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Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship)

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Tuck vs Darden ($$$ + chance at prestigious fellowship)

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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:29
clomps wrote:
I love Darden and with your full ride, I would have a really hard time saying no to that sort of money. However, in your situation, I would pick Tuck. Given your aspirations to work in Asia, Dartmouth is a MUCH bigger name there than UVA. I'm not saying that you couldn't get there by going to Darden. But I think Tuck will open more doors for you on that front. Yes, Tuck has a a slightly better reputation than Darden in the U.S., but in Asia, I think there is a much more substantial gap.

If money is not a significant issue, go with Tuck. If money is indeed an issue (which it probably would for most of us on this forum!), go with Darden.

Dartmouth is a much bigger brand name than UVa, really? Are you sure. I feel they are sadly both unknown in the APAC region. The only reason most people I have talked to knew about Tuck was because of the ivy-league thing, which seems less relevant here. In favor of your argument, however, LinkedIn did in fact consistently display slightly greater number of Tuck alums in finance related careers in Singapore and Hong Kong (flawed methodology notwithstanding). The difference was starker for London. But the numbers were so low for both schools that I was a little disappointed with both :P
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:34
hamm0 wrote:
joy4ol wrote:
Maybe its an omen or something, I read this in the morning (http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/131760/how-banking-can-ruin-your-body-and-mind/) and was immediately reminded why I had second thoughts about ibanking in the first place. Still can't get "moobs" out of my head. And lets not even go near ED.

So if you would like to indulge me again, any idea which of these schools would allow me to better explore a career in international/developmental finance? Read IFC, WB etc. Is distance to NY/Washington a factor here?


For non-traditional paths like that.. I think your best bet is talking to current students/alumni. I have to imagine, though, that both schools will do equally as well in that forum.

Indeed. I am definitely gonna talk to their "emerging market clubs" again (which from my pre-mba research I have found to be mostly dysfunctional at most lower ranked schools; Sloan with its SEID was an exception, and Wharton and Booth are of course at the top of the game with their specialized Lauder/IMBA programs)
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:39
joy4ol wrote:
clomps wrote:
I love Darden and with your full ride, I would have a really hard time saying no to that sort of money. However, in your situation, I would pick Tuck. Given your aspirations to work in Asia, Dartmouth is a MUCH bigger name there than UVA. I'm not saying that you couldn't get there by going to Darden. But I think Tuck will open more doors for you on that front. Yes, Tuck has a a slightly better reputation than Darden in the U.S., but in Asia, I think there is a much more substantial gap.

If money is not a significant issue, go with Tuck. If money is indeed an issue (which it probably would for most of us on this forum!), go with Darden.

Dartmouth is a much bigger brand name than UVa, really? Are you sure. I feel they are sadly both unknown in the APAC region. The only reason most people I have talked to knew about Tuck was because of the ivy-league thing, which seems less relevant here. In favor of your argument, however, LinkedIn did in fact consistently display slightly greater number of Tuck alums in finance related careers in Singapore and Hong Kong (flawed methodology notwithstanding). The difference was starker for London. But the numbers were so low for both schools that I was a little disappointed with both :P


Tuck's network is small due to its class size. No one will argue on that. But the network is extremely loyal and will go to bat for a fellow tuckie. For example, every Tuck student/alum I talked to said that when they would e-mail an alum, they would get a response 90% of the time and often, they would gladly meet up for a chat and forward your resume over to the right people. I don't think you can understate intensity when it comes to the value of an alumni network.

Tuck is actually quite strong in London and Tokyo because the school has gone out of its way to expand their reach in those cities. So if you go to Tuck, I think getting a bank job in london/tokyo is certainly feasible while with darden, it will be harder.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:39
Shawshank wrote:
Given your career goals, Tuck is definitely better. Darden is fine for regular bulge bracket banking, but it's weak in other areas of finance; its bread and butter has always been consulting. Although Tuck is also a general management focused school, it's remarkably strong in finance, and its network is amazing despite the small size. If you're VERY confident that those are your career goals, go to Tuck.

Also, Tuck has formal joint degree programs with harvard kennedy and johns hopkins sais. Given your goals, you should look into applying to those schools during your first year at Tuck.

I have never seriously considered the JD/MBA thing but let me explore this as well. Extra costs as well I imagine :\
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:40
joy4ol wrote:
hamm0 wrote:
joy4ol wrote:
Maybe its an omen or something, I read this in the morning (http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/131760/how-banking-can-ruin-your-body-and-mind/) and was immediately reminded why I had second thoughts about ibanking in the first place. Still can't get "moobs" out of my head. And lets not even go near ED.

So if you would like to indulge me again, any idea which of these schools would allow me to better explore a career in international/developmental finance? Read IFC, WB etc. Is distance to NY/Washington a factor here?


For non-traditional paths like that.. I think your best bet is talking to current students/alumni. I have to imagine, though, that both schools will do equally as well in that forum.

Indeed. I am definitely gonna talk to their "emerging market clubs" again (which from my pre-mba research I have found to be mostly dysfunctional at most lower ranked schools; Sloan with its SEID was an exception, and Wharton and Booth are of course at the top of the game with their specialized Lauder/IMBA programs)



Sloan is not exactly a "lower ranked" school.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:43
joy4ol wrote:
Shawshank wrote:
Given your career goals, Tuck is definitely better. Darden is fine for regular bulge bracket banking, but it's weak in other areas of finance; its bread and butter has always been consulting. Although Tuck is also a general management focused school, it's remarkably strong in finance, and its network is amazing despite the small size. If you're VERY confident that those are your career goals, go to Tuck.

Also, Tuck has formal joint degree programs with harvard kennedy and johns hopkins sais. Given your goals, you should look into applying to those schools during your first year at Tuck.

I have never seriously considered the JD/MBA thing but let me explore this as well. Extra costs as well I imagine :\



Harvard kennedy and johns hopkins are policy programs, NOT law schools. You would get a master's, NOT a JD.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:43
Shawshank wrote:

Sloan is not exactly a "lower ranked" school.

Of course. I added that line about Sloan as an afterthought. Didnt realize it was implying that Slaon was lower-ranked. haha!
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:45
Shawshank wrote:
joy4ol wrote:
Shawshank wrote:
Given your career goals, Tuck is definitely better. Darden is fine for regular bulge bracket banking, but it's weak in other areas of finance; its bread and butter has always been consulting. Although Tuck is also a general management focused school, it's remarkably strong in finance, and its network is amazing despite the small size. If you're VERY confident that those are your career goals, go to Tuck.

Also, Tuck has formal joint degree programs with harvard kennedy and johns hopkins sais. Given your goals, you should look into applying to those schools during your first year at Tuck.

I have never seriously considered the JD/MBA thing but let me explore this as well. Extra costs as well I imagine :\



Harvard kennedy and johns hopkins are policy programs, NOT law schools. You would get a master's, NOT a JD.

Sorry, I meant Joint degree (JD) as in MBA+MA. Does JD have different connotation as well in law?
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:49
Shawshank wrote:
joy4ol wrote:
clomps wrote:
I love Darden and with your full ride, I would have a really hard time saying no to that sort of money. However, in your situation, I would pick Tuck. Given your aspirations to work in Asia, Dartmouth is a MUCH bigger name there than UVA. I'm not saying that you couldn't get there by going to Darden. But I think Tuck will open more doors for you on that front. Yes, Tuck has a a slightly better reputation than Darden in the U.S., but in Asia, I think there is a much more substantial gap.

If money is not a significant issue, go with Tuck. If money is indeed an issue (which it probably would for most of us on this forum!), go with Darden.

Dartmouth is a much bigger brand name than UVa, really? Are you sure. I feel they are sadly both unknown in the APAC region. The only reason most people I have talked to knew about Tuck was because of the ivy-league thing, which seems less relevant here. In favor of your argument, however, LinkedIn did in fact consistently display slightly greater number of Tuck alums in finance related careers in Singapore and Hong Kong (flawed methodology notwithstanding). The difference was starker for London. But the numbers were so low for both schools that I was a little disappointed with both :P


Tuck's network is small due to its class size. No one will argue on that. But the network is extremely loyal and will go to bat for a fellow tuckie. For example, every Tuck student/alum I talked to said that when they would e-mail an alum, they would get a response 90% of the time and often, they would gladly meet up for a chat and forward your resume over to the right people. I don't think you can understate intensity when it comes to the value of an alumni network.

Tuck is actually quite strong in London and Tokyo because the school has gone out of its way to expand their reach in those cities. So if you go to Tuck, I think getting a bank job in london/tokyo is certainly feasible while with darden, it will be harder.

All good points which I will take into consideration!
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:50
joy4ol wrote:
Sorry, I meant Joint degree (JD) as in MBA+MA. Does JD have different connotation as well in law?


Juris Doctor. Just as MDs are doctors, JDs are lawyers, and MBAs are crazies.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 17:53
hamm0 wrote:
joy4ol wrote:
Sorry, I meant Joint degree (JD) as in MBA+MA. Does JD have different connotation as well in law?


Juris Doctor. Just as MDs are doctors, JDs are lawyers, and MBAs are crazies.

LOL :D

Interesting. India does not have this designation I am quite sure. Crazies - yes I presume!
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 21:10
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If you're really interested in WB or IFC long term, I would definitely look into dual degree programs with either an MPP (Harvard Kennedy) or Int'l Relations degree (seems like there are all kinds of different acronyms for them...MALD, MA, MIA, MSFS). Take a look at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Study (SAIS) career stats, for example. The school is actually in DC, not in B-more, and a relatively significant percentage go right away to the WB (though not as many IFC...lot of people who goto programs like this have backgrounds like mine, i.e. NGO work). Other schools to consider are Tufts Fletcher, Georgetown School of Foreign Service, and Columbia's School of International and Political Affairs (SIPA). Nearly all of them offer dual degrees with top MBA programs, including Tuck with SAIS, Harvard Kennedy, and Fletcher though sadly Darden only allows you to take dual degrees via UVa constituents...and while I know the other schools I mentioned are of top quality I honestly know nothing about UVa's MPP or MA in IR. They could be great...I've just never heard of them and I'm in a field where these degrees are common.

That said, another thing to think about is how useful these dual degrees really are versus simply the MBA from a ROI perspective (I know....). Talking to people I know who got a dual Columbia MBA/MIA, most said the MIA was largely superflous and didn't really enhance things as much as they had hoped; this was obviously exacerbated by the cost of an extra year of living in NYC without a paycheck and all those other aspects of things that deserve being mentioned.

Also, in the states JD is used almost exclusively in reference to a law school- American law schools offer the JD (Juris Doctorate) to American grads, in addition to LLMs for foreign students. A dual degree in the aforementioned policy/IR fields would be referenced as MBA/MA, or MBA/MPP.

I'd love to help you further than that...but sadly since my area is LatAm and not APAC I can't vouch for the alum networks/career prospects of either school in, say, Tokyo or HK. I however have applied to both programs (and been admitted to Darden) with the intention of going into consulting and then maybe back to IR type work (which the IFC and WB are generally branded under) after some time. I am applying to Booth's IMBA and Wharton/Lauder Spanish track, but find these to be very different from say a Tuck/Sais MBA/MA as they are: A- two years at the same school, not three at two different schools and B- in many ways a good way to focus your network on your area of region within a preset MBA framework.

Sorry for the long post...just passionate about Int'l Relations and how an MBA can help people along in that field. Congrats on the admits, $$$, and consideration for a Jefferson...my UVa undergrad friends STILL talk about people they know who got that as though they were gods on campus.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 22:31
Just chiming in. Don't complicate your decision making process. I think you're already sold on Tuck, so its more important that you visit Darden and see how you fit in there, fellowship or no fellowship.
I believe both Darden and Tuck are relatively unknown in Asia. Yes the Tuck alums are fantastic and Tuck is keen to expand its international clout but Darden is no less (based on my own research). So gather the info you need on the Darden network and the support they can offer you.

Personally, I love Tuck but I'd think hard about an equally great school that has shown so much interest in me.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 00:28
Prudence wrote:
Just chiming in. Don't complicate your decision making process. I think you're already sold on Tuck, so its more important that you visit Darden and see how you fit in there, fellowship or no fellowship.
I believe both Darden and Tuck are relatively unknown in Asia. Yes the Tuck alums are fantastic and Tuck is keen to expand its international clout but Darden is no less (based on my own research). So gather the info you need on the Darden network and the support they can offer you.

Personally, I love Tuck but I'd think hard about an equally great school that has shown so much interest in me.



In finance, tuck and darden are not equals. Even in MBB consulting tuck does better on a per capita basis. Darden is great, and it's a lot of fun, but i think people are too easily conflating tuck with darden. Yes, tuck is not hbs or wharton and never will be, but given the OP's career goals, i think tuck has a distinct advantage.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 14:48
What if the alternative to Darden was Wharton instead of Tuck? Just out of interest, how far up the list does everyone think you need to go to make it almost a "no-brainer"?
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 15:13
dan62287 wrote:
What if the alternative to Darden was Wharton instead of Tuck? Just out of interest, how far up the list does everyone think you need to go to make it almost a "no-brainer"?



Wharton/booth are complete no-brainers given the op's career goals (or most career goals in my opinion). Heck, i would turn down darden even if they offered me full tuition, room and board, and spending cash, for wharton/booth full-sticker.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 15:30
@LatAmMan that's an awfully helpful post there. Thnaks...

@LatAmMan, @Shawshank I understand I can apply to these joint degree program while still in year 1. What is the selectivity level of these MA/MPA type of courses at say Kennedy School or SAIS? Can a person with no related experience (as in my case) get into these programs based on pure interest?

On a separate note, was a little bummed to see that GS, JPM, Barclays, CS, Amex, BOA, hadn't hired a single international candidate from Darden last year (though DB, Citi, Fidelity, Jefferies and Nomura did). Even though I don't see myself going into ibanking right now, this data point is certainly not reassuring. Is it a matter of self-selection or am I missing something very basic here? Can somebody in the know chime in. Btw, Tuck doesn't break this information for internationals so no idea what's up with internationals there. I will also drop in a mail with the career services of both schools.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 16:53
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Shawshank wrote:
dan62287 wrote:
What if the alternative to Darden was Wharton instead of Tuck? Just out of interest, how far up the list does everyone think you need to go to make it almost a "no-brainer"?



Wharton/booth are complete no-brainers given the op's career goals (or most career goals in my opinion). Heck, i would turn down darden even if they offered me full tuition, room and board, and spending cash, for wharton/booth full-sticker.

That's rather harsh Shawshank, even though there's a lot of truth in there. And in any case I gotta choose from what I have in hand right now. (Unless something extraordinary happens at Kellogg in R2).

@Dan There's never a good answer to these questions. I tend to think of this in terms of value. A lot of it is perception. Look at that guy on qz.com (rightly pilloried on the other thread) who doesn't think getting an mba beyond the top-5 has any value at all. Do I agree with him? Of course not. But I cannot determine the value of an mba for him. So a lot of subjectivity comes into answering your question. Regardless, I am finding it extremely useful to see what other people's considerations are while making the decision. I don't find any opinion more legit than the other. In an ideal world I would have known where the opinionator (sorry nyt) is coming from so that I could understand their underlying reasoning better. Ultimately, for me its just a quest to estimate the value of both MBAs to me and find out if one a has greater marginal value (over the long run) than the price incremental. Sorry to go all philosophical on you :P But I won't chicken out and will still answer your question. I believe this would a close call for all schools from Columbia to Haas to Tuck.

I am not thinking about this anymore till the Fellowship weekend now. I will give it my best shot and see from there. Meanwhile, I will continue to talk to alums from both schools to build a complete picture of what I will get into and what I will leave behind on the table.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 19:47
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joy4ol wrote:
@LatAmMan that's an awfully helpful post there. Thnaks...

@LatAmMan, @Shawshank I understand I can apply to these joint degree program while still in year 1. What is the selectivity level of these MA/MPA type of courses at say Kennedy School or SAIS? Can a person with no related experience (as in my case) get into these programs based on pure interest?

On a separate note, was a little bummed to see that GS, JPM, Barclays, CS, Amex, BOA, hadn't hired a single international candidate from Darden last year (though DB, Citi, Fidelity, Jefferies and Nomura did). Even though I don't see myself going into ibanking right now, this data point is certainly not reassuring. Is it a matter of self-selection or am I missing something very basic here? Can somebody in the know chime in. Btw, Tuck doesn't break this information for internationals so no idea what's up with internationals there. I will also drop in a mail with the career services of both schools.



Yes, you don't need to have public sector experience to apply to policy programs. Actually you would stand out given your private sector work. Apply to kennedy and sais since tuck has formal joint degrees with both programs. Avoid columbia sipa; it has a very weak career services, weak student body and is just a cash cow for columbia university.

As I said before, darden makes little sense for your career goals. I'm NOT bashing darden by any means; it's a great general management program and for vast majority of people, darden will get them to where they need to be. In your case however, you should go to tuck. Or if you are willing to wait, strengthen your resume and re-apply to booth/sloan/wharton next year. But i'm guessing that you want to go this year.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 19:48
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joy4ol wrote:
Shawshank wrote:
dan62287 wrote:
What if the alternative to Darden was Wharton instead of Tuck? Just out of interest, how far up the list does everyone think you need to go to make it almost a "no-brainer"?



Wharton/booth are complete no-brainers given the op's career goals (or most career goals in my opinion). Heck, i would turn down darden even if they offered me full tuition, room and board, and spending cash, for wharton/booth full-sticker.

That's rather harsh Shawshank, even though there's a lot of truth in there. And in any case I gotta choose from what I have in hand right now. (Unless something extraordinary happens at Kellogg in R2).

@Dan There's never a good answer to these questions. I tend to think of this in terms of value. A lot of it is perception. Look at that guy on qz.com (rightly pilloried on the other thread) who doesn't think getting an mba beyond the top-5 has any value at all. Do I agree with him? Of course not. But I cannot determine the value of an mba for him. So a lot of subjectivity comes into answering your question. Regardless, I am finding it extremely useful to see what other people's considerations are while making the decision. I don't find any opinion more legit than the other. In an ideal world I would have known where the opinionator (sorry nyt) is coming from so that I could understand their underlying reasoning better. Ultimately, for me its just a quest to estimate the value of both MBAs to me and find out if one a has greater marginal value (over the long run) than the price incremental. Sorry to go all philosophical on you :P But I won't chicken out and will still answer your question. I believe this would a close call for all schools from Columbia to Haas to Tuck.

I am not thinking about this anymore till the Fellowship weekend now. I will give it my best shot and see from there. Meanwhile, I will continue to talk to alums from both schools to build a complete picture of what I will get into and what I will leave behind on the table.



Just being honest. I'm a firm believer that you should go to the best b-school you get into, and especially given my career goals, darden just doesn't make sense, so yes, i would rather do wharton/booth full-sticker than darden jefferson fellowship. Of course, for others with different goals, they would pick differently.
Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship)   [#permalink] 17 Jan 2013, 19:48
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