Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help

What are you expecting others to say?
From your post, you've already done the analysis. You already know what you want. Don't you?

What are you expecting others to say?
From your post, you've already done the analysis. You already know what you want. Don't you?

Let me be brutally honest here and ask some tough questions based on my own personal experience. Then I'll share my feedback.

--: Thank you very much and this is one of the right approach to get the fact out rather than goody goody lip services. I appreciate that. Let me try to address each and every question to the best of my knowledge. And I will not bit around the bushes!! I will be brutally direct too!!

1- You mentioned you're a non-EU. Non EU is a big group. Are you a White Australian or Black Sudanese? Sorry to sound racist. Believe me world is not colorblind. No matter how we wish it to be

--: I agree with your point and I know what you really meant. I am an Asian, non native English speaker and need "visa" for almost all countries. The "Non-EU" was mentioned to highlight that I will require work authorisation for any damn place!!

2- If you are a non-EU, do you've any sort of residency/work authorization in EU/EC.

--: No, I I will require work authorisation for almost all countries.


3- How do you define General Management? In my opinion and experience, MBA is not needed to progress in General Management. You need to have number of other factors and MBA is at last. I only know one school, IMD, which harps about it.

--: General Management is a big area, in simple word, Jack of all and master of none!! You need that kind of broader views and perspective when you move up and manage finance, operation, technology, etc under you. You need not be a finance whizkid but you must know the fundamentals to get the best out of your teams that are full of experts in various areas. Your job is to get the things done by the expert.

4- You mentioned you're working in an interesting domain. Are you really interested in career switch, function switch within the same domain i.e. what are you really aiming? You did not mention the domain so it's really difficulty to share any further feedback.

--: My domain is very small and very regulated/controlled. I would love to be in my own domain but scope of MBA in my domain is very limited. For simplicity assume Government. So to widen my career search, I would broaden to supply chain management or even to core sectors as those are fundamentally the same.

5- You mentioned about large number of IT/Indian students. You'll find them everywhere in every school. If you've seen school sites which share their students profile, you can see it yourself. Again IMD is one example. Although IMD limits the number of students from each nationality, you can still find Indians who will have US/AU/NZ/UK citizenship.

--: Yes true but it depends on the extend. Some schools last year did the blunder and almost half of the students were from one area. I guess more than 15% from one area or one domain is not a good sign. Over 30% is an alarm sign, does not matter even if the remaining 70% comes from 70 different countries.

6- Whenever I read ROI on a posting, I interpret it as the person wants to recover his/her MBA tuition fee+Opportunity Cost as soon as possible. In my observation, it's really link to pt 1, 2.

--: I have more important selection criteria than ROI.

7- The problem is compounded if you've taken tuition fee loan. It will be a nightmare to recover your MBA opportunity cost if you've to work in a 3rd world country on a local package after your MBA. I know a few cases.

--: If you voluntarily choose a 3rd world country on a local package, probably ROI may not be at the top of your mind. But if you are left with no other option but forced to opt for such an option, then there is some real issue. I am precisely trying to eliminate any possibilities of that happening at this stage. I do agree there are many uncertainties but I would like to identify the known issues atleast and accordingly take my decision.

8- To limit the damage to their reputation, some expensive and highly ranked schools are very careful selecting the students. For one example, I've observed a number of INSEAD graduates from subcontinent who have either dual nationality or work authorization/residency in a developed country. Go figure what does that mean.

--: I do understand what you mean. Ranking means business!!

9- Have you ever worked in an MNC in two different countries? If yes, you can figure how this question relates to career in General Management being an alien/foreigner.

--: Yes, I do and I know the extra effort you have to put to make it happen. And believe me, the extra effort is required during the initial period. Once you are proven, you are no more an alien. And yes, localisation of communication makes a huge difference.

10- Are you "dying" to work in UK after MBA?

--: NO, I am not dying to work anywhere. I am mobile for career progression. I would rather prefer to join a relatively low paying job, in a least attractive place BUT with the best career progression visible in 3-5 years time. I work for long term.

11- If you have traveled extensively, you should know middle east is a dumping ground of MBAs from Europe in general and from INSEAD and LBS in particular. Although you don't care about ranking, tell me how you'll convince a hiring manager that he should hire you as MBA from MBS instead of an MBA from INSEAD/LBS. Middle eastern sheiks are suckers for "grand" rankings and "beauty"....MNCs/Consultancies know it very well and also exploit it well. If you've been there, you'll also know it.

--: Linked to the above answer. I work for long term. Long term career visibility is important to me, not immediate Carrot or bonus. I liked your mention of "beauty" but then again, thats the reality ... and I am not going to Bangkok soon!!

12- I mentioned the previous point as I've seen many such cases and I feel sorry for them....but who said world just/fair.

--: There are different people with different objectives. Some are looking for quick win and some work hard for sustainable wins!! I fall on the secon category.

13- I read your objective. From your post i know you're 30+ (it can be 31 or it can be 39). In my observation, age is not the issue in general management. It matters only in consulting or some banking domains where boss needs a lot of young sheep in form MBA to sacrifice.

--: No dear, it matters a hell lot. Why do you think some of the ranked schools are scared to even interview 'aged' candidates. One main reason is, their career team had to work extra hard to find a suitable match. One of my friend is going through this phase now. Recruiters generally visits schools for entry level positions. Most of the time, they are not the right person to recruit relatively senior position.

14- From your post, placement is important for you. I can understand the financial commitments at the age of 30+. There is nothing much school can do no matter what school says. Your visa will be processed by UKBA and it will be your employer who would have to follow up with UKBA. I don't see school involved in the whole process. Getting first round interview should not be a problem. It would be later stages that would decide your fate with particular employer.

--: Not really. Visa processing is the final touch and in reality the least problematic area. The starting point is the contacts. You have to establish connection at the right level and continously keep on banging. Career section plays a caring role to connect you to the right lead. yes, you can generate your own lead but more fruitful leads will be generated from the career sections.

15- Now the brutal fact. I myself carry a passport which needs visa for every country I travel. I'm always "randomly" picked from the queue for questioning. For most countries where my employer has offices, I cannot get work visa. I just travel on short term business visas. My employer hates it but I still have something extra to offer and so far it has not find my suitable replacement. I run 3 international offices on my business visas. Just to avoid this trouble, I only hire staff who are either locals/residents or have preferential work visa treatment. I think you get my point.

--: Yes, I fully understand what you mean and I myself does the same. It is not about real hassel but it is more like percieved hassel and a feeling of being constraint by mobility of my staff ..... and then that common human behavior, why do extra?

16- Ranking, strength of MBA networking, school brand name in the region do matter. I still ride on the ranking of my undergrad university.

--: Yes, true but when both are almost equally ranked, the practical differences are not really visible on the ground.

career/placement service : - schools also play with it make career service highlight of their program.

--: Yeah, I know how these schools creatively hides most of the information and claims wonderful placement records. Claims a 2006 stats as recent. Merge few years stats, talks about recent employer but never clearly says employer of 2012 batch and so on!! The height of mockery is "stats is for 85% of the students"!!


1- If you are "too" talented, admission in MBA and placement is not a problem. You can go to top 10 schools in US like Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, MIT,....with scholarship. You would not look at INSEAD, LBS, IMD.

--: Before the talent question comes, I am OLD!! I do not want a certificate course or part time course. For me, MBA is all about interaction and mutual learning in the class. Most of the schools tells me in "one to one" that I am good but I am OLD for a full time MBA programme!!


1- The full impact of changes in UK visa policies is not known. A number of English speaking graduates used to head UK. The available career reports are from 2011. May be it will be another 2-3 years before we can know "with evidence" that what's going on. I really doubt that any current student/recent alumni will dare to speak "honestly" about it.

--: You are 'spot on' on this. Not many will ever believe it though!! Many people fail to understand the issue beyond the surface. Not many knows the internal approval process and red tapism for such an approval.

A few years ago when i attended my MBA interview, in fact I asked the similar question about placement knowing my age and overall profile. The answer was honest. I've high regards for that admission committee member (don't ask for the names). The answer was "If you are looking for immediate benefit or return from your MBA. This school is not for you. You should not accept our offer. In admission committee opinion, you'll gain immensely from MBA in next 5-10 years. That's the reason we decided to interview you". This was told when I was 35 years old already having double masters and working as a middle manager.

--: I am in a similar boat and the only difference is, prior to 2008, if you are good, energetic and keep on trying ... there were jobs!! Now the issue is, there is very very few jobs!! Now, you need something extra than your own effort!! I am trying to assess which school offers that extra support.

2- In recent years, a number of banks, MNCs moved their operations and regional headquarters to Singapore. It used to be a good place to be for post-MBA career. But recent change in attitude of local population, "who knows" visa approval policy has made it difficult for foreign graduates. A number of Indian/IT/NUS MBAs had to go back to India. Some how it is reflected good on NUS MBA ranking as it's translated as international mobility. Some banks/MNCs are relocating their operations from Singapore: non-core to India/China/Vietnam while core back to home.

--: As you know, I am from Singapore and hence I know the 3 unis quite closely and also INSEAD. It does not align to my objective. I had interns from all the three unis!! Be assured that I have carefully narrowed down to my schools.


4- I regularly meet some IMD alumni due to personal/professional connections. Most accepted Indians (and others from 3rd world countries) would either have dual nationality or EU residency. A school which boasts it's 90 candidates doesn't dare to take any risk. Imagine spending CHF 120,000 and being from a poor/3rd world country without backup plan.

--: Agree


Following would be my conclusion
1- If you're doing MBA for personal growth, just toss a coin and pick one. You've already done the analysis

--: I will ask my kid to pick up one for me ..)

2-If you're basing your decision on placement, it's difficult to get information with evidence. Recent alumni will not tell you anything.

--: Once again so True, you get some information but not really enough to be conclusive.

5- If you are not taking big loan for MBA, don't worry and take a plunge. Don't bet on school's placement service. Even schools like INSEAD can only help 51% of the students. I'm not sure if such figures are available for your dream schools.

--: Classic!! This is so true and most of the prospective students never understand this. Half of the placements that school boasts about are just personal effort and school has absolutely no contribution to be blunt. Unfortunately, we do not have that kind of visibility from outside and current students/alumni are equally clueless.

From your previous posts, it appears you're based in Singapore. I'm not sure whether you're a Singaporean, PR or just an EP holder. I regularly visit Singapore and aware of current dynamics of employment situation i.e. tightening of criteria of EP, sentiments against foreigners, job relocation, cost of living and other related issues.
If you're a Singaporean (or have lived in Singapore for long) and have researched employment reports of INSEAD and IMD, you'll be aware of perks of carrying a Singapore passport in terms of school acceptance and post-MBA employment. If you are/were a scholar, the admission and post-MBA career should be walk in the park.

I am not a Singaporean but I have the privilege to be a Singaporean quite easily. I know it will immediately opens up so many wonderful doors for me. But I don't want to change my citizenship. Logically it does not make any sense but it's my personal choice!! The good part is, I am eligible to work in Singapore anytime!!

GMATMBAtroll, Seriously man you can become an Admissions Consultant.
You know a lot more than the admission consultant guys on forums doing advertising 24 * 7.

Why are you breaking the rice bowl of those poor Admissions Consultant? Let them have their living!!

However lot of lies/half-truths/subtle advertising goes on MBA fora which someday hope to expose.

@wouldbecrazy

1. Do you feel that the additional 6 months window in MBS will help in any way to get a job?
>>> That is difficult to answer. You can have job offer after 6 months into your studies or may be on the last day of your visa expiry. Nobody will know. This is only applicable if you are looking for job in UK. If you're willing to move to any other place, it should not matter. In uncertain business world of today, anything can happen. Instead, you should have a backup/alternative plan in case you cannot secure a job in UK.

2. Do you feel that the internship in MBS may land you in a job?
>>> Internship will definitely help if you are changing your career but it is not guarantee. Mostly, it's true for consulting and banking. In my case, it was my post grad in Systems Engineering (Operations Research) which opened the door in General Management and MBA pushed me up the ranks. You'll need to assess based on your profile whether you really need internship for position in GM.

The most important and crucial part was how does the placement happens in reality. It was an eye opener for me. Ofcourse I did not expected campus interviews but I had no ideas about various avenues, their timing, their process and their success rate. After knowing the entire process, I am a bit at ease with the placement issue. I might have been paranoid about placement!!

Thank you everyone.

If possible, it will be good if you can share your insight that you have gotten related to placement. There will plenty others who would want to know this information but will not have to courage to ask.