Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns : Critical Reasoning (CR)

vivesomnium

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

20 Apr 2011, 03:16

Evidence that Joe cites:
1. appearance of crop circles.
2. preceded by strange lights in the sky
3. no human ever caught
Between A and D
Steve obviously and clearly refutes Joe's conclusions. He also provides alternative explanations. secret society might use communication signals such as light, and if it is a hoax, no human being can be caught 'making' them.

But D doesnt include the part of 'refuting' the conclusion, which the second part of Steve's statement vehemently does.

Chose A, but not sure, D is partial, but correct.

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

20 Apr 2011, 04:45

I chose D, but A also seems to be right since it talks about refuting and Steve's statement is very clear in terms of refuting Joe's statement.

S

thangvietname

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

01 Aug 2011, 04:38

D is wrong because "refute" is in the reply

A is correct because A is comprehensive. A cover both "alternative" and "refute" and so is good.

I dislike this question. Please, post oa explanation

If there is no OA explanation, we should not study this question.

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

08 Nov 2011, 08:27

1

Kudos

Any explanation on this?

Posted from GMAT ToolKit

synfist

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

08 Nov 2011, 10:37

re·fute (r-fyt)
tr.v. re·fut·ed, re·fut·ing, re·futes
1. To prove to be false or erroneous; overthrow by argument or proof: refute testimony.
2. To deny the accuracy or truth of

Joe is clearly offering alternate explanation.
But he is not refuting as per definition 1 . Even WRT 2 , Joe is just saying he does not agree. Joe does not deny the accuracy :roll:

Even otherwise Refute is too strong to conclude.

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

13 Dec 2011, 05:38

My thought is confusing between A and D, but I think D is better. A say refute Joe's conclusion. That thing mate me feel this is wrong because it does not refute, just explain.

a) suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion
d) offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites

L

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

23 Feb 2013, 14:04

1

Bookmarks

I'm wondering if you put the tag sub 600 level conscientiously or at random because this question is pretty tough (almost always this kind of question is pretty difficult)

(A)suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion

Ok he suggests alternative explanation but doesn't refute Joe's conclusion because this word is too strong. also notice the word \(MAYBE\) at the beginning of the second stimulus

(B)assuming that Joe’s conclusion cannot be correct. Again cannot is too extreme and morever he doesn't say that Joe's conslusion is not correct

(C)negating the validity of a premise upon which Joe relies in drawing his conclusion

No because once again the key word is \(MAYBE\). Ok Joe, maybe what you are saying is true, maybe not......but the Joe's conclusion is not negated completely

D)offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites

Yup correct. consistent means coherent, not against but on the same side of the argument, basically. At the same time he gives alternatives explanations

(E)attacking Joe's conclusion as inconsistent with the available evidence

Nope. clearly at this point wrong

Please ask anything if remains unclear

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

23 Feb 2013, 21:59

@carcass the joe's conclusion is :These crop circles must be the product of aliens from outer space.
what does steve says ? he says: In any case, I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings.
so isint he simply refuting that conclusion of joe is wrong ?
in other words he is assuming that joe's coclusion is wrong
i guess answer sud be B
more over where do u find steve's explanation consistent with evidence of joe?

L

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

24 Feb 2013, 05:20

I agree with your doubts. Basically the question is: is difficult to write very good question that completely adhere to a gmat-style.

Moreover, I agree on the point that B could be the answer. however D fits the bill much better in this case, if we strictly talk about the question.

Now: B) assuming that Joe’s conclusion cannot be correct

Steve doesn't assume anything. Simply because if he assume that then he probably could not say "I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings."

And this leads at the same time to the second question pointed out by you: consistent.

Is consistent because one says "someone that basically is unknown have done that"........the other syas: "no maybe is someone else that have done that - not the aliens but something ele that is misterious or eerie. As such, is something on the same side of the "moon". he didn't say: " NO. the diagram was done by Barack Obama", something or someone who we know to exist for sure.

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

13 Apr 2013, 20:29

Merged all duplicate topics for "Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns".

mohnish104

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

09 Oct 2013, 06:15

I agree with carcas. This is not a sub 600 question. There are only two possibilities. This is either a 700 level question or you are "Sheldon Cooper". :D. btw Carcas, you say that refute is too strong a word. What would you say to "I seriously Doubt", Isn't this deemed too strong on the GMAT?

B

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

10 Oct 2013, 19:51

carcass wrote:

I'm wondering if you put the tag sub 600 level conscientiously or at random because this question is pretty tough (almost always this kind of question is pretty difficult)

(A)suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion

Ok he suggests alternative explanation but doesn't refute Joe's conclusion because this word is too strong. also notice the word \(MAYBE\) at the beginning of the second stimulus

(B)assuming that Joe’s conclusion cannot be correct. Again cannot is too extreme and morever he doesn't say that Joe's conslusion is not correct

(C)negating the validity of a premise upon which Joe relies in drawing his conclusion

No because once again the key word is \(MAYBE\). Ok Joe, maybe what you are saying is true, maybe not......but the Joe's conclusion is not negated completely

D)offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites

Yup correct. consistent means coherent, not against but on the same side of the argument, basically. At the same time he gives alternatives explanations

(E)attacking Joe's conclusion as inconsistent with the available evidence

Nope. clearly at this point wrong

Please ask anything if remains unclear

d) offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites ->> says that the explanation given is consistent ,but that is not the case Joe says "no human has ever been caught in the act of creating one of these patterns" while Steve says "they are a means of communication for some weird secret society Or perhaps they are all part of an elaborate hoax by college fraternities" both of these alternate explanations have to be caused by human intervention. Hence Steve's explanation is NOT consistent with the evidence given by Joe.

while (a)suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion -> seems right since Steve has offered alternatives and refutes Joe's alien conclusion saying "In any case, I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings."

Hope someone from Manhattan Gmat can confirm the OA and give an explanation as well.

B

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

26 Nov 2013, 16:20

KyleWiddison wrote:

dentobizz wrote:

d) offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites ->> says that the explanation given is consistent ,but that is not the case Joe says "no human has ever been caught in the act of creating one of these patterns" while Steve says "they are a means of communication for some weird secret society Or perhaps they are all part of an elaborate hoax by college fraternities" both of these alternate explanations have to be caused by human intervention. Hence Steve's explanation is NOT consistent with the evidence given by Joe.

while (a)suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion -> seems right since Steve has offered alternatives and refutes Joe's alien conclusion saying "In any case, I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings."

Hope someone from Manhattan Gmat can confirm the OA and give an explanation as well.

Responding to a PM on this...

The correct answer is D and I will agree that this is a difficult question. It doesn't follow the format of common CR questions and answers A & D are very similar, making it difficult to decide which is correct.

Answer choice A states that Steve provides explanations to REFUTE the conclusion (aliens must be behind crop circles). However, in order to refute the conclusion, Steve would have to DISPROVE the conclusion. That means, he would have to provide evidence that makes Joe's conclusion invalid. Steve provides potential alternate explanations, but those explanations are based on conjecture and therefore do not disprove, but rather only cast doubt upon the conclusion (see how little words in CR play a significant role). The statement by Steve, "I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings", is definitely in opposition to Joe's conclusion, but it is an opinion - not evidence that could disprove the conclusion.

Answer choice D states that Steve provided alternate explanations, which he did (secret society, fraternities). These alternative explanations are said to be consistent with the evidence Joe cited, and they are. Joe states that no human has been "caught in the act" of creating a crop circle, not that humans don't create them. Secret societies and fraternities do their work in secret so as to avoid being "caught in the act".

KW

Thanks for responding Kyle. I did not take into account the subtle shift in meaning/scope-- no human has ever been caught in the act or seen creating them is not the same as 'no human as created them'

Kudos for the explanation

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

09 Oct 2015, 07:38

Hello,

I ruled D out because I understood that "and no human has ever been caught in the act of creating one of these patterns." would not be consistent with "consistent with the evidence that Joe cites", since the alternative explanation are both human. The way a see, the answer do refute the conclusion "These crop circles must be the product of aliens from outer space". I still think A is better.

I am glad that a question like this would not be on the test.

B

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

17 May 2019, 03:34

KyleWiddison wrote:

dentobizz wrote:

d) offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites ->> says that the explanation given is consistent ,but that is not the case Joe says "no human has ever been caught in the act of creating one of these patterns" while Steve says "they are a means of communication for some weird secret society Or perhaps they are all part of an elaborate hoax by college fraternities" both of these alternate explanations have to be caused by human intervention. Hence Steve's explanation is NOT consistent with the evidence given by Joe.

while (a)suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion -> seems right since Steve has offered alternatives and refutes Joe's alien conclusion saying "In any case, I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings."

Hope someone from Manhattan Gmat can confirm the OA and give an explanation as well.

Responding to a PM on this...

The correct answer is D and I will agree that this is a difficult question. It doesn't follow the format of common CR questions and answers A & D are very similar, making it difficult to decide which is correct.

Answer choice A states that Steve provides explanations to REFUTE the conclusion (aliens must be behind crop circles). However, in order to refute the conclusion, Steve would have to DISPROVE the conclusion. That means, he would have to provide evidence that makes Joe's conclusion invalid. Steve provides potential alternate explanations, but those explanations are based on conjecture and therefore do not disprove, but rather only cast doubt upon the conclusion (see how little words in CR play a significant role). The statement by Steve, "I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings", is definitely in opposition to Joe's conclusion, but it is an opinion - not evidence that could disprove the conclusion.

Answer choice D states that Steve provided alternate explanations, which he did (secret society, fraternities). These alternative explanations are said to be consistent with the evidence Joe cited, and they are. Joe states that no human has been "caught in the act" of creating a crop circle, not that humans don't create them. Secret societies and fraternities do their work in secret so as to avoid being "caught in the act".

KW

Dear Sir,

Does it not negate the validity of the premise on which JOE bases his conclusion? Steve outrightly comes up with alternate theories ......please help

S

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Re: Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

23 Sep 2020, 07:44

kannn wrote:

Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns called “crop circles” consisting of flattened plants in a field of corn or other grains have mysteriously appeared from time to time on farms in both the United States and the United Kingdom. The appearance of these crop circles is usually preceded by strange lights in the sky and no human has ever been caught in the act of creating one of these patterns. These crop circles must be the product of aliens from outer space.

Steve: Maybe they are a means of communication for some weird secret society. Or perhaps they are all part of an elaborate hoax by college fraternities. In any case, I seriously doubt that these crop circles are the product of extra-terrestrial beings.

Steve responds to Joe’s conclusion by _____

(A) suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion
(B) assuming that Joe’s conclusion cannot be correct
(C) negating the validity of a premise upon which Joe relies in drawing his conclusion
(D) offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites
(E) attacking Joe's conclusion as inconsistent with the available evidence

The answer is either A or D. The big difference is in the word "refute". Some bloggers contend that A is wrong because Steve does not refute Joe's claim. Does he not? Even if Steve does not refute that "these crop circles are the product of aliens from outer space," any alternative explanation refutes the conclusion: "These crop circles MUST BE the product of aliens from outer space."

B

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Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

Updated on: 15 Oct 2023, 23:14

carcass wrote:

I'm wondering if you put the tag sub 600 level conscientiously or at random because this question is pretty tough (almost always this kind of question is pretty difficult)

(A)suggesting alternatives that refute Joe’s conclusion

Ok he suggests alternative explanation but doesn't refute Joe's conclusion because this word is too strong. also notice the word \(MAYBE\) at the beginning of the second stimulus

(B)assuming that Joe’s conclusion cannot be correct. Again cannot is too extreme and morever he doesn't say that Joe's conslusion is not correct

(C)negating the validity of a premise upon which Joe relies in drawing his conclusion

No because once again the key word is \(MAYBE\). Ok Joe, maybe what you are saying is true, maybe not......but the Joe's conclusion is not negated completely

D)offering alternative explanations consistent with the evidence that Joe cites

Yup correct. consistent means coherent, not against but on the same side of the argument, basically. At the same time he gives alternatives explanations

(E)attacking Joe's conclusion as inconsistent with the available evidence

Nope. clearly at this point wrong

Please ask anything if remains unclear

I was stuck between C and D. Can you please help me in the elimination of option C? AndrewN KarishmaB MartyTargetTestPrep

My reasoning is below:

Joe's assumption: There are not other possibilities related to non alien or human activities.
Negation of Joe's assumption(or unstated necessary premise): There are other possibilities related to non alien or human activities.

So basically Steve is calling this assumption into question by offering alternative explanations. By doing so he is also negating the validity of a premise. Since assumptions are necessary unstated premise needed to draw the conclusion properly.

Originally posted by thelastskybender on 15 Oct 2023, 10:32.
Last edited by thelastskybender on 15 Oct 2023, 23:14, edited 1 time in total.

gmatclubot

Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns [#permalink]

15 Oct 2023, 10:32

GMAT Critical Reasoning (CR) Questions

Joe: Many large, intricate, and precise geometric patterns