Ross 2012 - Calling All Applicants

I loved the event! period

A longer version: I was in between a few schools and I am glad I finally found the ONE: I liked my class (you, boring nerdy people , AA, and career opportunities offered.

My only 'dissapointment' was a presentation from one of Ross-related institutes - I did not get at all that they were doing, why and how. But that was just one wasted hour among three days of fun and great activities.

See you all in AA!!

Hey everyone,

Congrats to all the admits and Good luck to all waitlisters!

First, I did not get to go to GBR (sounded like a blast though!)

I have a question to throw out there for the fuqua vs ross prospectives

I had lunch with a former colleague (a graduate from Columbia Business who works at one of the prestige MBA employers) who recently tried to emphasize that Fuqua is a far better business school than Ross, and it is getting a better rep and will be a better investment long term. I was under the impression that both schools are, for the most part equals. He told me that Ross is way easier to get into (which I don't believe is true) and it is not as respected as a B school. I think he was just a pompous jerk--(also made some other arrogant type comments). I know rankings wise, both are very similar. However, do you all think that Ross and Fuqua will both always be "more or less" equals or Fuqua's momentum will advance Ross in the near future. Interested in hearing your comments on this matter-

Most of the people I spoke with who were not committed to Ross were Duke vs Ross (some other variations, but Duke vs Ross was the most common).

Based on my own personal info hunting, they seemed to be pretty equal with one main difference: Duke folks tend to stick more to the east coast where Ross folks are a bit more spread out. Employment stats are very similar (Ross seems to attract more dual degree/non traditional MBA careers) so that skews the stats a bit for Ross.

The same people chose to come to Ross GBR over Duke ASW. I'm sure there were people at Duke who chose Duke ASW over Ross GBR.


_________________

First, let me say this guy is the exact reason I am not even considering CBS at this point. That mentality is all too common there, and it seems they have an inferiority complex being so close to HBS/Wharton in the northeast.

The simple truth is that when it comes to b-schools there are two tiers: H/S/W and everyone else. The rankings will fluctuate and be different based on publication, etc. In the HSW tier, you are branded for life as a high achiever and people will notice. Outside of that (and I am including the rest of the glorified "M7" here), the school helps with your first job and at that point it's all about you. I know people from Ross that got PE jobs but Booth people that did not. I know people at Duke that are coming out making 75K and some at Kellogg that have gotten laid off twice in the span of 3 years after graduation. There are Goldman people at CBS, Yale, Tuck, Ross, Booth and Haas. The MBA journey is more about YOU than it is about the school.

And as far as future rankings are concerned, that doesn't matter much either. If Duke is top 5 in 10 years, how does that help you? If you are 40 years old and still relying on the USNW ranking of your b-school to get you jobs and not the quality of your accomplishments, that's a very bad thing. Again, unless you went to HBS, which follows you for quite a bit longer than any other school.

First, you post a question where/why Duke is better at Ross' forum and expect an objective answer?

Below option don't apply to guys seeking IB/PE careers (both schools probably suck) and is VERY subjective.

There are tons of myths and concepts about MBA and schools, I personally believe in the following:
- Brand DOES NOT matter 3-5 years after graduation. At that stage you're either a looser with a Harvard degree or a successful CEO with a degree from Ohio Onion and Potato College. Headhunters won't chase you because you're just another HWS grad, but will pay attention if you turned around Blackberry for example. I exaggerate but I hope you got it. I personally believe that smart companies hire people the same way Will Smith got into MIB organization in the first part of the movie. Both Duke and Ross (and Kellogg for that matter as I know many guys decide about that school as well) will open you the same doors and then it's up to you!

- Reputation (unlike ratings) doesn’t shift overnight. Unless 50% of 2012 Duke's batch tomorrow become Fortune top-500 CEOs or Ross would fill the class on the ‘first come – first in’ basis irrespectively of the GMAT/background, both schools will stay in the same league for years to come.

- What's your goal and attractions? Do you want to graduate from the toppest school you can get into? (and them then next month FT will place your school at 50th position because of poor canteen options)? What's your unique need and which school fits it better? – it’s up to you to answer that question. The cool thing about admission is that irrespectively of your choice a school wins but you may lose a lot (well.. two years in a place you hate is a serious matter).

In summary, most of smart alumni I met told that academics, somewhat brand, definitely ratings!!! etc don't matter once you left the school. What stay with you throughout your life is your friends and your network (NB: alumni database DONT EQUAL your network!)

I personally made my choice, so gonna enjoy life, new friends, cool campus, RedWings games and leave it up to the FT and the Economist to shake the world with new rating sensations.

The University of Michigan has one of the largest endowments in the country. A handout I received in a governmental accounting class listed the top 7 as: Harvard, Yale, Texas (mostly land), Princeton, Stanford, MIT, and Michigan. Duke, by comparison, was 15th, which is still outstanding, but trailing by some $2 billion.

In addition, Michigan has over 90 programs in the top 10 of their field, which is either 1st or 2nd in the country. There's no question that the current performance of the university combined with its endowment speaks to the long-term future of Michigan as a whole.

Speaking specifically to Ross: super amazing facilities, super amazing people, super amazing opportunities. Ross is a place where you can find incredible resources for just about any career, traditional or otherwise. Interdisciplinary work is enormously common, with a vast array of dual degrees to pick from, or even student initiated dual degrees. This all speaks to the fact that you can choose your own, well supported path at Ross. From a student perspective, what more could you ask for?

I will try to answer this question as objective as possible. I think with these forums everyone is fixated on the 5% difference of schools rather than the 95% commonalities. Having kept in touch with many of the GMATClub Admit class of 2009 and 2010, my opinion is that most schools in the same range offer the same opportunities upon graduation. This is not to say certain schools won't have some ultra-elite recruiter that recruits there such as a PE firm that only hires out of H or a VC firm that only hires out of S. But honestly, if you didn't have an IB, IVY (H,P,Y undergrad) + S undergrad, you're not going. So I will keep my 95% the same.

One of the post says where you graduate 3-5 years from now doesn't matter, I would say: WHERE YOU GRADUATE FROM DOES NOT MATTER ONCE YOU GET A FULL TIME OFFER. PERIOD. Basically if you're a Wharton - BCG, you're BCG. If you're Kellogg, Accenture, you're accenture. If you're Booth - Apple, you're Apple. Your MBA only matters for that first job (in prestige). I am not saying that it will not help with recruiting if there's an alum from the program, but the network is random. 50% of the BBA class at Ross goes into IB, with the rest going into consulting or Fortune 500. If you went by luck of interviewing with alum, then you should eliminate Stanford (240 MBA/Yr), Haas(200), Anderson (300), and any new programs like Yale.

The things you should consider rather is what area you want to be in both Location and Career. I've talked to GC people at Duke, there is definitely less consulting companies that recruit at Duke. On the same time, Ross has fewer finance company. Same with location, the biggest locations for Ross graduates would be Chicago, New York/New Jersey, SF/SJ/Oakland, Seattle, Minnesota, Detroit. Duke is mostly in the northeast/east coast.

(NOTE: This is less objective, more subjective) You should also consider the type of environment. Ross is known has being friendly and less competitive, a couple parts that I believe is the reason for this is, we essentially have no grades (since we have no GPA's), the class is fairly diverse in goals, 25% go into marketing, consulting, GM and we have a high group of non-profit/dual degree in sustainability. It makes recruiting a lot less competitive (in relative business school sense) when not everyone single person is going for the same 3 jobs.

I disagree with the momentum thing, since it works both ways and it is completely too 1 dimensional in thinking. If you go off the momentum theory, Duke may some day be better than Wharton. But we both know this is unlikely. Typically what happens is schools oscillate, if you look at Anderson, Columbia and Haas, they have had interesting last 20-30 years. Columbia at one point wasn't even an elite school in the 80's because of scandals, Haas and Anderson move up and down depending if each and west coast is in or not. This is basically how USNews and BW sell papers, if schools never move, then there's no point in publishing the "MBA Edition" every year for $12.99. Take undergrad for example, Harvard moves up and down and up and down every 3 years, I don't think the school changes at all in that time, but hey that's how you sell papers.

Another example from undergrad rankings (which is more pertinent to you) is again what area of focus you are in. In UG rankings, MIT and Cal-Tech is under H,P,Y. But if you're doing science and engineer, there's no way someone who pick P,Y and probably not H over MIT. Harvard barely is a strong school in engineering (ranked 20's). It's the problem of having a linear scale. It is very much the same in MBA, Ross does not have a strong IB program, we don't send that many into IB, and we don't have that many people interested in IB to start with. At the same time, Duke has fewer consulting/marketing companies than Ross. But again this is talking about that final 5%. I know Ross people in IB, and Duke people at consulting/marketing.

Great post you wrote! Exactly, the problem with linear scale is that it is good to measure temperature, but not ratings.

In many students' minds, the rating
1.h
2.s
20. anderson
means that H is ~20 times better than anderson, while in reality the school opportunities are clustered, something like:

(hsw).... (mit chicago).............(duke ross kellogg)...............................................(anderson)

I just got an interview invitation TODAY. R2 applicant on the wait list. Any tips?

It's the usual fare, if I recall. Walk me through your resume, why MBA, why Ross. Maybe a behavioral or two about a time you lead change or dealt with a difficult situation. If you've got a 2Y student, I think it can be slightly hit or miss, but should be a relaxed, friendly environment.

Congrats on the interview invite and good luck!!!

are the results going to be out on 30th of april?? any idea??

Got an invite yesterday, R1 waitlist, although I wonder why my email said that I am invited for an off-campus interview when I live in AA itself, is that just formatting?

Which results are you talking about?
I am waitlist(after interview) applicant from R2 too. All I know is that the final deposit day for R1 and R2 is May 1st and the decision date for R3 applicants is May 15th.

Yeah, gotta be just a form letter. Makes sense that they're not offering "on-campus" interviews with MBA2's since class/etc is pretty much wrapped for the year at this point.

Hi there,

Do any of those admitted have a clue about the strength of the incoming class based on the number of R1 and R2 applicants who paid the first deposit?

I think there wont be many who would not go to Ross given that this is the last batch for whom the option of a non-cosigner loan is available. Also, many schools have completely abandoned the non-cosigner loan system through which most of the international students benefit.

Actually, the non-cosigner loans option is not available to the incoming class. So I think the yield for international students will be impacted. Given international students are only 30% of the class, the overall yield should still be reasonable. So if you are an international student on the waitlist I'd say you are in with a good shot.

Id say only the adcom would know exactly how many people paid deposits.

Please cehck this link below
https://www.bus.umich.edu/admissions/fin ... gnLoan.htm
It says that the fall 2012 batch international students have an option for non-co-signer loan.
If Ross also doesn't give non-cosigner loans, then i am in big trouble. I am admitted at McCombs but I do not have a cosigner and cannot join because of the non-cosigner thing. Hence, waiting for Ross decision.

tejache, you might want to double check with admissions. A Ross matriculating friend of mine is international and we've only discussed the fact that the financing option was KO'd during the app cycle. If it had changed in his favor, I would probably have an email in my inbox with a million exclamation points of joy.

I could be wrong, but everything I've heard is the internationals are in a tough spot right now.