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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
As bb said, THAT has various applications. The examples you brought use one of these applications.
kukulkan wrote:
Aho, a Kiowa matriarch, held festivals in her home THAT featured the preparation of great quantities of food..... <<<< Use of THAT is confusing here as it is not clear whether THAT refers to 'home' or 'festivals'.

THAT clause here is modifying "home". If it were to modify "festivals", the sentence would have to be written "...held in her home festivals THAT...."
Quote:
"The city allocated $150million to cover the increase in wages THAT it expected to approve....." <<<< this sentence is correct but I use my THAT rule and got confused whether THAT is modifying "wages" or "increase". If THAT needs to modify noun immediately preceding it, then THAT modifies 'wages' here, if THAT needs to modify subject, then it modifies 'the increase'.

Again, THAT clause is clearly modifying "wages" here.
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
Thanks bb. No offence but I am aware of general uses of THAT... restrictive vs. non-restrictive etc. This explanation can easily be found in almost all Grammar resources. But, nowhere could I find the use of THAT as a modifier, modifying subject or noun preceding it.

Also, you said the use of THAT in "the increase in wages that..." is confusing, which I am doubtful. I showed this sentence to a few people in my office and everyone picked the correct answer... with THAT modifying "the increase". I would probably have picked it too, but only because I did "Kiwo..." question first and noted use of THAT referred there in my notes, I got confused and thought of posting my querry here to get some explanation.

boti- THAT actually modifies 'increase' in the sentence and not the wages.

Hope some grammar expert will throw some light on this. No offence bb and boti, I truly appreciate your input.
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
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kukulkan wrote:
Thanks bb. No offence but I am aware of general uses of THAT... restrictive vs. non-restrictive etc. This explanation can easily be found in almost all Grammar resources. But, nowhere could I find the use of THAT as a modifier, modifying subject or noun preceding it.

Also, you said the use of THAT in "the increase in wages that..." is confusing, which I am doubtful. I showed this sentence to a few people in my office and everyone picked the correct answer... with THAT modifying "the increase". I would probably have picked it too, but only because I did "Kiwo..." question first and noted use of THAT referred there in my notes, I got confused and thought of posting my querry here to get some explanation.

boti- THAT actually modifies 'increase' in the sentence and not the wages.

Hope some grammar expert will throw some light on this. No offence bb and boti, I truly appreciate your input.


You are asking a style question rather than grammar - there is no rule which object/noun is modified by THAT - there may be 1, 2, 3, etc nouns modified by THAT. What matters on the gmat is that the sentence is clear and has proper style.

The only difference between the two sentence that i can think is:
festivals and home - 2 objects (unclear which is modified as either can be)
increase in wages - 1 compound object and therefore modified by THAT (increase is not the subject of the sentence, however. City is the subject.).
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
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kukulkan wrote:
This explanation can easily be found in almost all Grammar resources.



By the way, would be great if you could post some links to a few GOOD grammar resources.
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
bb, the following link is one of the best in my books. You can almost find anything that you are looking for- not just for GMAT purposes, but for general writing, etc. This is a terrific collection of online resources.

I have no doubt that you and probably most of the forum members already know about this source.

https://writing-program.uchicago.edu/res ... rammar.htm

once in, you can choose from American Heritage site, Darling's guide, common errors in english, and many more from the collection.
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
Am taking the liberty to dig out an old post that carries an important subject which has been discussed numerous times. Till date, I haven't found an authentic answer (from GMAT's point of view in particular).

Has anyone been able to come up with authentic GMAT-approved synopsis regarding the subject raised herein?

kukulkan wrote:
I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would appreciate some help.

From my understanding,THAT modifies the noun immediately preceding it... is this correct?
Or should THAT modify subject immediately preceding it?

Ex.
Aho, a Kiowa matriarch, held festivals in her home THAT featured the preparation of great quantities of food..... <<<< Use of THAT is confusing here as it is not clear whether THAT refers to 'home' or 'festivals'.

"The city allocated $150million to cover the increase in wages THAT it expected to approve....." <<<< this sentence is correct but I use my THAT rule and got confused whether THAT is modifying "wages" or "increase". If THAT needs to modify noun immediately preceding it, then THAT modifies 'wages' here, if THAT needs to modify subject, then it modifies 'the increase'.

Can the same rule be applied to the use of WHICH? What does WHICH modify, the subject or the noun preceding it? My understanding is that WHICH modifies the subject of the clause preceding it.


What do I write in my GMAT grammar rules?

PLEASE HELP :?
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
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kukulkan wrote:
bb, the following link is one of the best in my books. You can almost find anything that you are looking for- not just for GMAT purposes, but for general writing, etc. This is a terrific collection of online resources.

I have no doubt that you and probably most of the forum members already know about this source.

https://writing-program.uchicago.edu/res ... rammar.htm

once in, you can choose from American Heritage site, Darling's guide, common errors in english, and many more from the collection.



This is tricky. You're wrong when you say "that" modifies the noun immediately preceding it. Here's how it works.

Suppose the following structure

NOUN1 + PREPOSITION + NOUN2 + THAT

Here that can refer either to NOUN1 or to NOUN2, only using the context and the verb you'll know to which one that refers. The same reasoning can be applied to which. However, looking at examples in OFFICIAL PROBLEMS I've noticed the following pattern

if you have NOUN1 + PREPOSITION + NOUN2 + THAT normally that refers to NOUN1
here are some examples extracted from OFFICIAL PROBLEMS (I'm writing this in capitals because it is the resource you should mainly use in SC)

Problem 116 OG 11
Out of America's fascination with all things antique has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that is bringing

GMAT prep sentence
dolphins are more closely related to some of the oldest known even-toed ungulates—a group of hoofed mammals that today includes cows, camels, pigs, and hippos

Problem 34 verbal review second edition
people tend to overestimate the amount of energy used by visible equipment, such as lights, that must be turned on and off

an exception to this pattern is the structure

one of X that ... here that refers to X

a higher interest rate is only one of the factors that keep


look for more sentences among official resources.

On the other hand if you have a sentence with the following structure

NOUN1 + PREPOSITION + NOUN2, WHICH

normally which refers to noun2. This is the common situation that appears in most problems. However is possible that which refers to noun 1 without the comma. Look at the following GMAT prep sentence

Changes in sea level result not only from changes in water temperature, which affect water density, but also from the melting of glaciers

you don't have a problem here because changes is plural and the verb affect agrees with it.

To sum up, although in general that refers to the preceding noun, there are some exceptions especially when the preceding noun comes in a prepositional phrase.

let me know if this makes sense
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
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Re: I am a bit confused about the use of 'that' and would [#permalink]
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