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Oxford Said GPA Inquiry

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Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 15 Jul 2010, 11:07
Hi all,

Is it true that Said requires a minimum GPA of 3.5/4.0? I am an international applicant to-be with a sub 3.5 GPA and am really curious if this is true. Said is one of my top picks and I would be pretty sorry if that's indeed the case. many thanks in advance-

edit:
Quote:
"Requirements
To apply for the Oxford MBA, you should have:

1. A good undergraduate degree or equivalent

As guidance, a 2.1 degree (GPA 3.5 or its equivalent). Applicants who do not hold such a qualification may be considered if they have a very strong employment record demonstrating a high degree of responsibility."


OK. This clearly brings the deal out. However, still, ever heard of a case like this- where someone with <3.5 getting in?
Or (specifically for those of you who had already got in) what do you understand from this "very strong employment record"?
Honestly, I don't understand this sort of GPA discrimination :cry:
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 15 Jul 2010, 16:51
widerangeinput wrote:
Hi all,

Is it true that Said requires a minimum GPA of 3.5/4.0? I am an international applicant to-be with a sub 3.5 GPA and am really curious if this is true. Said is one of my top picks and I would be pretty sorry if that's indeed the case. many thanks in advance-

edit:
Quote:
"Requirements
To apply for the Oxford MBA, you should have:

1. A good undergraduate degree or equivalent

As guidance, a 2.1 degree (GPA 3.5 or its equivalent). Applicants who do not hold such a qualification may be considered if they have a very strong employment record demonstrating a high degree of responsibility."


OK. This clearly brings the deal out. However, still, ever heard of a case like this- where someone with <3.5 getting in?
Or (specifically for those of you who had already got in) what do you understand from this "very strong employment record"?
Honestly, I don't understand this sort of GPA discrimination :cry:


I'm guessing you're talking about the MBA, not the MFE program, correct?

If so, then yes -- I know someone who got into Oxford with a sub-3.5 GPA. The MFE, on the other hand, is much more competitive.
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 15 Jul 2010, 20:58
Expert's post
Oxford would obviously feel more comfortable with an applicant who met or surpassed the GPA statement, but I don't think that failing to do so would necessarily harm your chances. But you will have to make up for it in other parts of your application. Don't become discouraged if you didn't reach just one of the business school's suggestions. There's so much more to you than your GPA.

And I see that someone introduced the MFE program. I actually considered applying, but it soon became very clear that I had no chance of enrollment. The MFE is a specialized graduate course, and as such requires specific skills.
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2010, 01:21
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Cambridge has a similar requirement but let me share with you how I assess an application.

I first scan the applicant's GMAT and academic record. If the combination is reasonable, I will read their work history, essays and references to see if this is an interesting applicant, someone who has something different to offer to our class. At Cambridge, we are interested in individuals.

note that the GMAT and academic record are not sufficient in and of themselves to merit an interview invite. But on the other hand, a weak combination of GMAT and academic history is almost sufficient to disqualify someone at an early stage. So, I would encourage those who do not have a strong academic background but have a strong work history and something interesting and unique to offer to Cambridge, to work on their GMATs.

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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2010, 01:46
CambridgeMBA wrote:
Cambridge has a similar requirement but let me share with you how I assess an application.

I first scan the applicant's GMAT and academic record. If the combination is reasonable, I will read their work history, essays and references to see if this is an interesting applicant, someone who has something different to offer to our class. At Cambridge, we are interested in individuals.

note that the GMAT and academic record are not sufficient in and of themselves to merit an interview invite. But on the other hand, a weak combination of GMAT and academic history is almost sufficient to disqualify someone at an early stage. So, I would encourage those who do not have a strong academic background but have a strong work history and something interesting and unique to offer to Cambridge, to work on their GMATs.

Conrad chua
Head MBA Admissions
Cambridge


Hi Cambridge MBA,

Just a little query. How do you treat the professional qualifications like Cost & Management Accountancy, CIMA, Charterd Accountancy etc. These professional bodies have no GPA system despite of the fact that these are considered one of the toughest qualificaitons in the market.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2010, 14:15
we do not consider professional qualifications when we assess applications. I know some of these qualifications are demanding but our experience is that the GMAT and academic performance are stronger indicators of suitability for an MBA programme. I believe most MBA programmes share that view as well although I would admit that I have not done an exhaustive study on this.

Conrad Chua
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 17 Jul 2010, 21:02
CambridgeMBA wrote:
we do not consider professional qualifications when we assess applications. I know some of these qualifications are demanding but our experience is that the GMAT and academic performance are stronger indicators of suitability for an MBA programme. I believe most MBA programmes share that view as well although I would admit that I have not done an exhaustive study on this.

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
Cambridge.

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Sorry Conrad, I couldn't get your point. Actually I wanted to know that whether a GPA requirement is mandatory for all candidates as there are many qualifications & graduation programs (like I mentioned in my above post) which are without GPA. So can I infer from your reply that GPA is not mandatory for Cambridge MBA applicants (who have no GPA system in their undergraduation) & a strong GMAT & academic record is sufficient for applying in Judge Business School??

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 29 Dec 2010, 17:25
widerangeinput wrote:
Hi all,

Is it true that Said requires a minimum GPA of 3.5/4.0? I am an international applicant to-be with a sub 3.5 GPA and am really curious if this is true. Said is one of my top picks and I would be pretty sorry if that's indeed the case. many thanks in advance-

edit:
Quote:
"Requirements
To apply for the Oxford MBA, you should have:

1. A good undergraduate degree or equivalent

As guidance, a 2.1 degree (GPA 3.5 or its equivalent). Applicants who do not hold such a qualification may be considered if they have a very strong employment record demonstrating a high degree of responsibility."


OK. This clearly brings the deal out. However, still, ever heard of a case like this- where someone with <3.5 getting in?
Or (specifically for those of you who had already got in) what do you understand from this "very strong employment record"?
Honestly, I don't understand this sort of GPA discrimination :cry:



It's all relative (I hope!).

See this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_un ... sification

A degree may be awarded with or without honours, with the class of an honours degree based on the average mark of the assessed work a candidate has completed. Below is a list of the possible classifications with common abbreviations.

First-class Honours (1st)
Second-class Honours, upper division (2:1)
Second-class Honours, lower division (2:2)
Third-class Honours (3rd)
Ordinary-Degree (Pass)

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_un ... sification)

In Australia:- 1st Class Honours Degree (well, in Engineering at least), requires a 75% average, or, an approx 3.2 GPA (this will generally get you top 5% of ur graduating class in an Engineering Degree). It seems counter-intuitive (a 75% should be a 3.5GPA), but I had 12 HDs, 8 Ds, 8Cs, and 1P with an avg of 79.4%, a GPA of 3.37 - and finished with very "comfortable" First Class Honours. The majority of my C's were above 70%, with 2 of them being 74% (JUST missing out on a D). Before you freak out - see below for what HD, D, C and P mean! The split is not even between graduations either (there is a 0.5 point gap between HD & D, while there is a 1 point gap between D & C).

- 2:1 requires a 70% average, while 2:2 requires a 65% average. TECHNICALLY speaking, someone with a 70% avg could have an identical GPA to someone with a 65% avg, because marks between 65% - 74% net you a "2.5" on the GPA scale.

- There are no 3rd-class honours in Australia, with an avg of 64% or less being a "Pass" degree.

GPA Scales (Australia):
>85%: 4.0 (High Distinction)
>75%: 3.5 (Distinction)
>65%: 2.5 (Credit)
>50%: 1.5 (Pass)
<50%: 0.5

You can see the contrast between AUS and US, where a 75% in Australia is quite an achievement, whereas 75% in the US is quite average. This is because the passing mark is 50%, and there is no "scaling" or "bell curves" at Australian Universities. Your mark is your mark.


Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself here....I finished 2nd in a class of 90 Civil Engineers with a 79.41% Avg (3.37 GPA), the GPA looks bad (obviously, it is less than 3.5, but my degree is higher than 2:1) - but I excelled during my BE. The people at Said admissions aren't that closed-minded / pig-headed, and they will understand different methodologies for different countries. So if you happen to be an Aussie, having a GPA of about 2.8 is the equivalent of a 2:1 degree.
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Last edited by MackyCee on 30 Dec 2010, 03:51, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 29 Dec 2010, 17:41
Another illustration is the high sensitivity of the GPA.

My % Avg Grades:
BE: 79.41%
MEngSc: 80.38%

My GPAs:
BE: 3.37
MEngSc: 3.69

As you can see, a <1% difference in marks nets a >0.3 difference in GPA - which is quite pronounced!
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2010, 03:11
I can not agree more with MC.

I think as long as you are within top 10-15% of your class you should not worry about the GPA requirement. (Though, I would consider the grduation institute as a factor as someone in top 10% of IIT will be considered much better than another candidate from local engineering college but in top2% of the class).

If you think you have a strong application to put forward your case, go for it. 3.5 GPA in US system = 2:1 in UK system but I would not think that your GPA would be the crucial factor in application, GMAT and work experience would be.

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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2010, 06:23
MackyCee wrote:
widerangeinput wrote:
Hi all,

Is it true that Said requires a minimum GPA of 3.5/4.0? I am an international applicant to-be with a sub 3.5 GPA and am really curious if this is true. Said is one of my top picks and I would be pretty sorry if that's indeed the case. many thanks in advance-

edit:
Quote:
"Requirements
To apply for the Oxford MBA, you should have:

1. A good undergraduate degree or equivalent

As guidance, a 2.1 degree (GPA 3.5 or its equivalent). Applicants who do not hold such a qualification may be considered if they have a very strong employment record demonstrating a high degree of responsibility."


OK. This clearly brings the deal out. However, still, ever heard of a case like this- where someone with <3.5 getting in?
Or (specifically for those of you who had already got in) what do you understand from this "very strong employment record"?
Honestly, I don't understand this sort of GPA discrimination :cry:



It's all relative (I hope!).

See this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_un ... sification

A degree may be awarded with or without honours, with the class of an honours degree based on the average mark of the assessed work a candidate has completed. Below is a list of the possible classifications with common abbreviations.

First-class Honours (1st)
Second-class Honours, upper division (2:1)
Second-class Honours, lower division (2:2)
Third-class Honours (3rd)
Ordinary-Degree (Pass)

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_un ... sification)

In Australia:- 1st Class Honours Degree (well, in Engineering at least), requires a 75% average, or, an approx 3.2 GPA (this will generally get you top 5% of ur graduating class in an Engineering Degree). It seems counter-intuitive (a 75% should be a 3.5GPA), but I had 12 HDs, 8 Ds, 8Cs, and 1P with an avg of 79.4%, a GPA of 3.37 - and finished with very "comfortable" First Class Honours. The majority of my C's were above 70%, with 2 of them being 74% (JUST missing out on a D). Before you freak out - see below for what HD, D, C and P mean! The split is not even between graduations either (there is a 0.5 point gap between HD & D, while there is a 1 point gap between D & C).

- 2:1 requires a 70% average, while 2:2 requires a 65% average. TECHNICALLY speaking, someone with a 70% avg could have an identical GPA to someone with a 65% avg, because marks between 65% - 74% net you a "2.5" on the GPA scale.

- There are no 3rd-class honours in Australia, with an avg of 64% or less being a "Pass" degree.

GPA Scales (Australia):
>85%: 4.0 (High Distinction)
>75%: 3.5 (Distinction)
>65%: 2.5 (Credit)
>50%: 1.5 (Pass)
<50%: 0.5

You can see the contrast between AUS and US, where a 75% in Australia is quite an achievement, whereas 75% in the US is quite average. This is because the passing mark is 50%, and there is no "scaling" or "bell curves" at Australian Universities. Your mark is your mark.


Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself here....I finished 2nd in a class of 90 Civil Engineers with a 79.41% Avg (3.37 GPA), the GPA looks bad (obviously, it is less than 3.5, but my degree is higher than 2:1) - but I excelled during my BE. The people at Said admissions aren't that closed-minded / pig-headed, and they will understand different methodologies for different countries. So if you happen to be an Aussie, having a GPA of about 2.8 is the equivalent of a 2:1 degree.


I dont think this calculation is correct cause you add Honours year together with normal ungrad years. I always trate them differently, e.g. in my resume i listed both of my degrees. I know some UK or here at Melbourne Uni award students with Honours title when they graduate from a typical 3 years undergraduate study. However, most OZ schools still require students to apply for Honours year. And this degree is equivalent to a master by research degree cause if you achieve 1st Class (2nd A in some schools), you should be able to continue to PhD study directly.

My CS Honours requires above Distinction Bachelor GPA to apply, which means a GPA>= 3.0. Most students in OZ who has this GPA will definitely be in the top 15%. My school only award GAP4.0 (avg. 80+ marks for all subjects) students as 1st class, which means you will need to get HD for all your subjects. It awards students between 75 to 80 for 2nd Class A and 2nd Class B for students between 70 to 75. However, if you convert these marks to GPA, you can have a 2nd Class A Honours but with a GPA 3.0 (for example, if you received 79 marks for all your subjects).

So according to Cambridge's requirement, all our 2nd Class A students are out of scope. But we are definitely top 15% student in my university. So will Cambridge consider marks as well or just purely focusing on GPA number?
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2010, 11:42
Jiang wrote:

I dont think this calculation is correct cause you add Honours year together with normal ungrad years. I always trate them differently, e.g. in my resume i listed both of my degrees. I know some UK or here at Melbourne Uni award students with Honours title when they graduate from a typical 3 years undergraduate study. However, most OZ schools still require students to apply for Honours year. And this degree is equivalent to a master by research degree cause if you achieve 1st Class (2nd A in some schools), you should be able to continue to PhD study directly.

My CS Honours requires above Distinction Bachelor GPA to apply, which means a GPA>= 3.0. Most students in OZ who has this GPA will definitely be in the top 15%. My school only award GAP4.0 (avg. 80+ marks for all subjects) students as 1st class, which means you will need to get HD for all your subjects. It awards students between 75 to 80 for 2nd Class A and 2nd Class B for students between 70 to 75. However, if you convert these marks to GPA, you can have a 2nd Class A Honours but with a GPA 3.0 (for example, if you received 79 marks for all your subjects).

So according to Cambridge's requirement, all our 2nd Class A students are out of scope. But we are definitely top 15% student in my university. So will Cambridge consider marks as well or just purely focusing on GPA number?


Jiang - depends on the degree...

Since engineering is 4 years (with the exception of 5 years at UTS) - a Distinction GPA is automatically awarded FCH, with Credit GPAs awarded 2:1 or 2:2 with no further studies required to get an "honours degree". This is the case for the main 5 NSW unis (UNSW, USyd, UTS, UWS, UW). I was offered a PhD directly after bachelors (due to the FCH) without needed to do an honours or Masters year - but chose the MEngSc (coursework), coz I didn't wanna pursue the academic avenue. Again, this may be because engineering is typically a longer degree - I'm not 100% sure.

The Aussies have totally hijacked this thread hahaha



Main point is - if you did well at undergrad (i.e. top 5-10% of your class) - GPA isn't the be all and end all. Perhaps see if your uni can issue you a letter of "ranking"...i.e. "Widerangeinput finished in the top 10% of his graduating class"
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 31 Dec 2010, 08:02
Cool mate, melbourne here :)

Normally 4 years means double degree in Science here. So i am not quite sure about engineering degrees. I remembered UW (their Computer was top in NSW i guess?) had same requirement as Melbourne unis when i applied for Honours. but anyhow, i have no ranking data but have a bold beautiful word "Distinction" in my completion letter. I hope it works. :)
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 01 Jan 2011, 10:10
FYI

Last edited by habeebee on 02 Jan 2011, 03:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry [#permalink] New post 01 Jan 2011, 11:39
Congrats Habeebee on the SBS admit! by the way, how much was your GMAT score? and which field are you from - i mean IT, finance or others?
Re: Oxford Said GPA Inquiry   [#permalink] 01 Jan 2011, 11:39
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