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On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point [#permalink]
21 Nov 2009, 08:25
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50% (00:00) wrong based on 0 sessions
On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point (0,0) than to point (u,v + 1) ?
1. V + u^2 = -1
2 V< 0.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
21 Nov 2009, 08:41
gmat620 wrote: On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point (0,0) than to point (u,v + 1) ?
1. V + u^2 = -1
2 V< 0. Is the answer 'A' 1. Statement 1 v+u^2= -1 u^2 = -1-v since square of any number is always positive so v is negative and |v|>1Now distant between (u,v) and (0,0) = u^2+v^2since |v|>1 u^2+v^2 >1 and Distance between (u,v) and (u,v+1) = 1 so (u,v) is closer to (u,v+1) than to (0,0) 2. This statement doesn't say anything about 'u'. Not Sufficient
Last edited by swatirpr on 21 Nov 2009, 09:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
21 Nov 2009, 08:55
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
21 Nov 2009, 09:10
How is it even A? The distance between (u,v) and (0,0) is sqrt(v squared + u squared), consider this value-1. The distance between (u, v) and (u, v+1) is 1, consider this value-2. The question asks us is if value-1 < value-2. Statement-1: -v = 1 + u squared. Square on both sides and then substitute in the equation of the question, u powered 4 + 3(u squared) + 1 < 1 . Hence, either u squared < 0 or u squared < -3 which is not possible. Statement-2: Makes no difference. Statement-3: Combine both statements, still same as above. I think it should be E. Both statements are insufficient to come up with a solid answer.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
21 Nov 2009, 09:44
SensibleGuy wrote: How is it even A? The distance between (u,v) and (0,0) is sqrt(v squared + u squared), consider this value-1.
The distance between (u, v) and (u, v+1) is 1, consider this value-2.
The question asks us is if value-1 < value-2.
Statement-1: -v = 1 + u squared. Square on both sides and then substitute in the equation of the question, u powered 4 + 3(u squared) + 1 < 1 . Hence, either u squared < 0 or u squared < -3 which is not possible.
Statement-2: Makes no difference.
Statement-3: Combine both statements, still same as above.
I think it should be E. Both statements are insufficient to come up with a solid answer. Please check the explanation and let me know if I am doing it wrong. 1. Statement 1 v+u^2= -1u^2 = -1-vsince square of any number is always positive so v is negative and|v|>1 Now distant between (u,v) and (0,0) = u^2+v^2since |v|>1then u^2+v^2 >1and Distance between (u,v) and (u,v+1) = 1 so (u,v) is closer to (u,v+1) than to (0,0) 2. This statement doesn't say anything about 'u'. Not Sufficient Thanks.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
22 Nov 2009, 00:41
gmat620 wrote: On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point (0,0) than to point (u,v + 1) ?
1. V + u^2 = -1 2 V< 0. Why OA is A and not D? In both case, u is not known and could +ve or -ve. With the same condition, why statement 1 is suff but not statement 2? The value of u is irrlavant to this question. So it has to be D.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
22 Nov 2009, 03:53
GMAT TIGER wrote: gmat620 wrote: On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point (0,0) than to point (u,v + 1) ?
1. V + u^2 = -1 2 V< 0. Why OA is A and not D? In both case, u is not known and could +ve or -ve. With the same condition, why statement 1 is suff but not statement 2? The value of u is irrlavant to this question. So it has to be D. I don't know I encountered this question on gmat club test and OA given there was A. Even I reached D.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
22 Nov 2009, 05:05
The question is asking whether u^2+v^2<u^2+ (v+1)^2 => u^2+v^2<u^2+v^2+1+2v
For this happen 1+2v<0
From stem 1 V=-1-u^2; As u^2>0, V<-1 => 1+2V is less than zero. Hence Suff
From stem 2 V<0; but for 1+2V<0 V should be less than -1/2. Hence inSuff
Hence A
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
22 Nov 2009, 05:14
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Quote: I don't know I encountered this question on gmat club test and OA given there was A. Even I reached D.
Question Stem : Which is greater between \sqrt{u^2+v^2} and \sqrt{u^2+v^2+1+2v} St. (1) : u^2 = - v - 1
Applying this to the question stem we get --> Which is greater between \sqrt{v^2 - v - 1} and \sqrt{v^2+v}It is obvious that \sqrt{v^2-v-1} will always be greater and therefore always be further away from the origin. Hence Sufficient. St. (2) : v<0
This just tells us that v is negative. However, it is not mentioned that v is an integer. It can be a fraction as well. Thus, we will get different solutions for v < -0.5, v = -0.5 and v > -0.5. ( \sqrt{u^2+v^2} will be greater than, equal to and less than \sqrt{u^2+v^2+1+2v} respectively). Hence Insufficient. Answer : A
Thus Statement is insufficient.
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Last edited by sriharimurthy on 22 Nov 2009, 15:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
22 Nov 2009, 11:57
Thanks to every one for taking time and interest in the problem.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
22 Nov 2009, 15:26
sriharimurthy wrote: Quote: I don't know I encountered this question on gmat club test and OA given there was A. Even I reached D.
Question Stem : Which is greater between \sqrt{u^2+v^2} and \sqrt{u^2+v^2+1+2v} St. (1) : u^2 = - v - 1
Applying this to the question stem we get --> Which is greater between \sqrt{v^2 - v - 1} and \sqrt{v^2+v}It is obvious that \sqrt{v^2+v} will always be greater and therefore always be further away from the origin. Hence Sufficient. St. (2) : v<0
This just tells us that v is negative. However, it is not mentioned that v is an integer. It can be a fraction as well. Thus, we will get different solutions for v < -0.5, v = -0.5 and v > -0.5. ( \sqrt{u^2+v^2} will be greater than, equal to and less than \sqrt{u^2+v^2+1+2v} respectively). Hence Insufficient. Answer : A
Thus Statement is insufficient. Agreed. v could be a -ve fraction and if it is too close to 0, then (u, v+1) will be reversed from where (u, v) was.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
23 Nov 2009, 16:54
Hello, I feel like the answer here is D If u draw a graph, u will notice that the 2points are on a vertical line, parallel to the Y axis --> u does not change.
(1) V + U^2 = -1 u^2 = -1 - v this means that (-1-v) > 0 thus v< -1 v is always negative for all v<0, v+1 > v then (u;v) is NOT closer to (0;0) than (u;v+1)
(2) v<0 for all v<0, v+1 > v then (u;v) is NOT closer to (0;0) than (u;v+1) Up here is what i previously did... After thinking about it more... I should admit that I misunderstood the question. Sorry
Last edited by johjok on 23 Nov 2009, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
23 Nov 2009, 17:08
swatirpr wrote: Please check the explanation and let me know if I am doing it wrong. Ms Perfect, +1 awarded. I learnt not to blindly square on both sides to be able to substitute into the question. Values that variables can take sometimes get totally tricky!!!! I hate DS, deadly mother of all causes that evoke agony!!!!
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
24 Nov 2009, 17:27
for those of you who said A, have you tried (0,-1)?
E seems more correct to me.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
24 Nov 2009, 17:56
opal258 wrote: for those of you who said A, have you tried (0,-1)?
E seems more correct to me. For (0, -1) question stem would look like On the coordinate plane, is point (0,-1) closer to point (0,0) than to point (0,0) ?and that doesn't make any sense to me.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
24 Nov 2009, 18:02
swatirpr wrote: opal258 wrote: for those of you who said A, have you tried (0,-1)?
E seems more correct to me. For (0, -1) question stem would look like On the coordinate plane, is point (0,-1) closer to point (0,0) than to point (0,0) ?and that doesn't make any sense to me. when someone chooses A, he/she usually concludes that "(u,v) is closer to (u,v+1) than to (0,0)." However, if (u,v) = (0,-1), the distance from (u,v) to (u,v+1) would be the same with that from (u,v) to (0,0). Therefore, A is insufficient.
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help [#permalink]
25 Nov 2009, 03:11
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opal258 wrote: swatirpr wrote: opal258 wrote: for those of you who said A, have you tried (0,-1)?
E seems more correct to me. Guys, In my earlier post, I had misread the question as On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point (0,0) than is point (u,v + 1) ?However, the question is in fact On the coordinate plane, is point (u,v) closer to point (0,0) than to point (u,v + 1) ?Thus the distances would be as follows: (a) Between (u,v) and (0,0) ----> \sqrt{u^2+v^2}(b) Between (u,v) and (u,v+1) --> \sqrt{(v+1-v)^2} = 1 Therefore, in order to answer the question stem, point \sqrt{u^2+v^2} must either be less than 1 [point (u,v) is closer to (0,0) than to (u,v+1)] or greater than equal to 1 [point (u.v) is not closer to (0,0) that to (u,v+1)]. Now, let us evaluate the statements: St. (1) : u^2 = - v - 1
This implies that v\leq-1Therefore, distance between (u,v) and (0,0) becomes : \sqrt{v^2-v-1} where v\leq-1Thus, we can see that for no value of v\leq-1 will \sqrt{u^2+v^2} be less than 1. (Since u^2 will always be greater than 0 and v^2 will always be greater than or equal to 1). Even when v = -1, the point (0,0) will be the same distance away from (u,v) as (u,v+1) but not closer.
Thus we can see that if the values of u and v satisfy statement 1, the question stem will always be proved false. That is, (u,v) will never be closer to (0,0). Hence statement 1 is sufficient. St. (2) : v<0
Since it is not mentioned that either u or v have to be integers, we can have the following cases : (a) \sqrt{u^2+v^2} less than 1. Point (0,0) will be closer to (u,v). Eg. u = 0.5 and v = -0.5 This would prove the question stem true. (b) \sqrt{u^2+v^2} greater than equal to 1. Point (0,0) will not be closer to (u,v). Eg. u = 1 and v = -1 This would prove the question stem false. Since this statement gives us contradicting solutions, it cannot be sufficient. Answer : A
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Re: Help required on geometry question. Please help
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25 Nov 2009, 03:11
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