Rankings down the years...

Yes, I am definitely leaning towards Ross And dont think I have the enthu to go through this process. I spent some time going through the major employer reports for both K and Ross and K definitely has a HUGE advantage when it comes to MBB and some niche firms (ZS, PE/VC) etc. But the rest, its a wash. In fact for some IB firms, Ross seems to have more recruits than K. The competition for those positions could be different for sure. Anyways- what I mean to say is that the same companies come over anyways

Abey- go to GSB man- we need some representation there. P and S are going to K for sure I think

RR, how could you?!?! With BW??? I thought I knew you!!!

https://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/fo ... &tid=75181


Just kidding, nice post, show BW the level of analyses that we come up with here.

While looking at these reports, be aware that MBB sponsors a lot of employees for an MBA at K and re-hire them during recruitment. So, those are not hires that resulted because of the K MBA. These folks would go back to MBB anyway and therfore K placement number at MBB is slightly inflated. At Ross, I suspect that there are very few folks sponsored by MBB. So, any MBB hire is a fresh hire which results because of a Ross MBA. I suspect K will still have a slight edge, but the gap between the schools as far as consulting is concerned, is very small.

Unfortunately I cant post on here at work, so I posted this on BW's forum.

Since a lot has been said recently about who is moving up and who is moving down in the latest US News rankings, I decided to see how things really stacked up overtime. Using all the US News standing I could find for the last decade (can't find 2000 or 2001 unfortunately), I calculated their rank by using 10pts for 1st place decreasing to 1pt for 10th place, in parenthesis are the point totals. Not surprisingly the M7 are the ONLY schools to be in the top 10 every single year, Haas was extremely close only falling off once. Duke took a big hit in 2004 dropping off the list since then but before that was a solid member of the top 10 (I believe they expanded their class size around that point) had they stayed on they would have been right there with Haas.

US News
1. Harvard (87)
2. Stanford (85)
3. Wharton (71)
4. Kellogg (62)
5. MIT (61)
6. Chicago (39)
7. Columbia (31)
8. Haas (28)
9. Tuck (20)
10. Duke (14)
11. Ross (8)
12. NYU (2)
13. UCLA (2)
14. Darden (1)

While US News is typically regarded as the most accurate ranking available, BW is viewed as the #2. An interesting observation with BW is who has showed up on every Top 10 they have ever done (1988 to present) HBS, Kellogg, Ross, and Wharton…while Chicago, Columbia, and Stanford all failed to break the top 10 at some point. This is a big difference between US News. **I dont know if their ranking method has changed over the years or has remained the same. Once again, 10 pts for the #1 ranking and 1pt for #10, total points in parenthesis.

BusinessWeek:
1. Kellogg (93)
2. Wharton (86)
3. Harvard (73)
4. Chicago (64)
5. Ross (55)
6. Stanford (44)
7. Columbia (30)
8. Tuck (22)
9. MIT (21)
10. Cornell (16)
11. Duke (15)
12. Darden (12)
13. Indiana (7)
14. UNC (4)
15. Haas (3)
16. UCLA (3)
17. Tepper (2)

As for what NC says about Kellogg's MC, I was actually surprised at DAK that there werent many M/B/B folks there. There were a lot of Deloitte consultants but I only met 1 person who worked at any of those. There were 230 or so people and that was divided into 6 teams, my team didnt have a single person out of any of the big three. There were three Del. and a couple women who were from the same boutique but that was it. Not sure if the other groups had a bunch but I didnt get the sense there were a lot there. The guy who worked for the big name firm wasnt planning on going back, he didnt want to travel anymore.

I did meet a few students who interned and were heading back, they happened to be former engineers (could have been who I was talking to).

is there any specific reason you're starting to look at these so much river, other than out of boredom?

Definitely interesting information, though I generally prefer to see the trends than just the summary when it comes to aggregate rankings over the years (like the one you posted on BW). Good to see Haas is catching up to Columbia in the US News aggregate rankings. A few more years of ranking ahead of CBS and they'll be #7.

Kry complete boredom at work, what can I saw. Plus curiosity to see how schools really do stack up over time.

Well the numbers are a good indication of long term stability for the top schools. You cant really be in the top 5 of either total without ranking well consistently every single year. Looking at the rankings year to year, schools can spike up and down. Finding the totals you could divide by the number of years rankings are from and get an idea of its mean rank over the years.

I definitely think the Ross in BW is probably a big surprise to people. It seems to be a top 5 school or so year in and year out. Also it does show that Haas does better overtime than Tuck which is going to be very surprising to most people. I was also surprised to see Columbia really is fairly stable over the years, people seem to think that its a recent trend that its dropped in the rankings.

Keep dreamin', Kry, keep dreamin'...

oh you know it'll happen, dj, I have my crosshairs on you guys.

But yeah, river, I was surprised to see Haas do better than Tuck in the long term US News thing. Haas definitely got hurt by something in the BW rankings (especially the *17th* in 2004, what happened?!). Columbia's trending down is only a recent thing in US News it seems...

I think certain schools have a "regional" bias to them, thereby driving their acceptance rate down and hence improving their ranking. I feel Haas, NYU and UCLA and to some extent CBS seem to fit this category. There are a lot of applicants from the "country" of California who would not want to leave the city and the same can be said for the NY schools. Take Stern for example- it is an amazing school, mainly for finance, but do you think it will be ranked so high if it were say in Ohio?

I think an interesting analysis, which I am sure is not possible, would be to neutralize the location of the school and then see if it has an impact on the rankings, selectivity etc. Or in other words- to see if the local industry is the reason that the school is ranked so high.

Again- I am not saying one school is better than the rest and stuff and I could be way off but just thought that some schools benefit from the location than the others- and Tuck does not benefit at all.

Just kidding, river. I think this is a very interesting analysis.

just had a great conversation with the Haas career management person for tech companies. Got a good explanation on why the placements aren't always as high for schools that have "non-traditional" industries. It's as what I suspected. Pretty much it can be summarized to be the recruiting cycles of tech, non-profits, real estate, and startups (of any kind) are different from the IB/MC, such that they hire quarter by quarter, and sometimes don't even put out reqs until May or June time frame to catch the graduating MBAs. Thus many times the offer acceptance comes after 3 months after graduation (especially since Haas graduates in May).

Food for thought.

Good point about the geographical location though... It's amazing how good Wharton is being located where it is...

These placement percentages are for students that were seeking a job, right? Or does it count those like Kryzak too (who would be launching his $200m start-up by the time he gets out of school. So he will not look for a job)?

that I don't know, but about 10% of students went on to start something or join an early startup. I dont' know if they're included in the placements.

But for tech, non-profit, and other companies that hire very late in the game, some students hold out (especially in good economies where you can take this risk) until their dream company starts recruiting for the job they want.

Yesterday night I took around 15 min to see BW and US News rankings, take your own conclusions:

Love it, kwam! Thanks!

Actually this is the BW trend that I wanted to post to get the historically average TOP 10 BW schools, anyway, I will let both (so that K can se Haas).

I attached the spreedsheet on the previous post, so that you "can play with it".