first heart attack not eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, but at the same age, therefore the conclusion is incorrectly drawn.

For this reason, Im with D.
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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 03 Jun 2010, 05:14
It's a twisted FLAW in reasoning question. Good one.

IMO E.
If we dont know how many smokers/non-smokers survived their first encounter then it will be difficult to conclude. What if majority of NS die on first HA before the 51?

Argument states info only on first HA survivers but not on non-survivers. So, I go with my intuition here. This point is what E catches.


noboru wrote:
Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who did not smoke had their first heart attack at a median age of 62. However, of those 2,500, people who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day had their first heart attack at a median age of 51. On the basis of this information, it can be concluded that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.
The conclusion is incorrectly drawn from the information given because this information does not include
(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack [Out of scope]
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack [Even if we are given at the earliest age of smokers, what about the earliest age of non-smokers? Incomplete info]
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack [Correct]

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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2010, 12:42
I think it is (E)...what is the OA?
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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2010, 14:42
the argument has nothing to do with Non survivors.
it incorrectly generalizes about all non smokers and smokers because it assumes that all non smokers experienced HA at the same age from a median data.
Median does not tell you the age at which all smokers experience HA. Median is a median.

So as in D, one of the smokers might have experienced HA at the age of 10 and others at the median age. and the median would still be unchanged. Would the argument still be valid? No. [On top of that we do not know how many ppl, so you can assume that there must be something wrong generalizing from a median set.]
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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2010, 19:42
IMO it is "E"....The argument begins with a specific sample "of those who survived their first HA....." then in the end it generalizes to "all the non smokers and smokers"
What is the OA?
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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 14 Mar 2014, 22:06
noboru wrote:
Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who did not smoke had their first heart attack at a median age of 62. However, of those 2,500, people who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day had their first heart attack at a median age of 51. On the basis of this information, it can be concluded that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.
The conclusion is incorrectly drawn from the information given because this information does not include
(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack



IMHO, E



A:Severity of heart attack is out of scope
B:Medical treatment is out of scope
C:2nd heart attack is out of scope
D: Knowing the earliest age does not help in any way to determine anything when we are considering medians.
E:The conclusion compares smokers and non smokers in general whether they survived or not but the data in hand says nothing about those who died of their first heart attack. Such a conclusion cannot be made from that so this is Correct

Initially, I also thought that it would be D because it is the only choice which speaks about the age of the persons involved.
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Re: first heart attack [#permalink] New post 14 Mar 2014, 22:35
noboru wrote:
Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who did not smoke had their first heart attack at a median age of 62. However, of those 2,500, people who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day had their first heart attack at a median age of 51. On the basis of this information, it can be concluded that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.
The conclusion is incorrectly drawn from the information given because this information does not include
(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack



(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
Severity doesnt matter, the comaprison is about the first heart attack
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
What happens after the heart attach doesnt matter, for this argument :)
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
Second heart attack is out of question
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
Correct. The conclusion is, difference of 11 years to have first heart attack between non-smokers and smokers. This conclusion is invalid if majority of this median is before or after 51 years. So 11 years difference is wrong indicator.
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack
What happens after the heart attack is irrelevent for the conclusion, read the conclusion carefully.
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Re: Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who [#permalink] New post 10 Sep 2014, 01:22
amolg wrote:
noboru wrote:
Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who did not smoke had their first heart attack at a median age of 62. However, of those 2,500, people who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day had their first heart attack at a median age of 51. On the basis of this information, it can be concluded that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.
The conclusion is incorrectly drawn from the information given because this information does not include
(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack



(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
Severity doesnt matter, the comaprison is about the first heart attack
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
What happens after the heart attach doesnt matter, for this argument :)
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
Second heart attack is out of question
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
Correct. The conclusion is, difference of 11 years to have first heart attack between non-smokers and smokers. This conclusion is invalid if majority of this median is before or after 51 years. So 11 years difference is wrong indicator.
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack
What happens after the heart attack is irrelevent for the conclusion, read the conclusion carefully.




First of all, the OA is E. This is an Official LSAT Question (Test #10 of "10 Actual Tests").

Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who did not smoke had their first heart attack at a median age of 62. However, of those 2,500, people who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day had their first heart attack at a median age of 51. On the basis of this information, it can be concluded that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack eleven years later than do people who smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.
The conclusion is incorrectly drawn from the information given because this information does not include
(A) the relative severity of heart attacks suffered by smokers and nonsmokers
(B) the nature of the different medical treatments that smokers and nonsmokers received after they had survived their first heart attack
(C) how many of the 2,500 people studied suffered a second heart attack
(D) the earliest age at which a person who smoked two packs a day had his or her first heart attack
(E) data on people who did not survive a first heart attack

Note that the argument focuses its premises on people who survived their first heart attack. The argument however makes a broader statement in its conclusion: "people who smoke" (note that the "survivor" qualifier is now gone). What if significantly more smokers had their first heart attack at, say, 10 years old, but they ALL DIED? Therefore, the conclusion that nonsmokers tend to have a first heart attack 11 years later than do people who smoke is INVALID. You see, by broadening its conclusion, it had made an unwarranted generalisation.

And yes you are correct, read the conclusion carefully.
Re: Of 2,500 people who survived a first heart attack, those who   [#permalink] 10 Sep 2014, 01:22
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