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Opinions on AGSM - now Australian School of Business (ASB)

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Opinions on AGSM - now Australian School of Business (ASB) [#permalink] New post 13 May 2007, 10:03
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Ranked #49 in FT 2007. Has anyone considered applying here?
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Re: Opinions about Australian Graduate School of Management? [#permalink] New post 18 Aug 2007, 02:27
csgreen wrote:
Ranked #49 in FT 2007. Has anyone considered applying here?


I am planning to apply here, it seems like a good school.
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 [#permalink] New post 20 Aug 2007, 20:16
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Great school , great lifestyle. I am in Sydney and have considered applying to it several times. The only thing that holds me back is that I really want to move to the finance industry in the US/UK. If I were to stay in Australia, I would apply without second thought.

Pros:
- Costs : Appx 52 K AUD tuition all up (this compares with 95K + USD at most US schools).
- Lifestyle : I do not know of any other MBA school which is 5-10 minutes from a world class beach. Sydney is simply a great place (rated #5 in the list of top worldwide university cities in the world)
- Term : starts in January so you dont have to wait till August next year to get started. 16 month period means that you will be finished before the American institutes as well. This can be fast tracked further to 12 months
- Average GMAT - 660 which is not terribly high, but they have a very small class size (just 43 people) and tend to admit very experienced candidates (average WE - 7 years)
- The class profile can be seen here : http://www2.agsm.edu.au/agsm/web.nsf/Co ... a-profiles
- Student body VERY multicultural and diverse (I have experienced this first hand at a party I attended)
- Some very impressive placement stats can be found here :
http://www2.agsm.edu.au/agsm/web.nsf/At ... C+2007.pdf


Cons:
- Lack of internship (if this is important to you)
- Graduates are still primarily placed in Asia Pacific (although I do know of one person who was placed with DHL in Germany)
- Slightly older class size (average age of 30)


Hope this helps.

ps. could someone please make this a sticky ? I find myself typing the same things over and over again.
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 [#permalink] New post 20 Aug 2007, 21:30
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Good info bsd.
I'm also pasting bsd's reply to my PM

================

You can try with 660, which is already above the median of 640. However AGSM only takes about 50-60 students per year, hence score a 680+ to pretty much secure a place (of course essays play an important part too).

AGSM has a better international reputation than MBS does, but I have visited both schools and know alumni from each personally and I can tell you that there isn't much between them. I went to an AGSM party once and the group was extremely diverse. There were people from Australia, New Zealand, China, India , Singapore, US , France , Germany even Turkey..

I do not know enough about the Singapore schools , however I do know that several Singaporeans themselves choose the Australian schools for a more 'rounded' MBA experience.

Here is what I would do if I didn't want to retake the GMAT :
- Contact both MBS and AGSM directly and ask them how competitive this year is and what would your chances be with a 660. Normally business school in Australia is not as cut throat as it is in the US.
- Apply to both, if you are coming from outside of Australia, location shouldn't have much of a bearing on your decision. Both Sydney and Melbourne are world class cities. I am biased towards Sydney, but I have lived in Melbourne too, and again, not much to choose between the two.
- One more thing to keep in mind is that the term starts in January for most Australian schools, so clock is ticking......

Good luck.

=========

Hope this helps.
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 [#permalink] New post 21 Aug 2007, 17:23
Those wanting to apply to AGSM better hurry up. The first round ends on August 31. The second round ends October 15th.

Check this site on application details :
http://www2.agsm.edu.au/agsm/web.nsf/Co ... -admission

Check this page for entry requirements :
http://www2.agsm.edu.au/agsm/web.nsf/Co ... gmba-entry
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Nov 2007, 23:17
Edited.

Last edited by financeguy on 20 Dec 2007, 17:00, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Nov 2007, 02:54
One interesting thing about AGSM is that it is one of the Universities that are recognized for an automatic HSMV visa for the UK.

**Edit - UK recently changed their HSMV rules and this is not valid anymore.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Nov 2007, 21:51
financeguy,

whats your take on the melbourne business school ? Is it on the same lines as that of AGSM ?
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 [#permalink] New post 20 Nov 2007, 01:41
trahul4 wrote:
financeguy,

whats your take on the melbourne business school ? Is it on the same lines as that of AGSM ?


I have no direct experience with MBS so really can't comment on their professionalism. Both have below average international rankings (49 and 76) so I don't see much of a difference here but if you look at class profile and placement statistics, AGSM looks an obvious choice from the two.

I won't be surprised at a third school taking them over in the near future - Uni. of Sydney and ANU have drastically improved their global rankings with Sydney at 31 and ANU at No. 13 globally (source: their websites) while UNSW and Melbourne uni are consistently going down and this is bound to have an affect their business schools as well.

One thing is for sure that AGSM and MBS can't be complaceent anymore.

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 [#permalink] New post 20 Nov 2007, 01:58
Thanks financeguy for your inputs.
There has been a lot of talk in my home country (India) about how Australia is emerging as a next destination for students after US (to some extent UK). With such tough immigration laws, i dont know how come so many students are managing ? Can you throw some light on this if you have any first hand experience ?
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 [#permalink] New post 20 Nov 2007, 02:16
trahul4 wrote:
Thanks financeguy for your inputs.
There has been a lot of talk in my home country (India) about how Australia is emerging as a next destination for students after US (to some extent UK). With such tough immigration laws, i dont know how come so many students are managing ? Can you throw some light on this if you have any first hand experience ?


Most of the students target cheaper universities and also go for courses which are on immigration demand list like accounting, nursing or engineering.

If your objective is to migrate to australia and you are willing to study accounting, it might be a good idea to come here but if you have Ivy League dreams, then you will be very disappointed.
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 [#permalink] New post 21 Nov 2007, 11:45
financeguy wrote:
trahul4 wrote:
Thanks financeguy for your inputs.
There has been a lot of talk in my home country (India) about how Australia is emerging as a next destination for students after US (to some extent UK). With such tough immigration laws, i dont know how come so many students are managing ? Can you throw some light on this if you have any first hand experience ?


Most of the students target cheaper universities and also go for courses which are on immigration demand list like accounting, nursing or engineering.

If your objective is to migrate to australia and you are willing to study accounting, it might be a good idea to come here but if you have Ivy League dreams, then you will be very disappointed.


Just one data point: during my visit to Cornell I met a Chinese woman exchange student from MBS. Her English was so bad I could hardly understand a word she was saying. There was also another Russian woman exchange student who was a good English speaker.
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 [#permalink] New post 21 Nov 2007, 16:24
EX10XL wrote:

Just one data point: during my visit to Cornell I met a Chinese woman exchange student from MBS. Her English was so bad I could hardly understand a word she was saying. There was also another Russian woman exchange student who was a good English speaker.


Well that may not prove anything. Most Asian students struggle with spoken English language and you will also find many in Ivy League schools who are not fluent in English but most of these students pick up very quickly and it just really doesn't make any difference at all at the end of day if you are not in a job role where a lot of speaking is required.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2007, 10:24
EX10XL wrote:
financeguy wrote:
trahul4 wrote:
Thanks financeguy for your inputs.
There has been a lot of talk in my home country (India) about how Australia is emerging as a next destination for students after US (to some extent UK). With such tough immigration laws, i dont know how come so many students are managing ? Can you throw some light on this if you have any first hand experience ?


Most of the students target cheaper universities and also go for courses which are on immigration demand list like accounting, nursing or engineering.

If your objective is to migrate to australia and you are willing to study accounting, it might be a good idea to come here but if you have Ivy League dreams, then you will be very disappointed.


Just one data point: during my visit to Cornell I met a Chinese woman exchange student from MBS. Her English was so bad I could hardly understand a word she was saying. There was also another Russian woman exchange student who was a good English speaker.



Don't sell the Chinese guys short. They often may not be able to SPEAK worth a damn, but they understand pretty well. They are also often very good in written English. I've done business with China and visited China often. They may not understand what you say, but they often understand what you write, rather well.

Last edited by rk4g63 on 26 Dec 2007, 19:04, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2007, 02:14
Hi,

Interesting topic and I would like to add some points here. My brother is an AGSM MBA, finished last year and now settled in Sydney. He went to AGSM with 5 years of professional experience from India and now working with a leading investment bank in Australia at a crazy package (180K).

First off, international rankings are always biased in favor of US schools so ranking of 49 doesn't mean that AGSM is not as good as a Top 20 or even an Ivy League school. My brother went to Kelloggs on exchange program and according to him there is not much difference between AGSM and Ivy League. Most importantly, all the big companies need people in Asia Pacific region and you have relatively much more opportunities available to you once you graduate from a Top Asia Pacific program than a US MBA graduate. Most of his class got international placements and most students had more than 2-3 options to choose from.

With an expected slow down in US economy and issues with H1 Visas, I think choosing an Australian school should be a no brainer for international students specially the ones with Indian origin. Now as far as Australian visas are concerned, you are not automatically entitled to a working visa once you graduate but you have to plan in advance and apply for your residency early and for someone who has made to a top aussie school, it should not be a problem at all.

AGSM only costs $50,000 and if you have a co-signer or guarantor in Australia, you can easily get a loan at competitive terms and unlike some other countries, your loan payments and educational expenses are tax deductible.

In terms of living standards, Sydney is a thriving Metropolis - a population of 7 million (larger than most large US cities) and yet one of the most livable cities in the world. Australian economy is doing very well and it's kind of gateway to Asia - benefiting from Asian economic boom.

Admission is also competitive - I couldn't get in this year with a 690 GMAT and 4 year Indian MNC experience and now considering MBS for their September in-take which is the second best school in Australia but very well know internationally.

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 [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2007, 03:46
Some really good point mbawizz, some of the other comments seem to portray AGSM in a bad light, I know of far too many similar success stories from Australian schools to write any of them off. AGSM has exchange program with all top universities in the US and UK , plus its in the list of universities that qualify for automatic HSM visas in the UK, certainly value for money when compared to US programs. Amazing lifestyle too...

ps. Sydney only has 4 million people - still more than most US cities though.

mbawizz wrote:
Hi,

Interesting topic and I would like to add some points here. My brother is an AGSM MBA, finished last year and now settled in Sydney. He went to AGSM with 5 years of professional experience from India and now working with a leading investment bank in Australia at a crazy package (180K).

First off, international rankings are always biased in favor of US schools so ranking of 49 doesn't mean that AGSM is not as good as a Top 20 or even an Ivy League school. My brother went to Kelloggs on exchange program and according to him there is not much difference between AGSM and Ivy League. Most importantly, all the big companies need people in Asia Pacific region and you have relatively much more opportunities available to you once you graduate from a Top Asia Pacific program than a US MBA graduate. Most of his class got international placements and most students had more than 2-3 options to choose from.

With an expected slow down in US economy and issues with H1 Visas, I think choosing an Australian school should be a no brainer for international students specially the ones with Indian origin. Now as far as Australian visas are concerned, you are not automatically entitled to a working visa once you graduate but you have to plan in advance and apply for your residency early and for someone who has made to a top aussie school, it should not be a problem at all.

AGSM only costs $50,000 and if you have a co-signer or guarantor in Australia, you can easily get a loan at competitive terms and unlike some other countries, your loan payments and educational expenses are tax deductible.

In terms of living standards, Sydney is a thriving Metropolis - a population of 7 million (larger than most large US cities) and yet one of the most livable cities in the world. Australian economy is doing very well and it's kind of gateway to Asia - benefiting from Asian economic boom.

Admission is also competitive - I couldn't get in this year with a 690 GMAT and 4 year Indian MNC experience and now considering MBS for their September in-take which is the second best school in Australia but very well know internationally.

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 [#permalink] New post 27 Dec 2007, 01:46
An email from an AGSM alumni in response to my request for information on her experience of AGSM. She graduated from executive program in 2004.

_________________________________________
Hi Mxxxx,

More than happy to help. I'll give you as much info as I have but let me know if I don't cover something you want to know about. It has been three years since I finished!

Firstly, I did the Master of Business Administration (Executive). That is, the part-time course. I did this primarily because a) I did not want to take out the time to work on the MBA fulltime and b) my employer was willing to pay for the part-time MBA.

The course is three years. Two years are semester courses, which consist of both compulsory and elective courses. The MBA is marked on a Bell Curve, with the top two-thirds of students being able to progress through to the final year. The final year is cohort / group work with residentials interspersed.

The first two years were ok. Some courses were unbelievably awesome. And others were unbelievably poor. It really depends on how lucky you get with your course convenor. Get a good one and you learn heaps. Get a bad one and you spend each class watching the clock.

The final year, though, makes it all worth it. During it I got access to some of the top minds in business. Not only was I able to learn from them, but the networking opportunities that have arisen as a result of meeting these heavy hitters have proven invaluable

With regards to the networks, they are critical to why I enjoyed the eMBA so much. I met some of the biggest personalities in Australian business. For example, I met the COO of a top multinational, who ended up becoming a very close friend and god mother to my oldest son. I've never had to pay retail for anything since doing the MBA - we all help each other out with mates rate. We also help each other out with career advice and assistance (ie putting a good word in here and there).

As for my career progression, it has been impressive. I started the MBA as a lower-level analyst within a government organisation. I am now working as a senior analyst in an oil company, earning a six figure salary and being given challenging and fulfilling work. The MBA has definitely opened doors, more so because it validates my work experience. I guess employers see it as confirmation of what I know.

All up, the MBA was a great experience. I still use alot of the material I worked with (alot of it is timeless) and, as mentioned, I keep in contact with many of my class.

If you need anything else, just let me know. Hope you had a great Christmas.

Jxxxxx
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Dec 2007, 02:57
Outstanding financeguy - Gotta LOVE the term 'mate's rates' :)

financeguy wrote:
An email from an AGSM alumni in response to my request for information on her experience of AGSM. She graduated from executive program in 2004.

_________________________________________
Hi Mxxxx,

More than happy to help. I'll give you as much info as I have but let me know if I don't cover something you want to know about. It has been three years since I finished!

Firstly, I did the Master of Business Administration (Executive). That is, the part-time course. I did this primarily because a) I did not want to take out the time to work on the MBA fulltime and b) my employer was willing to pay for the part-time MBA.

The course is three years. Two years are semester courses, which consist of both compulsory and elective courses. The MBA is marked on a Bell Curve, with the top two-thirds of students being able to progress through to the final year. The final year is cohort / group work with residentials interspersed.

The first two years were ok. Some courses were unbelievably awesome. And others were unbelievably poor. It really depends on how lucky you get with your course convenor. Get a good one and you learn heaps. Get a bad one and you spend each class watching the clock.

The final year, though, makes it all worth it. During it I got access to some of the top minds in business. Not only was I able to learn from them, but the networking opportunities that have arisen as a result of meeting these heavy hitters have proven invaluable

With regards to the networks, they are critical to why I enjoyed the eMBA so much. I met some of the biggest personalities in Australian business. For example, I met the COO of a top multinational, who ended up becoming a very close friend and god mother to my oldest son. I've never had to pay retail for anything since doing the MBA - we all help each other out with mates rate. We also help each other out with career advice and assistance (ie putting a good word in here and there).

As for my career progression, it has been impressive. I started the MBA as a lower-level analyst within a government organisation. I am now working as a senior analyst in an oil company, earning a six figure salary and being given challenging and fulfilling work. The MBA has definitely opened doors, more so because it validates my work experience. I guess employers see it as confirmation of what I know.

All up, the MBA was a great experience. I still use alot of the material I worked with (alot of it is timeless) and, as mentioned, I keep in contact with many of my class.

If you need anything else, just let me know. Hope you had a great Christmas.

Jxxxxx
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Re: Opinions about Australian Graduate School of Management? [#permalink] New post 06 Jan 2008, 04:04
Another testimonial from a current student. Courtesy Whirlpool Broadband forum.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... =-1#bottom

_________________________________________________________________

So lots of interesting discussions here I’m throw in my 2 cents

I know your asking about the full time program i can only speak about the part time one. I'm currently attending AGSM executive MBA program for the last 2 years. I've intentionally taken it slow as busy work and other personal commitments keep me from churning through the subjects.

On the "sell night" they quoted 2.4X average increase in salary from when someone started the program to 3 years after they have finished. My fellow classmates and I have debated how they came about this a few times, probably lots of the people coming in on low salaries or something like that.... Anyhow I have my doubts about the multiplier.

I can easily see people getting 120K+ salaries after graduating from an MBA at AGSM or other Top uni. They probably can join a large number of consulting companies which love picking up MBA graduates.

As "Tyberious Funk" points out and I tend to agree; the type of people that have joined the mba program typically are already high achievers and the MBA program is another factor to their success. Does it define their success, probably not? For the not so genius folks in the class, imho it has more to do with personality then the MBA itself, people that are motivated will often find ways to succeed irrespective of education.

My personal take on the AGSM specific program. It's harder then it needs to be, often too theoretical or academic although AGSM markets it is relevant and practical to the workplace. Unless you’re a genius workload is a bitch, I’m spending averaged out about 10hours per subject per week. Exams are designed to trick you and material is laced with errors. Teaching style in some subjects is ancient and rather then making subject practical and real world they move it into abstract and theoretical (data analysis aka statistics course). I’ve also been told by friends in other programs that theirs is worse.
That said; I’m still enjoying learning although at times in each subject I question why I bother, I’ve already got a fantastic job and decent pay.

Most course notes are online yet missing massive amounts of appendixes because of copyright issues.

Lecturers intentionally design subjects so students are practically force to attend class as that is how they are compensated (by class attendence). The roll is gold in class. The lecturers vary in quality substantially, some are absolute leaders in respective their industries but can't teach for shit (not that they don't care, just teaching style is crap).

International student thing; well in the executive MBA program I have not come across one, and I'm at practically all the social events.

Benefit, well this depends on your background and what your hoping to achieve. Honestly I walked into the program hoping to get 1.5 - 2x salary my pre-mba salary, but that doesn't matter as much now because I'm finding the social and networking elements very rewarding. Initially I was going for high marks (HD)'s etc but really there are plenty of fantastic people from various industries but similar mindsets I would rather be having a beer with then spending the extra hours studying.

Please feel free to whim me if you have any other questions I could answer any specific questions.
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Re: Opinions about Australian Graduate School of Management? [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2008, 20:03
thanks a lot financeguy for posting good info on this school .. I think you can now joib bsd_lover as an Aussie expert :-)
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