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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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B

||ism: ... in the 1920's....in the 1930's.... B and C remain.

Problems with "first" and "moving" in C.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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how do we know that we need parallel structure for the two clauses in this sentence? (Although early ..........) and (they had........shows)
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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The answer I chose was B:

A. It does not make sense to use "had moved" in the past perfect tense because it logically does not make sense and it is not parallel to "were first aired." Also, "of the 1930s" should be "in the 1930s."

B. This sentence is correct because "were aired and were moved" are parallel and they logically make sense given the dates. Also, "in the 1920s and in the 1930s" are parallel.

C. The verb-ing modifier seems to modify the first clause, but that doesn't really make sense. This modifier also creates a sentence fragment.

D. "They moved" is incorrect. It seems to say that they voluntarily moved to the daytime hours when in fact they were "were moved." There is a slight logical difference here. Also, "in the 1920s and in the 1930s" should be used.

E. The verbs are not parallel. Also, it sounds like the soap operas were moved to the 1930s? This does not make any sense at all.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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Dear Mike

Since a long time I am carrying this perception that in subordinate clause and main clause voice parallelism is necessary. I am aware that we can keep different voices in independent clause joined by coordinating conjunction until such usage make sense.

Today I saw a question Q86-OG11, in which this concept is specifically tested.

Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.

(A) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's
(B) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's
(C) were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, moving to the daytime hours in the 1930's
(D) were aired first in the evening on 1920's radio, they moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's
(E) aired on evening radio first in the 1920's, they were moved to the 1930's in the daytime hours

I want to know how much strict is this criterion from GMAT's perspective or how far we can stretch this concept ? Could you please give some valid examples in which we can keep different voices in subordinate and main clause such as in if..., then or Although ..., main clause or any OG problem.

Thanks & Regards,
Piyush
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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PiyushK wrote:
Dear Mike

Since a long time I am carrying this perception that in subordinate clause and main clause voice parallelism is necessary. I am aware that we can keep different voices in independent clause joined by coordinating conjunction until such usage make sense.

Today I saw a question Q86-OG11, in which this concept is specifically tested.

Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.

(A) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's
(B) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's
(C) were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, moving to the daytime hours in the 1930's
(D) were aired first in the evening on 1920's radio, they moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's
(E) aired on evening radio first in the 1920's, they were moved to the 1930's in the daytime hours

I want to know how much strict is this criterion from GMAT's perspective or how far we can stretch this concept ? Could you please give some valid examples in which we can keep different voices in subordinate and main clause such as in if..., then or Although ..., main clause or any OG problem.

Thanks & Regards,
Piyush

Dear Piyush,
I'm happy to help. :-)

I don't think voice parallelism is the issue here. I don't think that's ever an issue. Verbs in parallel do not have to match in tense, in voice, in mood, etc.

I think the issue in this particular question is one of logic. Think about it. Soap operas may be lively and entertaining, but they are not self-aware entities to which we can impute independent intention and rational capacities. They do not actually "move" as self-moving actors. Someone (a network, an executive, etc.) has to move them. The choice of the passive in the second clause is dictated by the logic of the situation, not by some extra constraints on Parallelism.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
I have seen in gmat questions that when one event takes place before another of the past, it is generally shown by "had" - past perfect is used.
There are plenty of questions in OG 12. For instance,
Q19. The Iroquois were primarily planters, although they supplemented their cultivation of maize, squash, and beans with fishing and hunting --- because same time, same tense used. simple past and simple past
Q3. Although various 18th and 19th century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
Here, the OG states that past perfect had professed and had pretended designate a time (18th & 19th C) earlier than simple past tense so the second clause, explaining what happened around 1900, must use the past tense, and so it uses "began studying"
Q86. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased 5% during first 3 months of this year after they fell over the last 2 years... (here i have changed it to they)
The above underlined portion is incorrect because it fails to distinguish between the two sequentially ordered indicators, wherein the first indicator (increase of 5%) occurred after the indicator mentioned next (fell over the last 2 years)
Now, the correct option that clearly depicts the sequence of events is which have increased 5% during the first 3 months of this year after falling over the last 2 years.
Okay , the sentence seems better to me, but then I could not grasp what was wrong in my modified version, the original option (changed from it to they).


Now, coming to the present question, when soap operas were first aired in 1920s, the event of moving to the daytime hours happens after that in the 1930s. This creates a divide in the two timeframes. Accordingly, had been first aired in 1920s must be used...
Therefore, to me, the correct answer must be

Although early soap operas had / had been first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.


Even though this option doesnt exist, I do not understand why same tense can be used to modify two events taking place in different times with say approx 10 years between them.
Further, had / had been is what I could think.

Please clarify someone.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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talismaaniac wrote:
I have seen in gmat questions that when one event takes place before another of the past, it is generally shown by "had" - past perfect is used.
There are plenty of questions in OG 12. For instance,
Q19. The Iroquois were primarily planters, although they supplemented their cultivation of maize, squash, and beans with fishing and hunting --- because same time, same tense used. simple past and simple past
Q3. Although various 18th and 19th century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
Here, the OG states that past perfect had professed and had pretended designate a time (18th & 19th C) earlier than simple past tense so the second clause, explaining what happened around 1900, must use the past tense, and so it uses "began studying"
Q86. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased 5% during first 3 months of this year after they fell over the last 2 years... (here i have changed it to they)
The above underlined portion is incorrect because it fails to distinguish between the two sequentially ordered indicators, wherein the first indicator (increase of 5%) occurred after the indicator mentioned next (fell over the last 2 years)
Now, the correct option that clearly depicts the sequence of events is which have increased 5% during the first 3 months of this year after falling over the last 2 years.
Okay , the sentence seems better to me, but then I could not grasp what was wrong in my modified version, the original option (changed from it to they).


Now, coming to the present question, when soap operas were first aired in 1920s, the event of moving to the daytime hours happens after that in the 1930s. This creates a divide in the two timeframes. Accordingly, had been first aired in 1920s must be used...
Therefore, to me, the correct answer must be

Although early soap operas had / had been first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.


Even though this option doesnt exist, I do not understand why same tense can be used to modify two events taking place in different times with say approx 10 years between them.
Further, had / had been is what I could think.

Please clarify someone.




Hello talismaaniac,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :-)

Past perfect tense is used to present sequencing between two past events. The past event that took place before the other past event is written in past perfect tense and the latter event in simple future future tense.

However, sequencing can be established with the usage of past perfect tense only when the two past events are related in some way. If the two past events are not related, then past perfect tense is not used for the earlier event.


Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.

In the above-mentioned official sentence, the two events - the first opera was aired and later they moved - are not related in any way. These are two independent actions that took place at two different times. This is the reason why use of past perfect tense had moved is incorrect in the context of this sentence.

Both the events must be written in simple past tense verbs as we see in the correct answer choice.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
egmat wrote:

Hello talismaaniac,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :-)

Past perfect tense is used to present sequencing between two past events. The past event that took place before the other past event is written in past perfect tense and the latter event in simple future future tense.

However, sequencing can be established with the usage of past perfect tense only when the two past events are related in some way. If the two past events are not related, then past perfect tense is not used for the earlier event.


Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.

In the above-mentioned official sentence, the two events - the first opera was aired and later they moved - are not related in any way. These are two independent actions that took place at two different times. This is the reason why use of past perfect tense had moved is incorrect in the context of this sentence.

Both the events must be written in simple past tense verbs as we see in the correct answer choice.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Thanks! So you mean that the usage of the participle depends upon whether the events are dependent or independent. hmmm.. I get this a little. However, now I will have to start forming an idea about how to ascertain whether there is any relation between the two or not! Phew :( :-)
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
Hi egmat,

Please could you help me understand if there is any difference between


(A) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's

(B) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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Hoozan wrote:
Hi egmat,

Please could you help me understand if there is any difference between


(A) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's

(B) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's
Hi Hoozan,

Yes, we need in, because it goes with moved (meaning call). That is, it tells us when they were moved. Read it like this:
1. They were moved to X in the 1930s.

instead of
2. They were moved to X of the 1930s.
Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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Hello Experts,
Could you clarify these 2 versions? Is there any difference in this 2 versions you think?

Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.

Although early soap operas were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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ywilfred wrote:
Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.


(A) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they had moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's

(B) were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's

(C) were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, moving to the daytime hours in the 1930's

(D) were aired first in the evening on 1920's radio, they moved to the daytime hours of the 1930's

(E) aired on evening radio first in the 1920's, they were moved to the 1930's in the daytime hours


This question is based on Tense and Construction.

The sentence gives us information about soap operas in two decades – the 1920’s and the 1930’s. The two pieces of information must be conveyed in verb forms that are consistent with each other.

In Option A, the verb forms are not consistent. The verb “were aired” is in the simple past tense in the passive voice, but the verb “had moved” is in the past perfect tense in the active voice. The active voice implies that the soap operas chose to move to the daytime hours; since this meaning is illogical, Option A can be eliminated.

Option C is incomplete. It is made up of a subordinate clause - Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's – and a participle clause - moving to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows. So, Option C can also be eliminated.

Option D repeats the error in Option A. The first part of the sentence is in the passive voice and the second part of the sentence is in the active voice. The verb in the simple past tense “moved” conveys the idea that the soap operas chose to move to the daytime hours. So, Option D can also be eliminated.

Option E contains the same error as Options A and D, but in the reverse. In this option, the verb “aired” is in the active voice, implying that the soap operas did the action. So, Option E can also be eliminated.

In Option B, the verbs – were aired and were moved - are in the passive voice and are parallel, conveying the intended meaning that they were aired and were moved by the people in charge. Therefore, B is the most appropriate option.

Jayanthi Kumar.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
TheUltimateWinner wrote:
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Hello Experts,
Could you clarify these 2 versions? Is there any difference in this 2 versions you think?

Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.

Although early soap operas were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.




Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.
operas were first aired and then did what? -- then were moved to xx

Although early soap operas were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.[/quote]

I think you might answer yourself by now.

Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.
operas were first aired and then did what? -- then were moved to xx

Although early soap operas were aired first on evening radio in the 1920's, they were moved to the daytime hours in the 1930's when the evening schedule became crowded with comedians and variety shows.[/quote]
Operas were aired first on evening radio and then on ? - TV? Morning radio ?
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
GMATNinja mikemcgarry

How important is the "first aired" vs. "aired first" split? I was able to get away with not considering it for this question but I'm wondering if it can act as a valid decision point for harder questions.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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achloes

It does make a difference in meaning. "First aired" would mean "aired for the first time." With "aired first," we'd expect to see a sequence: they aired first in this place, and then in that. Or they aired first in the evening, before some other program.
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Re: Although early soap operas were first aired on evening radio in the 19 [#permalink]
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