Calling all Fall 2010 Consortium Applicants (merged)

Like I said I'm available via PM to answer specifics but let me take a shot at the questions as I understand them.

Do adcoms treat these applications differently than the general pool?
-This is very tricky I think if you ask a school they are going to tell you no. In a way this is only kinda true. Most schools are trying to get a certain amount of Consortium Fellows so it's almost like a different applicant pool. However, it's not like they are going to take people just to fill spots so you've still got to be qualified. The other thing is you might be a great applicant but not at the top of the CGSM applicant pool but if you've put together a great application you're still going to get in. I really do see it as risk less (except see below question)


Do adcoms read the core consortium essays (in addition to the school core essays) as part of its review process?
Should I go to the traditional application route?"
-Each school reads the core essays + the individual school essays. I often wondered if writing fewer essays (including the mission essay which I felt was my weakest) would hurt me vs. people who had a chance to write all the regular essays. After talking to people in admissions (after I got in), the adcoms definitely don't see this is a problem. Although it was very nerve racking.

I knew people who got full rides without getting into the CGSM through the application process. So if you can use the CGSM application I would. The advantages of the organization are more than I ever imagined. Your first thought is how do I get the money - but the experience and alumni network is huge.

Thanks for your feedback guys.

I think my biggest concern is writing a mediocre mission essay versus really good individual essays in the traditional route.

Based on your feedback, my feelings are not completely at ease, but more so than before you posted

hey guys... can anyone give a rough timeline of the consortium application process? i'm in the middle of applying to schools for fall 2010 entry, but when i go on the consortium website, it says that the application cycle is closed and will reopen in the 'late summer'. does this mean it reopens summer 2010? won't this be too late for fall 2010 entry?

thanks

they still haven't opened it for this admissions cycle, i was confused as well so i called. this was a couple of weeks ago, so while i'm not applying until rd 2, this seems alarming for rd 1 applicants as rd 1 deadlines are quickly approaching.

Actually, the application is up and has been open for a couple of weeks. Go to the CGSM website - Prospective students - and then click the link under the Application section (sorry... I can't post links yet, otherwise I would've added that ).

Be sure to read the application instructions carefully... I didn't realize that, for Round 1, the deadline to complete your interview (November 6th) comes before the application deadline (November 15th).

https://www.cgsm.org/CGSMApp/AppIntrodu ... irect=true

it's taking me to this page which says closed

edit: ok, the link is different if you click on the website versus what shows up in google...they should fix that

Google cached that page, since that page had the highest hit % and #. But yeah, that's the problem with google sometimes.
Best of luck,

yeah i was having the same problem... thanks for clearing that up

does anyone know what the recommender questions for the consortium app are like? are there structured questions that the recommenders must answer (like the HBS app)? or is it just a general letter of rec? i am going to contact my old supervisor and i want him to have an idea of what he's going to write to see if he will agree or not.....thanks

They are structured questions - shouldn't be anything tricky. Although you need 3 (2 regular and 1 mission) and finding someone who can talk about how you've supported the mission might be tricky if you haven't done work specific to any organization, so keep that in mind.

I personally asked this question to two senior ADCOM members from different Consortium schools last year at a conference. One of these individuals was very involved with Consortium “policy” and oversight. They were completely unambiguous with their response: apply through the Consortium. In as many words, they basically said it will help you get in. You will not suffer because you are doing a different essay - the benefits of applying to the CGSM far outweigh that. Scholarship aside, a legitimate CGSM application is a good thing and helps admission chances.

But what is a “legitimate” CGSM application?

I think everyone needs to be brutally honest here - the CGSM serves to rectify a pronounced statistical imbalance of traditional underrepresented minorities in B-school. We tread dangerous message-board waters whenever we bring up ethnicity and admissions in the same sentence, but the stated mission of the CGSM is to reduce the serious underrepresentation of African Americans, Hispanic Americans and Native Americans in both our member schools’ enrollments and the ranks of management.

Up until 2005, you couldn’t apply through the CGSM without being a member one of these three minority groups. Consortium policies were chanced to allow “other persons who can demonstrate a commitment to The Consortium’s mission and can best assist The Consortium in pursuing this mission”. A bit nebulous, but I think it is clear that if you are not Black, Hispanic or Native American, you better have a compelling and documented link to improving the welfare of these minority groups. The GGSM preamble says as much.

I have personally talked to people who thought that the CGSM was just something you apply through if you are “not white”, and then the conversation gets ugly – often on the account of the fact that the CGSM is not designed to in increase the representation of Asians, Indians, Pacific Islanders or other minorities. Thankfully, people here at GMATclub are intelligent and mature enough to hug it out, as Ari would say. I personally use this standard – if it were a “woman’s scholarship” that was also available to anyone who has shown commitment to the advancement of women in MBA programs and management, could I legitimately apply? Either you are a woman, or you have an indisputable connection to the issue, or better yet both. If it is at all questionable, I would do a traditional application.

Ron,

awesome words of advice, especially for a guy that's totally unsure of the whole process and whether it would be a smart thing to do or not.

but even so, it seems that i'm still left in the same spot. the cgsm rep says, in a completely unambiguous manner, "apply", "it will help", etc.

but then you say, if you ain't one of the focused minorities, then you better have a damn good reason.

so are you saying, IF you are black, mexican, native american, or a woman, THEN without question, apply via CGSM. BUT if you aren't one of these, don't bother unless your proof is indisputable and well documented?

I'm in a situation where I've done work to raise the profile of minority veterans, but that wasn't a specific job description and or passion. It was motivated by what I felt was a necessity because veterans come in all shapes and colors. Prior to me showing up at the organization, no focus or attention or even thought of minorities was ever brought up and so I self initiated a "diversity search" and got representatives from all over the country who were a color other than "white". But again, I did this because I felt it was the right thing to do in order to represent the community better, not because I had this burning desire to become the next MLK jr. the search and acquiring minority representatives for our group wasn't a "side issue" for me, because it was something that I certainly focused on for many months, but at the same time, it wasn't my main issue either as I had many projects I would easily deem as more important. after all that, i don't know if i'm what they're looking for. because i have no idea what a "compelling and documented link".

so the question is again, what exactly qualifies as a "compelling and documented link" for a non-"minority" applicant to apply via CGSM vs a qualified focused minority. who should and shouldn't apply? does a white guy need to go extremely above and beyond and go work in the inner city schools and start foundations while a black guy can just apply by being a member of the local young black professionals group? does an asian guy need to start his own feminist magazine and sponsor his own pink ribbon events, but a woman just needs to be part of a women's mentoring program? does an indian guy need to be a founding members of Homies Inc that helps ex mexican gang members incorporate back into society, while a mexican guy can apply if he was goes to his local food bank in east LA?

Yes I know I'm throwing out extremely outlandish scenarios, but at the root is still a mature and real question. what are the thresholds that one needs to pass in order to be considered for the CGSM compared to that of a minority candidate. will a person who is not considered a minority (white/indian/asian/pac islander) who has done work with minorities and in support of minorities, be 2nd class applicant, if a "true" minority applicant needs a spot but hasn't done any work with other minorities than what is expected for normal networking?

it's still very unclear to me.

lakai777 I think you should apply. Your story sounds compelling and if your "mission" recommendation can back it up, I think you're gold.

IMO, you would probably be best served applying regularly instead of through the consortium. The consortium's mission is to "reduce the serious underrepresentation of African Americans, Hispanic Americans and Native Americans in both our member schools’ enrollments and the ranks of management." (as was stated in an earlier post), or students who embody this ideal. You mentioned helping minority veterans, but unless they were going on to become students in business school or join ranks of management, then it's not directly in line with the consortium's mission.

if you want to take a risk, then by all means apply through the consortium. I think your best bet would be if any current consortium fellows could post about either their own experiences as a non-URM, or if they know of any other non-URM's who have been selected as Consortium fellows. that way you could see if it's doable.

I disagree with shadowsjc. Were these minority veterans you recruited serving as advisors to your organization or as chairs of subcommittees or special programs? If so that is clearly "management" in a non-profit environment. It's not always about corporate America.

Even better questions. And to be honest with you, I don't know - I can't speak for the Consortium. I'm just making claims on conjecture and what I've heard. Additionally, I never really looked at it from your perspective of not being one of the classically underrepresented minorities - that is a bit of a dilemma, to be sure.

My "gut" feeling is that you could definitely apply via the Consortium - you have a clear link to claim through the minority outreach program you instituted, and I am sure you have done some similar things in the USMC that could be documented. I really think this has to be strongly articulated, though - and most importantly, you have to believe in it. You have to sell the fact that minority outreach is important to you, you have helped that cause in the past, and will continue to in the future. If you can look in the mirror and say you do, you really should. If there is one person who is not going to bull$hit people, it is a former Marine.

The schools decide your admission on a totally separate slate from how the CSGM gauges your commitment – essentially, you are getting a few less essays and conveying the fact that you are applying through a well-regarded minority-outreach program. I can see your point – not being a minority yet applying through the Consortium might be seen as odd without a “knockout” story. I have no doubt that plenty of people try to piggyback the Consortium with unconvincing credentials. If you would include your minority outreach experience in a normal application, I’d definitely go Consortium.

I have known a few CGSM fellows from the past, and they definitely did not get their fellowships on account of just being minorities – they all did impressive things within their communities in and out of work, and continue to do so. Does a non-minority have to display even more to get a CGSM fellowship? Probably – although I doubt this is the party line. It just seems like a prima facie truth. Does being a minority get you an immediate +100 and an insurmountable jump on other candidates? I sincerely doubt that (Gratz v. Bollinger non-withstanding). In the end, your application is decided upon by the schools, and applying through a minority outreach program has to make sense. Personally, I think it can for you.

This has been an interesting discussion about a potentially touchy subject. I personally find it interesting how, as an Asian-American, I am definitely considered a minority by the military but not by bschools or the Consortium. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that bschools don't consider Asian-Americans to be "under-represented minorities". I think RonMexico's advice to go with your gut is spot on. After all, regardless of what you're trying to convince the Consortium or an adcom of, it will show if you're not truly passionate about it, especially in person during an interview. Keep up the mature and insightful comments.