ethnix wrote:
MacFauz wrote:
Most schools do not require a TOEFL if your undergraduate course was entirely in English..
Yes that's fine, but I wasn't
There are some people out there who really take their courses in their native language which must not be English even if you attempt to got the US afterwards
Well Toefl might not be in general as easy as possible, but to argue with the average score is difficult. We are talking about Ivy League applicants, but TOEFL is taken by a large number of students, simply applying for a bachelor's programme with a obligatory term abroad e.g. So in general I would suppose Toefl test takers are on average less prepared and worse English speaker than GMAT applicants. GMAT is necessary almost only for English speaking programmes. I'm for example German. The average score for German Toefl Takers was 96 in 2011. And hell I know all the people that take that test and that most take those tests when they come from high school, most of all without any experience abroad. So I don't see a reason why this qualifies you to speak an adequate English for Ivy while GMAT doesn't. At least they could substitute the Toefl for those who had a score of xy in verbal or something. The redundancy of tests does not help anyone, especially not the committees.
I understand your situation.. Anyway, to my knowledge anyone who is able to hold a proper formal conversation in good english will not have any problem tackling the TOEFL. As far as the logic behind requiring a TOEFL is concerned, its a matter of uniformity and sometimes the truth is that there is no logic.
Below are some examples of people who are required to take the TOEFL and people who do not as per Stanford's requirements.
The following examples illustrate whether or not you are required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE:
Xiaogu from China went to Beijing for his undergraduate degree. Since the language of instruction was Mandarin, he is required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE.
Ning from China got her undergraduate degree in London and is not required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE because the language of instruction was English.
James from the United Kingdom went to Germany for his undergraduate degree and is required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE (even though he is a native English speaker) because the language of instruction at the university was German.
Suki from Japan received her undergraduate degree from a US college where the language of instruction was all in English and is therefore not required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE.
Fayza from Pakistan went to school in Islamabad where the language of instruction at her university was entirely in English, therefore she is not required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE.
Chin from China went to Shanghai for her undergraduate degree but then went to Sydney for a graduate degree. Chin is not required to take the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE because the TOEFL-IELTS-PTE requirement is waived for any applicant with an undergraduate or graduate degree from a university at which the sole language of instruction is English.
There is a really good chance that James' english is much superior than that of Fayza... But you can see the situation...