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First Ever MSF Rankings

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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   29 Jul 2010, 23:29
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Tier 1
1. London Business School Masters in Management
2. London School of Economics MSc Finance
3. Vanderbilt Masters in Finance (Owen)
4. London School of Economics MSc Accounting & Finance
5. Duke Masters in Management Studies (Fuqua)

Tier 2
5. Boston College Masters in Finance (Carroll)
6. University of Virginia Masters in Management (McIntire/Darden)
7. Purdue Masters in Finance (Krannert)
8. Warwick Masters in Finance
9. Washington St. Louis Masters in Finance (Olin)
10. University of Illinois U-C Masters in Finance
11. Villanova Masters in Finance
12. University of Florida Masters in Finance
13. American University Masters in Finance (Kogod)

Tier 3
14. Tulane University Masters in Finance (Freeman)
15. John Hopkins University Masters in Finance
16. University of Texas at Dallas




Ok, I think you have a solid list, but let mention somethings. If your goal is to work in the USA then you are going to have to remove Warwick. Not saying it is a bad school, but only a handful of UK schools will place well in the USA and I do not feel that Warwick is one of them.

UVA has a great program, but you cannot have a business undergrad. Most MSF programs admit finance undergrads. Not all, but I know at Villanova it was almost 95% UG finance majors. I think a lot of people looking at a MSF will have a business background which automatically pulls UVA out of there. Love the program, just more in line with Dukes MMS.

Most of these schools are regional. UT Dallas isn't going to place anywhere outside of Texas. Thats not a bad thing, just saying your list doesn't hold universally.

UIUC apparently had a horrible placement and is mostly international students. I prefer some diversity for an MSF program. Nothing against foreign students, just I do not think a program should be a majority of people needing sponsorship. Not in this economy anyway.

Take John Hopkins off that list. I have tremendous respect for the school, but it is a PT program. If you want to do something in finance then I would suggest their RE program. I think the MSF at Hopkins is going to grow into something great and is a good option for a working professional, but not for someone looking to break in. IMO.


I think the list should look like this. I wont use the word top nor will I rank them because like I said, MSF programs are regional.

UK and International - LSE/LBS
NYC/PHILLY - Villanova
Southern area and NYC - Vanderbilt/WUSTL
Florida - UofF
Chicago/Midwest - UIUC/Purdue
Boston/NYC - 1)BC 2) BU MS Investment Management
Texas area - UT- Dallas / Tulane
DC - American/John Hopkins

Vanderbilt and WUSTL have great MSF's and they can hit up MBA recruiting also since both schools have good MBA programs. U of F has really good placements and the program is pretty developed. UIUC has been around for a while and Purdue is well known. Both will do well in Chicago and Milwaukee. BC is a great program, but I think it tends to favor working individuals. Might be a great option for people who want to intern FT during the day. BU has a good thing also. I looked at their program and liked it for the niche it competes in.

Duke and UVA are great schools with amazing brand names. I think they are best suited for individuals without a business or finance background. I spoke to someone who was looking at both of these programs and he said that Duke alumni really blew him off. Maybe it was just him, but remember. These are both relatively new degrees. I know many people ask me what a Masters in Finance is. I cannot imagine explaining what a Masters in Management Studies is.

Anthony
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   30 Jul 2010, 07:15
AnthonyD1982 wrote:
Tier 1
1. London Business School Masters in Management
2. London School of Economics MSc Finance
3. Vanderbilt Masters in Finance (Owen)
4. London School of Economics MSc Accounting & Finance
5. Duke Masters in Management Studies (Fuqua)

Tier 2
5. Boston College Masters in Finance (Carroll)
6. University of Virginia Masters in Management (McIntire/Darden)
7. Purdue Masters in Finance (Krannert)
8. Warwick Masters in Finance
9. Washington St. Louis Masters in Finance (Olin)
10. University of Illinois U-C Masters in Finance
11. Villanova Masters in Finance
12. University of Florida Masters in Finance
13. American University Masters in Finance (Kogod)

Tier 3
14. Tulane University Masters in Finance (Freeman)
15. John Hopkins University Masters in Finance
16. University of Texas at Dallas




Ok, I think you have a solid list, but let mention somethings. If your goal is to work in the USA then you are going to have to remove Warwick. Not saying it is a bad school, but only a handful of UK schools will place well in the USA and I do not feel that Warwick is one of them.

UVA has a great program, but you cannot have a business undergrad. Most MSF programs admit finance undergrads. Not all, but I know at Villanova it was almost 95% UG finance majors. I think a lot of people looking at a MSF will have a business background which automatically pulls UVA out of there. Love the program, just more in line with Dukes MMS.

Most of these schools are regional. UT Dallas isn't going to place anywhere outside of Texas. Thats not a bad thing, just saying your list doesn't hold universally.

UIUC apparently had a horrible placement and is mostly international students. I prefer some diversity for an MSF program. Nothing against foreign students, just I do not think a program should be a majority of people needing sponsorship. Not in this economy anyway.

Take John Hopkins off that list. I have tremendous respect for the school, but it is a PT program. If you want to do something in finance then I would suggest their RE program. I think the MSF at Hopkins is going to grow into something great and is a good option for a working professional, but not for someone looking to break in. IMO.


I think the list should look like this. I wont use the word top nor will I rank them because like I said, MSF programs are regional.

UK and International - LSE/LBS
NYC/PHILLY - Villanova
Southern area and NYC - Vanderbilt/WUSTL
Florida - UofF
Chicago/Midwest - UIUC/Purdue
Boston/NYC - 1)BC 2) BU MS Investment Management
Texas area - UT- Dallas / Tulane
DC - American/John Hopkins

Vanderbilt and WUSTL have great MSF's and they can hit up MBA recruiting also since both schools have good MBA programs. U of F has really good placements and the program is pretty developed. UIUC has been around for a while and Purdue is well known. Both will do well in Chicago and Milwaukee. BC is a great program, but I think it tends to favor working individuals. Might be a great option for people who want to intern FT during the day. BU has a good thing also. I looked at their program and liked it for the niche it competes in.

Duke and UVA are great schools with amazing brand names. I think they are best suited for individuals without a business or finance background. I spoke to someone who was looking at both of these programs and he said that Duke alumni really blew him off. Maybe it was just him, but remember. These are both relatively new degrees. I know many people ask me what a Masters in Finance is. I cannot imagine explaining what a Masters in Management Studies is.

Anthony


Great post, Anthony! Glad to see you migrated from WSO to post this -- you are one of the few on that site with great insight.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   30 Jul 2010, 10:32
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Thanks! I appreciate the compliment.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   30 Jul 2010, 13:42
Great post Anthony. Really good information and accurate assessments of the programs available. I just want to say one more thing regarding WUSTL. The program is much stronger in the Midwest (Chicago) and Northeast/Mid-Atlantic (NYC, Washington D.C.) than in the South. St. Louis is really a Midwestern city (only 4 hours from Chicago). It is pretty weak for placement on the West Coast and Southwest USA (i.e. California, Arizona, Texas, etc.). I tend to think of WUSTL, Vandy and Nova as the best pure MSF programs in the US outside of Princeton. I would add MIT as well but I know nothing of placement for their program and I think of it as more of a MFE program than MSF.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   31 Jul 2010, 19:42
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Thanks for that info NBD. I get a lot of questions regarding MSF programs so the more info the better.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   28 Sep 2010, 13:07
Nova is T2? What about drexel/temple? Being from philly, I know that the city employment is populated with mainly UPenn and Drexel grads with Nova and Temple grads sprinkled here and there. Just an observation.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   28 Sep 2010, 16:45
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When you look at ideal MSF placements they tend to be in NYC. In Philly you only really have Janney, Stifel, PNC, Harris Williams. Outside of that there are a lot of boutiques or smallish PE firms. Many have Nova grads, but Temple and Drexel are represented also. If you go to NYC and look at finance grads the major Philadelphia school, outside of Wharton, is Nova.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   28 Sep 2010, 18:35
AnthonyD1982 wrote:
When you look at ideal MSF placements they tend to be in NYC. In Philly you only really have Janney, Stifel, PNC, Harris Williams. Outside of that there are a lot of boutiques or smallish PE firms. Many have Nova grads, but Temple and Drexel are represented also. If you go to NYC and look at finance grads the major Philadelphia school, outside of Wharton, is Nova.



Gotcha. I'm new here, what does "PE firm" stand for?
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   28 Sep 2010, 21:57
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Private Equity.


PM me, I am in Philadelphia also.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   16 Apr 2011, 21:06
I wonder if Nova lied about their b-school stats like they did their law school stats?

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia ... ls-in.html
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   18 Apr 2011, 20:29
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LOL


Trust me, if Nova was lying about its stats, they would be higher. Expect the stats to increase this year though. Additional applicants have allowed even more selectivity.

In all honesty, MSF programs really have no incentive to lie since there is no real ranking and with the fact that the degree has limited appeal, super high stats will just scare away a lot of good candidates in an already limited pool.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   21 Apr 2011, 12:52
AnthonyD1982 wrote:
LOL


Trust me, if Nova was lying about its stats, they would be higher. Expect the stats to increase this year though. Additional applicants have allowed even more selectivity.

In all honesty, MSF programs really have no incentive to lie since there is no real ranking and with the fact that the degree has limited appeal, super high stats will just scare away a lot of good candidates in an already limited pool.


True. I'm pretty shocked that they weren't disciplined by the ABA in any way though. Law schools (in general) can pretty much fabricate all of their entry and employment statistics if they so choose, and the ABA's nonchalant reaction to Nova proves it. It's quite sad actually.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   21 Apr 2011, 17:14
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GroverCleveland wrote:
AnthonyD1982 wrote:
LOL


Trust me, if Nova was lying about its stats, they would be higher. Expect the stats to increase this year though. Additional applicants have allowed even more selectivity.

In all honesty, MSF programs really have no incentive to lie since there is no real ranking and with the fact that the degree has limited appeal, super high stats will just scare away a lot of good candidates in an already limited pool.


True. I'm pretty shocked that they weren't disciplined by the ABA in any way though. Law schools (in general) can pretty much fabricate all of their entry and employment statistics if they so choose, and the ABA's nonchalant reaction to Nova proves it. It's quite sad actually.



It was internally discovered and reported. The entire graduate office was terminated and the school fell substantially in the ranks. There was a lot of fall out from it.


Law school is really over saturated. Three years is a long time and schools keep pumping lawyers out. That is the real sad story.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   24 Jun 2011, 05:56
MFINDreamer wrote:
(As far as I know)

Disclaimer: I am yet to choose a MSF/MMS program, but after going through the interview process at a number of schools and deeply researching many, I feel like I can make a fairly accurate list.

This is for individuals looking to get into Investment Banking advisory, Equity Research, Corporate Finance, or some other non-quantitative field after graduation (in the United States), both MMS and MSF degrees.

Tier 1
1. London Business School Masters in Management
2. London School of Economics MSc Finance
3. Vanderbilt Masters in Finance (Owen)
4. London School of Economics MSc Accounting & Finance
5. Duke Masters in Management Studies (Fuqua)

Tier 2
5. Boston College Masters in Finance (Carroll)
6. University of Virginia Masters in Management (McIntire/Darden)
7. Purdue Masters in Finance (Krannert)
8. Warwick Masters in Finance
9. Washington St. Louis Masters in Finance (Olin)
10. University of Illinois U-C Masters in Finance
11. Villanova Masters in Finance
12. University of Florida Masters in Finance
13. American University Masters in Finance (Kogod)

Tier 3
14. Tulane University Masters in Finance (Freeman)
15. John Hopkins University Masters in Finance
16. University of Texas at Dallas


Hey, I respect your attempt but this ranking is far from valid. Where is Princeton, Imperial College, HEC Paris and Oxford? I might have missed a few others as well..Besides, it is not objective. The names I have mentioned are better than some of the schools in the first tier and most of them in the second tier! Request you not to propound a judgement unless you are are qualified to do so and done the research it takes! Also, you cannot include MS in Management here..
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 26 Jun 2011, 03:28
Tier 1:
LSE, LBS, Princeton, MIT

Tier 2:
HEC Paris, Bocconi, St. Gallen, SSE, WUSTL

Tier 3:
Vanderbilt, Warwick, Boston College, Duke, UVA, Rotterdam, Florida
[though Duke and UVA would only be helpful for getting into I-banking or consulting, not S&T]

Tier 4:
Illinois, Tulane, Villanova, Claremont McKenna

I put Florida Tier 3 because this past year looks like they placed very well, but previously not so well. Not sure about Claremont to be honest, there's a few good placements here and there, but not really overall; usually a couple get to bulge brackets for IBD or S&T. IMO programs should be ranked on if they're able to place into bulge brackets or elite boutique banks in NY, SF, Chicago, LA (UBS/CS) or big 3 consulting. Also, if they place into similar quality banks in foreign countries (especially London, HK, Singapore). These are generally the most competitive recruitments.

Edit: Placed Claremont in tier 4 after reviewing their latest profile

Originally posted by sailtheworld on 25 Jun 2011, 18:15.
Last edited by sailtheworld on 26 Jun 2011, 03:28, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   25 Jun 2011, 20:07
@sailtheworld

yours is a pretty good one

why didnt you consider oxford in it ?
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   26 Jun 2011, 02:46
Alchemist1320 wrote:
@sailtheworld

yours is a pretty good one

why didnt you consider oxford in it ?


I was mostly looking at programs in the original post. Oxford would be tier 1.

The reason I place UVA and Duke in Tier 3 is because of their lack of placement in S&T.
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   26 Jun 2011, 07:19
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sailtheworld wrote:
Tier 1:
LSE, LBS, Princeton, MIT

Tier 2:
HEC Paris, Bocconi, St. Gallen, SSE, WUSTL

Tier 3:
Vanderbilt, Warwick, Boston College, Duke, UVA, Rotterdam, Florida
[though Duke and UVA would only be helpful for getting into I-banking or consulting, not S&T]

Tier 4:
Illinois, Tulane, Villanova, Claremont McKenna

I put Florida Tier 3 because this past year looks like they placed very well, but previously not so well. Not sure about Claremont to be honest, there's a few good placements here and there, but not really overall; usually a couple get to bulge brackets for IBD or S&T. IMO programs should be ranked on if they're able to place into bulge brackets or elite boutique banks in NY, SF, Chicago, LA (UBS/CS) or big 3 consulting. Also, if they place into similar quality banks in foreign countries (especially London, HK, Singapore). These are generally the most competitive recruitments.

Edit: Placed Claremont in tier 4 after reviewing their latest profile






Tier 1 looks about right, but I think it could be expanded for more Euro schools.

Tier 2 is fine for someone looking to work in Europe. WUSTL won't help you overseas and the European schools listed wont help you if you want to work in the states.

Tier 3 Looks about fine for a US focused person, but Warwick isn't going to do anything for you in the US.

Tier 4 could be expanded as well and I would disagree with even having a tier 4 since there really are only 3 tiers.




Tier 1 = Ivy schools or top schools --- Princeton & MIT

Tier 2 = Schools with strong brands and strong alumni. These programs are also mostly regional players.


Villanova, Vanderbilt, UIUC, Claremont, UVA, Duke, Florida, Purdue, WUSTL, OSU etc.


Tier 3 = School that are very regional or city specific. UT Dallas will be great for working in Dallas. Oklahoma would do well in that state, etc. These programs will have limited reach outside of their core area.



The reason why many rankings fail is the niche nature of an MSF. For example, I just looked at Tulanes placements. Tulane is very strong in the south and for energy. Villanova, a school I known very well, places entirely in Philadelphia and NYC. So if you want to work in Texas and in energy, rankings would be worthless, you should always pick Tulane.

Claremont has a great program with impressive placements. They tend to take a lot of people from Pomona (great school) and look for high GMAT scores. Their placements also tended to be mostly west coast.

If you want to work in Cali, Claremont is your choice, regardless of rankings.



Until the degree gets to be more known and accepted, ranking will only suffice in making the individual feel better about their respective choice. The MSF degree is not strong enough to transcend geographic restrictions.

A Wharton MBA can work anywhere. Outside of Princeton and MIT, no MSF program has that respect or brand strength to truly say that themselves.
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Master in Finance Rankings [#permalink] New post   26 Jun 2011, 15:35
Last week (June 20, 2011) also the Financial Times has published a Master in Finance Ranking. Actually they published two: The first one includes 30 programs that do not require prof exp:

(Pre-Experience Ranking)
HEC Paris
IE Business School
Essec Business School
University of Oxford: Saïd
Warwick Business School
Grenoble Graduate School of Business
ESCP Europe
Imperial College Business School
Skema
EM Lyon Business School
City University: Cass
Universität St.Gallen
HEC Lausanne
Brandeis University
Stockholm School of Economics
Rotterdam School of Management, Erasmus University
Eada
Cranfield School of Management
Washington University: Olin
Illinois Institute of Technology: Stuart
Henley Business School
Kozminski University
University of Bath School of Management
University of Strathclyde Business School
University of Edinburgh Business School
Tulane University: Freeman
Lancaster University Management School
Durham Business School
Faculdade de Economia of the Universidade Nova de Lisboa
University Co[/list]llege Dublin: Smurfit

The second one includes only 3 programs that require prof exp (Post-Experience Ranking):
London Business School
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
University of Melbourne
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink] New post   03 Aug 2011, 00:17
Hey bro :o , I got Qs to ask:

I'm graduating from LSE Accounting & Finance 2011, hasn't got the final result yet, but I guess First Class Honors won't be mine. I'm planning to take MSc Finance in either Warwick, Imperial College, Durham, UIUC, or Olin. It may take place 2 or 3 years more after I got working experiences.

My question is: how big is my chance to be accepted by those schools given my result which is not too fantastic but not too bad?

Then, which one is the most suitable for me in ur opinion?

Thank u :)
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Re: First Ever MSF Rankings [#permalink]
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