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More discussions on if ... then ... [#permalink]
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More discussions on if ... then ...

Question:
If i say X happens only because of Y is that the same as saying X if and only if Y

Answer:
No. X happens only because Y happened, in other words, if Y does not happen then X will not happen. That means X->Y. If X happened, we know for sure that Y has happened. But we don't know if Y happens whether X will happen. So it is only half of the "if and only if" condition. Y is necessary for X to happen, but we don't know if it is sufficient.

Question:
I Agree that X happens only because of Y means X--->Y, that takes care of the "only if condition". Now in this example:

It gets "chilly in summer" because of the "unexpected cold front"

Does it not mean
unexpected cold front ----> chilly in summer

All I’m doing after this point is adding an "only " clause to it

Answer:
Yes the word "only" makes all the difference.

If you say X happens because of Y, then it means Y->X. It gets cold because the cold front moves in. If cold front, then it gets cold. Other things may lead to X too. When we see X it doesn't mean Y must be there. Winter makes it cold too, even without a cold front moving in. So when you feel that it is getting cold, you can't say that there must be a cold front moving in.

If you say X happens "only" because of Y, then it means X->Y. If you say that it only gets cold when there is a cold front, then whenever it gets cold, you know that there is a cold front. What you don't know from that statement though, is whether everytime when the cold front moves in it gets cold.

"if" and "only if" is the formal usage. "because" is simply common language, so you need to carefully read the sentence and translate it into the logistic languages. I do not think there is an equivalent for "if and only if" using "because", but there will be many other common languages that would express the same thing.

Question:
One more time. X is the only cause of Y. Can you throw more light on this. What does it mean and what does it not mean?

Answer:
Only X causes Y, no others causes Y. When we see Y we know X must be there. Y->X.

I don't think X causes Y every time though, so we can't say X->Y.

eg. Lacking food is the only cause of starving to death. If somebody is starved we know he must be in lack of food. But if somebody lacks food he might not be starved to death.
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Futuristic provided me with another good example for logic type CRs.

Futuristic wrote:
Not all tenured faculty are full professors. Therefore, although every faculty member in the linguistics department has tenure, it must be the case that not all of the faculty members in the linguistics department are full professors.

The flawed pattern of reasoning exhibited by the argument above is most similar to that exhibited by which one of the following?
(A) Although all modern office towers are climate-controlled buildings, not all office buildings are climate-controlled. Therefore, it must be the case that not all office buildings are modern office towers.
(B) All municipal hospital buildings are massive, but not all municipal hospital buildings are forbidding in appearance. Therefore, massive buildings need not present a forbidding appearance.
(C) Although some buildings designed by famous architects are not well proportioned, all government buildings are designed by famous architects. Therefore, some government buildings are not well proportioned.
(D) Not all public buildings are well designed, but some poorly designed public buildings were originally intended for private use. Therefore, the poorly designed public buildings were all originally designed for private use.
(E) Although some cathedrals are not built of stone, every cathedral is impressive. Therefore, buildings can be impressive even though they are not built of stone.


The first step I did is to symbolize the stem:
Not all T are F. All L are T. Therefore not all L are F.

The correct conclusion is that it may be true that not all L are F, but it is equally true that all L are F. If we know that all T are L, but not all T are F, then we know for sure not all L are F.

It may be helpful to think the other way. Some Ts are not F. All L are T. But all Ls may be the Ts that are F, or they may be the Ts are not F, we don't know.

So now we know what the error is, then we can proceed.

Quote:
(A) Although all modern office towers are climate-controlled buildings, not all office buildings are climate-controlled. Therefore, it must be the case that not all office buildings are modern office towers.

All M are C. Not all O are C. Therefore not all O are M.
Compare this with the stem.
All L are T. Not all T are F. Therefore not all L are F.
Note L corresponds to M and T corresponds to C. The second condition is not the same.

Quote:
(B) All municipal hospital buildings are massive, but not all municipal hospital buildings are forbidding in appearance. Therefore, massive buildings need not present a forbidding appearance.

All H are M. Not all H are F. Therefore not all H are F.
Again you see the flow is different. Both first and second condition starts with H, while in stem it flows like this: L->T->F.

Quote:
(C) Although some buildings designed by famous architects are not well proportioned, all government buildings are designed by famous architects. Therefore, some government buildings are not well proportioned.

Not all F are W, all G are F. Therefore not all G are W.
Stem:
Not all T are F. All L are T. Therefore not all L are F.
Exactly the same flow.

Quote:
(D) Not all public buildings are well designed, but some poorly designed public buildings were originally intended for private use. Therefore, the poorly designed public buildings were all originally designed for private use.

Not all P are W. Some nonW are U. Therefore all nonW are U.
Not same, don't you think?

Quote:
(E) Although some cathedrals are not built of stone, every cathedral is impressive. Therefore, buildings can be impressive even though they are not built of stone.

Some C are nonS. All C are I. Therefore some nonS can be I.
Again not the same logic.

For this type of questions it is very helpful to symbolize it, then you can ignore the contents and simply compare the logic structure. For this question you don't even need to understand the logic and find the error. Simply translation and comparation would be sufficient. However, it is often very helpful if you could understand why a logic is fause for logical questions.
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Another good example where logic can be applied:

Quote:
Brown dwarfs—dim red stars that are too cool to burn hydrogen—are very similar in appearance to red dwarf stars, which are just hot enough to burn hydrogen. Stars, when first formed, contain substantial amounts of the element lithium. All stars but the coolest of the brown dwarfs are hot enough to destroy lithium completely by converting it to helium. Accordingly, any star found that contains no lithium is not one of these coolest brown dwarfs.
The argument depends on assuming which one of the following?
(A) None of the coolest brown dwarfs has ever been hot enough to destroy lithium.
(B) Most stars that are too cool to burn hydrogen are too cool to destroy lithium completely.
(C) Brown dwarfs that are not hot enough to destroy lithium are hot enough to destroy helium.
(D) Most stars, when first formed, contain roughly the same percentage of lithium.
(E) No stars are more similar in appearance to red dwarfs than are brown dwarfs.


Fact: BD are similar to RD in appearance but RD can burn hydrogen and BD cannot.
Fact:Stars have lithium when first formed.
Fact: All stars but the coolest BD can destroy lithium completely.
Conclusion: If there is no lithium, it is not a coolest BD.

Ask for assumption.
Looking at the facts the first one doesn't do much except to tell us BD is cool. Two and three are important. The logic here is that all NonC(oolest BD) can do D(estroy lithium). Therefore if D it is nonC. Obviously the logic is wrong in saying if A is B then B is A. We know that all nonC can D, and some C cannot D, but perhaps some C can D also? Now look at the options.

Quote:
(A) None of the coolest brown dwarfs has ever been hot enough to destroy lithium.

Aha, exactly what we are looking for. Obviously it is assuming that none of the C can Destroy lithium, so that we can reach the conclusion. (If all A is B, and none B is nonA, then B is A.)

You then look at the rest of the options, and make sure there isn't something that is equally plausible. If so then you need to reread everything again.

Quote:

(B) Most stars that are too cool to burn hydrogen are too cool to destroy lithium completely.

We already know that hydrogen is irrelevent here.
Quote:
(C) Brown dwarfs that are not hot enough to destroy lithium are hot enough to destroy helium.

Obviously helium is irrelevent also.
Quote:
(D) Most stars, when first formed, contain roughly the same percentage of lithium.

This one is a little curious, but since we already formed our answer, we know this is not it. It could be the answer if the question stem is different. Say if the conclusion is that "It must be a coolest BD if there are lithium in the star." Then the right answer may very well be this one, since you would be assuming all D process should have been completed when you found the star, otherwise there may be some lithrium left undestroyed when you found a star even if it's not the coolest BD.
Quote:

(E) No stars are more similar in appearance to red dwarfs than are brown dwarfs.

Again we know this is irrelevant. It can be rather quick to go through the options if you already know what you are looking for.
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wow my head hurts after reviewing this material :(

I obviously have a while to go before going to battle with the GMAT
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Heh. It's perfectly normal. Logical CRs are perhaps one the hardest type questions. Just keep practising using symbols and you'll find the feel of it. :)
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Is there a way out for solving these syllogism problems with the help of Venn diagram?
I have heard it is.
Will any of the experts enlighten on this please?
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You could, I would think. However I think that may actually make the whole thing more complicated than it needs to be.
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Artemov wrote:
Is there a way out for solving these syllogism problems with the help of Venn diagram?
I have heard it is.
Will any of the experts enlighten on this please?


Positive Negative

Universal All No

Particular Some Some........not



1) Some A's are not B's means atleast 1 A is not a B

2) All A's are B's means All B's are A's

3) A positive + A positive = always is a positive conclusion

4) A positive + a negative= Always leads to a negative conclusion

5) a negative + a Negtive = leads to no conclusion

6) A universal + a universal statement always gives the followin conclusions- either universal/a particular/a no conclision

7) a universal Conclusion+particular conclusion =always gives a particular conclusion

8) a particular + a particular = no conclusion

9) All A's are B's
All B's are C's
the conclision is exists = All C's are A's and vice versa

10) Some A's are C's
Some C's are A's = a conclusion cannot be derived...................


All A's are B's means that A->B is distributed But B-> A is not distributed

Some A's are B's means A->B is not ditributed nor is B->A distributed

No A's are B's means A->B is not true and B->A is not true . So here both
A and B are Distributed


11) All A's are B's
All C's are B's
No conclusion since the middle term B is not distributed in both

For a conclision to exist the middle term needs to be distributed atleast once.................................

12) All A's are B's
All A's are c's
Conclusion is Some B's are C's or vice versa

14) All A's are B's
Some A's are C's
Some b's are C's and vice versa

13) All A's are B's
Some B's are C's
No conclusion since B is not distributed......................

15) No A's are B's
Some A's are not C's
No conclusion since both premises are negative

16) many A's are b's
All b's are not C's
conclusion is some a's are not c's and vice versa

17)All a's are b's
No b's are c's
conclusion :No a's are c's and vice versa.....................

18) All a's are b's
All b's are c's
Conclision exists as b is distributed once............All a's are c's and vice versa. Some a's are c's and vice versa is also right.......

19) All a's are b's
All c's are b's
consluaion: No conclusion since the term b is not distributed

20) All a's are b's
All a's are c's
conclusion: Some b's are c's and vice versa

21) All a's are b's
Some a's are c's
conclusion : Some b's are c's

22) All a's are b's
Some b's are c's
Conslusion: No conclusion since b is not distributed at all...........

23) Many a's are b's
No b's are c's
Conclusion: Some a's are nto c's

24)No a's are b's
some a's are not c's
conlusion: No concluaion sonce both premises are negative

All+All = All /some
All+Some = Some
All+No= No/Some not
No+Some = Some not

Hope the above mentioned funda's help

sincerely,
jyotsna
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Thanks HongHu for the awesome post.
And guys,these things are actually tested on the GMAT in one way or the other.
So, make sure u have a good hold of these concepts.
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Logic questions [#permalink]
I have personally found using variable and mapping arguments to be very effective in understanding CR questions. Can anyone point me in the direction of some books or other sources that will help me get a better understanding of this concept?

thanks
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It is really very helpful honghu.

thanks a lot!!!
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jyotsnasarabu wrote:
2) All A's are B's means All B's are A's


small mistake on this one.

https://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=49756
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all apples are fruits.

are all fruits apples?
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bmwhype2 wrote:
jyotsnasarabu wrote:
2) All A's are B's means All B's are A's


small mistake on this one.

https://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=49756


very helpful starting point for Logic / Critical Reasoning

https://regentsprep.org/Regents/Math/math-a.cfm
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Re: If X then Y, Help for CR [#permalink]
Thanks this was useful information
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Re: If X then Y, Help for CR [#permalink]
Nice post, information provided here indeed couldn't find in MGMAT CR book
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Re: If X then Y, Help for CR [#permalink]
do we get such questions on gmat? I think this concept is a part of logical reasoning not part of critical reasoning.
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Re: If X then Y, Help for CR [#permalink]
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