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please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch

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please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 27 Mar 2011, 04:36
hi, I am from eastern europe
I graduated from UPenn engineering with 3.60 and have a 730 gmat
average ECs both at and after college
currently wiorking in IB in my home country..
in June I will have exactly two years of full time experience and if I got accepted for the fall 2012 term, I will have a little more than 3 years of WE at matriculation.

this year I applied to 7 schools all in R2 and columbia at Jan 15th
- columbia, harvard, stanford ding w/o int
- chicago, nyu, yale , wharton ding w / int

anyways I think one of the reasons I got dings was my lack of WE and I started working on the apps very late so was not exactly happy with my essays
After MBA I plan on working in PE / or IB
so this year I will start very early preparing. and probably planing on using an addmisions consultant at least for several of the schools i plan to apply. I plan on applyng to these schools>

Columbia , Early decision probably will send the app in June and will have the result before R1 of other schools
R1: Harvard (reapp), Wharton (reapp), MIT, Tuck, Kellogg, Duke
R2: Stanford (reapp), Booth (reapp), Darden, Ross, Yale (reapp), NYU (reapp)

any comments on my school choices as well as any additional school you would recommend applyg?
should i apply to 6 schools in one round or should I lower the number schools?

thanks a lot..
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 29 Mar 2011, 13:48
You have a strong profile. You just need to be patient. Reapply to those same 7 schools in 2 years and you'll probably get in to 3 or 4 of them. Keep in mind that the applicants to most of these schools have usually 5-6 years of work experience. That's pretty tough to compete against when you only have 2-3 years.
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 29 Mar 2011, 16:48
ua87 wrote:
hi, I am from eastern europe
I graduated from UPenn engineering with 3.60 and have a 730 gmat
average ECs both at and after college
currently wiorking in IB in my home country..
in June I will have exactly two years of full time experience and if I got accepted for the fall 2012 term, I will have a little more than 3 years of WE at matriculation.

this year I applied to 7 schools all in R2 and columbia at Jan 15th
- columbia, harvard, stanford ding w/o int
- chicago, nyu, yale , wharton ding w / int

anyways I think one of the reasons I got dings was my lack of WE and I started working on the apps very late so was not exactly happy with my essays
After MBA I plan on working in PE / or IB
so this year I will start very early preparing. and probably planing on using an addmisions consultant at least for several of the schools i plan to apply. I plan on applyng to these schools>

Columbia , Early decision probably will send the app in June and will have the result before R1 of other schools
R1: Harvard (reapp), Wharton (reapp), MIT, Tuck, Kellogg, Duke
R2: Stanford (reapp), Booth (reapp), Darden, Ross, Yale (reapp), NYU (reapp)

any comments on my school choices as well as any additional school you would recommend applyg?
should i apply to 6 schools in one round or should I lower the number schools?

thanks a lot..

there are couple of factors that hurt you no matter what you do:
1) GPA: the schools you are applying to like high GPA, [one thing I know is usually it is very difficult to get high GPA in some majors, yours might be one of those] nothing you can do about it other than write an addendum and explain what your rank was in the class or show an upward trend or something that would take some attention away from your GPA.

2)work experience: when the admission people read your resume all they can see and imagine is what work experience you had when you did the application, so more thank likely they dont take into account your third year unless you make it clear in your resume or an addendum. [ by the way the schools you are going for all love 4 to 5 years of WE]

3)unless you can show you have made a substantial improvement [in some respect], more than likely the schools who dinged you will ding you again... since more than likely they will ask you about last year and will take that into account. so show some huge improvement in some part of your application and make it clear to the admission committee.

4)if i was you i would apply to Penn as well, since Penn will love your hard science back ground and additionally love their own alums.

these are all i could have think off...

good luck buddy... wish you the best anyways....
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 29 Mar 2011, 21:44
thanks for the replies..

ashkanator, do you consider 3.60/4.00 low gpa:)?
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 29 Mar 2011, 23:39
It is not me who considers that, your gpa actually could be very good for most of the schools. However for the specific schools you are applying for the 3.6 is lower than their 75 percentile.... Additionaly I know that it could be difficult to get a supper high gpa in hard science majors like yours, so that's why I suggested to talk about your ranking in class or some other things which would make your gpa look better than what it is... I hope I didn't offend you in any way, since 3.6 for engeeniering from Penn is actually a very great accomplishment....

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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 29 Mar 2011, 23:48
Unfortunatly you will compete with people who got their under grad in art sciences and have really high gpa s like 3.8 to 4.0+ So you have to some how show your gpa is lower than them because of some legitimate reason. But it doesnt indicate that they are better students than you are...

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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 04:32
ashkanator wrote:
It is not me who considers that, your gpa actually could be very good for most of the schools. However for the specific schools you are applying for the 3.6 is lower than their 75 percentile....

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I would like to respectfully disagree with ashkanator on this point.
Here are the 2010 average GPA's at the schools you are applyed to:

HBS: 3.67
Stanford: 3.66
Wharton: 3.50
Columbia: 3.50
Chicago: 3.53
Yale: 3.50
NYU: 3.45

I have a hard time believing that your GPA kept you out. Again, I believe it was your very low amount of work experience that kept you out this time.
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 05:08
I also dont think my gpa nor my gmat was the problem..
as you say its most likely the lack of WE, and me rushing the essays to be able to meet to deadlines.


by the way thanks for all the effort getting the gpas..
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 05:15
Just to weigh in: I applied to six schools in Round 2 this year and it was way too much. A few applications suffered as a result. I would strongly suggest that you target no more than four schools for each round.
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 06:26
Last year, I applied to H, S, W, Columbia and was dinged w/out interview at all except wharton, and was dinged after interview at W. I have a 3.6 from HYP undergrad, a 780 GMAT and 4 years WE

The key thing to remember right now, because what happened to you blows, is that bschool admissions isn't like law school admissions where the academic/test score stats matter a lot - they care more about the story, what you will add to the community (in terms of diversity), and your leadership/teamwork.

This year I applied to K, Sloan, and got into both. I also reapplied to H and got an interview (ultimately WL). So I didn't knock them out of the park, but definitely a better outcome.

I think the differences between this year and last year (in my perceived order of priority) were:

1. Recommendations - Last year, I gave each recommender a packet/letter, but afterward I trusted them to submit on their own. This year, I made sure the first two schools I applied to were schools where I wasn't as likely to care about, and I edited their recommendations for subsequent schools to cut the stuff that adcoms wouldn't care about (like summarizing the content of each of our projects) and move the stuff that they would care about to the top (like anecdotes about my performance, etc)

2. My story was "better" - the first year I applied, my essays were like a powerpoint presentation - to the point and very dense and analytical. This year, they were much more personal (which adcoms like).

I also called all the consultants for ding reports last year (whatever advice they would give for free) and hired a consultant for Wharton this year, which I think was a complete waste of money. I would advise caution before spending money on one. Their livelihoods thrive off of desperation and rejection, which is what I was going through last year and I imagine you are going through now (esp after seeing dozens of other people with different backgrounds get in over you).

Last edited by jumbalaya112 on 31 Mar 2011, 21:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 11:21
ashkanator wrote:
ua87 wrote:
hi, I am from eastern europe
I graduated from UPenn engineering with 3.60 and have a 730 gmat
average ECs both at and after college
currently wiorking in IB in my home country..
in June I will have exactly two years of full time experience and if I got accepted for the fall 2012 term, I will have a little more than 3 years of WE at matriculation.

this year I applied to 7 schools all in R2 and columbia at Jan 15th
- columbia, harvard, stanford ding w/o int
- chicago, nyu, yale , wharton ding w / int

anyways I think one of the reasons I got dings was my lack of WE and I started working on the apps very late so was not exactly happy with my essays
After MBA I plan on working in PE / or IB
so this year I will start very early preparing. and probably planing on using an addmisions consultant at least for several of the schools i plan to apply. I plan on applyng to these schools>

Columbia , Early decision probably will send the app in June and will have the result before R1 of other schools
R1: Harvard (reapp), Wharton (reapp), MIT, Tuck, Kellogg, Duke
R2: Stanford (reapp), Booth (reapp), Darden, Ross, Yale (reapp), NYU (reapp)

any comments on my school choices as well as any additional school you would recommend applyg?
should i apply to 6 schools in one round or should I lower the number schools?

thanks a lot..

there are couple of factors that hurt you no matter what you do:
1) GPA: the schools you are applying to like high GPA, [one thing I know is usually it is very difficult to get high GPA in some majors, yours might be one of those] nothing you can do about it other than write an addendum and explain what your rank was in the class or show an upward trend or something that would take some attention away from your GPA.

2)work experience: when the admission people read your resume all they can see and imagine is what work experience you had when you did the application, so more thank likely they dont take into account your third year unless you make it clear in your resume or an addendum. [ by the way the schools you are going for all love 4 to 5 years of WE]

3)unless you can show you have made a substantial improvement [in some respect], more than likely the schools who dinged you will ding you again... since more than likely they will ask you about last year and will take that into account. so show some huge improvement in some part of your application and make it clear to the admission committee.

4)if i was you i would apply to Penn as well, since Penn will love your hard science back ground and additionally love their own alums.

these are all i could have think off...

good luck buddy... wish you the best anyways....



I would take some of his advice with a grain of salt. A- your GPA is not low esp for science. B- This guy doesn't know that Wharton is Penn. C- I would say the obvious reason you got dinged is lack of work experience.

Don't bother hiring admissions consultants. Get involved in your community and reapply in two years.
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 21:03
Lisab0131 wrote:
ashkanator wrote:
ua87 wrote:
hi, I am from eastern europe
I graduated from UPenn engineering with 3.60 and have a 730 gmat
average ECs both at and after college
currently wiorking in IB in my home country..
in June I will have exactly two years of full time experience and if I got accepted for the fall 2012 term, I will have a little more than 3 years of WE at matriculation.

this year I applied to 7 schools all in R2 and columbia at Jan 15th
- columbia, harvard, stanford ding w/o int
- chicago, nyu, yale , wharton ding w / int

anyways I think one of the reasons I got dings was my lack of WE and I started working on the apps very late so was not exactly happy with my essays
After MBA I plan on working in PE / or IB
so this year I will start very early preparing. and probably planing on using an addmisions consultant at least for several of the schools i plan to apply. I plan on applyng to these schools>

Columbia , Early decision probably will send the app in June and will have the result before R1 of other schools
R1: Harvard (reapp), Wharton (reapp), MIT, Tuck, Kellogg, Duke
R2: Stanford (reapp), Booth (reapp), Darden, Ross, Yale (reapp), NYU (reapp)

any comments on my school choices as well as any additional school you would recommend applyg?
should i apply to 6 schools in one round or should I lower the number schools?

thanks a lot..

there are couple of factors that hurt you no matter what you do:
1) GPA: the schools you are applying to like high GPA, [one thing I know is usually it is very difficult to get high GPA in some majors, yours might be one of those] nothing you can do about it other than write an addendum and explain what your rank was in the class or show an upward trend or something that would take some attention away from your GPA.

2)work experience: when the admission people read your resume all they can see and imagine is what work experience you had when you did the application, so more thank likely they dont take into account your third year unless you make it clear in your resume or an addendum. [ by the way the schools you are going for all love 4 to 5 years of WE]

3)unless you can show you have made a substantial improvement [in some respect], more than likely the schools who dinged you will ding you again... since more than likely they will ask you about last year and will take that into account. so show some huge improvement in some part of your application and make it clear to the admission committee.

4)if i was you i would apply to Penn as well, since Penn will love your hard science back ground and additionally love their own alums.

these are all i could have think off...

good luck buddy... wish you the best anyways....



I would take some of his advice with a grain of salt. A- your GPA is not low esp for science. B- This guy doesn't know that Wharton is Penn. C- I would say the obvious reason you got dinged is lack of work experience.

Don't bother hiring admissions consultants. Get involved in your community and reapply in two years.

to just let you know I actually got accepted to Penn law and the only reason I am here and will take the gmat is to do JD/MBA at Penn [so i actually know Wharton and Penn Mba are the same and just didn't notice that he already mentioned Wharton]. so when i saw he actually did his under grad at Penn, made a suggestion about Penn which makes sence.... and if you think what i mentioned in the post is far from how the admission committees, at the schools he applied to, review and render decision about files [especially scenario like his]; you could double check with couple of legitimate consultants and see how far off of the mark are my points...
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Re: please evaluate fall 2012 chances,got 7 dings this year,ouch [#permalink] New post 01 Apr 2011, 11:04
Expert's post
ua87 wrote:
hi, I am from eastern europe
I graduated from UPenn engineering with 3.60 and have a 730 gmat
average ECs both at and after college
currently wiorking in IB in my home country..
in June I will have exactly two years of full time experience and if I got accepted for the fall 2012 term, I will have a little more than 3 years of WE at matriculation.

this year I applied to 7 schools all in R2 and columbia at Jan 15th
- columbia, harvard, stanford ding w/o int
- chicago, nyu, yale , wharton ding w / int

anyways I think one of the reasons I got dings was my lack of WE and I started working on the apps very late so was not exactly happy with my essays
After MBA I plan on working in PE / or IB
so this year I will start very early preparing. and probably planing on using an addmisions consultant at least for several of the schools i plan to apply. I plan on applyng to these schools>

Columbia , Early decision probably will send the app in June and will have the result before R1 of other schools
R1: Harvard (reapp), Wharton (reapp), MIT, Tuck, Kellogg, Duke
R2: Stanford (reapp), Booth (reapp), Darden, Ross, Yale (reapp), NYU (reapp)

any comments on my school choices as well as any additional school you would recommend applyg?
should i apply to 6 schools in one round or should I lower the number schools?

thanks a lot..


That is a good list of schools.

I think you are starting off on the right foot for an MBA reapplicant.: You are assessing what went wrong and attempting to fix it.

I agree that lack of work experience was probably a factor. I also suspect, based both on your comments about rushing and the results, that you failed to present yourself well through your MBA essays.

I don't feel that applying to 6 schools is too much as long as you would be happy to attend any of the six. I do recommend not applying to more than four during a given round. You have enough time to apply to 4 R1 and then the remainder R2.

We have a lot of resources on reapplying to bschool and on writing the MBA essays. Most are free. You are welcome to explore them at the links below:
* MBA Application Essays: Writing and Editing Tips
* MBA Reapplication 101

If you are interesting in working with Accepted, please check out our services for MBA applicants.

Best,
Linda
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