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13 Jan 2013, 17:16
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First the complete application season status:
Wharton, Booth (ding w/ interview), Sloan (ding w/o interview)
Darden (Admit w/$$+ chance to interview for Jefferson fellowship which would also cover living expenses +3,000/yr stipend) LBS, Haas (WLed) Kellogg (Applied R2, no result out yet, of course) I will admit Tuck was one of my first loves and till a few days back (before the Darden scholarship info) I didn't even consider not going to Tuck. But now I feel I am in a massive dilemma regarding the situation - Darden is really keen on having me and 110k+ over two years is nothing to sneeze at while Tuck refused my request for any$$.

My background is: Indian/M/CFA/Engineer with 5+ years in third-party research services (mainly fixed income). I am a bit uncertain about the direction of my career. Off the bat, I would try to get an summer internship with GS/JPM/UBS etc. and try to get a full-time offer (FTO). I plan to meet the full cost of education through loans and a FTO would be really important to get over the sinking-in-debt feeling. Assuming the said FTO materializes, I would like to explore opportunities beyond ibanking in my second year such as with IFC, WB or just plain ol' corp. finance. Investment banking is a close plan B if these options do not play out well. I would ideally like to get back to India/HK/Singapore in 7-10 years post-MBA.

Making lifelong friends and quality of life are very important considerations while at both during MBA and beyond that. Much more important than slight differences in salary. That being said, I am sensitive to career opportunities (does it open doors?) and quality of network (will people bat for me if I want to move into PE in Asia 3-4 years down the line?).

So here is how my analysis breaks down to:

Tuck
+ Ivy league, top-10, bigger brand (just my perception?)
+ Highly regarded alum network
+ Relatively strong connections to PE (and many students with prior IB/PE exp; I know I wouldn't get in but the network is important I suppose given my ambivalent career goals)
- No $; a longer debt repayment period - Very cold winters (but then I dont mind the idea of skiing ) Darden + Top-15 (though not THAT below Tuck in US News rankings) + Full tuition + chance at Jefferson Fellowship (Full cost of attendance + up to$3000/yr stipend) (My client, who is in sell-side research, says if you are getting full ride and fellowship, the school will cater special attention to see you get placed and the fellowship will help me distinguish my resume better, any idea on the validity of that opinion?)
- Top-15 is lower than top-10
- I somehow like the sound of Boston/NY better than GA (note that I have never been to the states)

#Not sure about either school's standing with IFC et al.

Would I be really foolish to give up on greater long-term benefits with Tuck for short-term benefits? Or is Darden here a "no-brainer" (as my client says)?

Last edited by joy4ol on 13 Jan 2013, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 19 Jan 2013, 16:55 6 This post received KUDOS cheetarah1980 wrote: In fact at Booth it's common knowledge that you pretty much have to take dump on an MD's desk not to get a banking offer. Challenge accepted. _________________ Intern Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 24 WE: Management Consulting (Consulting) Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 12 [5] , given: 0 Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 18 Jan 2013, 13:08 5 This post received KUDOS Go to Tuck. Even though Darden places at BBs, it's still not a core finance school and the competition will be tougher (less spots for each bank, more students). Also as an international student, you will get beat out more by US based students who will do a better job networking for the few spots. In the same time, overall quality of Tuck students will be higher than Darden's, making it a more competitive process from that perspective.$100K is like first year bonus at a BB (pre tax though). You will survive.

At Fuqua (similar to Darden) and landed a BB summer associate role. Saw these play out first hand.
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16 Jan 2013, 21:10
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If you're really interested in WB or IFC long term, I would definitely look into dual degree programs with either an MPP (Harvard Kennedy) or Int'l Relations degree (seems like there are all kinds of different acronyms for them...MALD, MA, MIA, MSFS). Take a look at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Study (SAIS) career stats, for example. The school is actually in DC, not in B-more, and a relatively significant percentage go right away to the WB (though not as many IFC...lot of people who goto programs like this have backgrounds like mine, i.e. NGO work). Other schools to consider are Tufts Fletcher, Georgetown School of Foreign Service, and Columbia's School of International and Political Affairs (SIPA). Nearly all of them offer dual degrees with top MBA programs, including Tuck with SAIS, Harvard Kennedy, and Fletcher though sadly Darden only allows you to take dual degrees via UVa constituents...and while I know the other schools I mentioned are of top quality I honestly know nothing about UVa's MPP or MA in IR. They could be great...I've just never heard of them and I'm in a field where these degrees are common.

That said, another thing to think about is how useful these dual degrees really are versus simply the MBA from a ROI perspective (I know....). Talking to people I know who got a dual Columbia MBA/MIA, most said the MIA was largely superflous and didn't really enhance things as much as they had hoped; this was obviously exacerbated by the cost of an extra year of living in NYC without a paycheck and all those other aspects of things that deserve being mentioned.

Also, in the states JD is used almost exclusively in reference to a law school- American law schools offer the JD (Juris Doctorate) to American grads, in addition to LLMs for foreign students. A dual degree in the aforementioned policy/IR fields would be referenced as MBA/MA, or MBA/MPP.

I'd love to help you further than that...but sadly since my area is LatAm and not APAC I can't vouch for the alum networks/career prospects of either school in, say, Tokyo or HK. I however have applied to both programs (and been admitted to Darden) with the intention of going into consulting and then maybe back to IR type work (which the IFC and WB are generally branded under) after some time. I am applying to Booth's IMBA and Wharton/Lauder Spanish track, but find these to be very different from say a Tuck/Sais MBA/MA as they are: A- two years at the same school, not three at two different schools and B- in many ways a good way to focus your network on your area of region within a preset MBA framework.

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14 Jan 2013, 13:47
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Shawshank wrote:

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17 Jan 2013, 19:47
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joy4ol wrote:
@LatAmMan that's an awfully helpful post there. Thnaks...

@LatAmMan, @Shawshank I understand I can apply to these joint degree program while still in year 1. What is the selectivity level of these MA/MPA type of courses at say Kennedy School or SAIS? Can a person with no related experience (as in my case) get into these programs based on pure interest?

On a separate note, was a little bummed to see that GS, JPM, Barclays, CS, Amex, BOA, hadn't hired a single international candidate from Darden last year (though DB, Citi, Fidelity, Jefferies and Nomura did). Even though I don't see myself going into ibanking right now, this data point is certainly not reassuring. Is it a matter of self-selection or am I missing something very basic here? Can somebody in the know chime in. Btw, Tuck doesn't break this information for internationals so no idea what's up with internationals there. I will also drop in a mail with the career services of both schools.

Yes, you don't need to have public sector experience to apply to policy programs. Actually you would stand out given your private sector work. Apply to kennedy and sais since tuck has formal joint degrees with both programs. Avoid columbia sipa; it has a very weak career services, weak student body and is just a cash cow for columbia university.

As I said before, darden makes little sense for your career goals. I'm NOT bashing darden by any means; it's a great general management program and for vast majority of people, darden will get them to where they need to be. In your case however, you should go to tuck. Or if you are willing to wait, strengthen your resume and re-apply to booth/sloan/wharton next year. But i'm guessing that you want to go this year.
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13 Jan 2013, 17:43
joy4ol wrote:

First the complete application season status:
Wharton, Booth (ding w/ interview), Sloan (ding w/o interview)
Darden (Admit w/$$+ chance to interview for Jefferson fellowship which would also cover living expenses +3,000/yr stipend) LBS, Haas (WLed) Kellogg (Applied R2, no result out yet, of course) I will admit Tuck was one of my first loves and till a few days back (before the Darden scholarship info) I didn't even consider not going to Tuck. But now I feel I am in a massive dilemma regarding the situation - Darden is really keen on having me and 110k+ over two years is nothing to sneeze at while Tuck refused my request for any$$.

My background is: Indian/M/CFA/Engineer with 5+ years in third-party research services (mainly fixed income). I am a bit uncertain about the direction of my career. Off the bat, I would try to get an summer internship with GS/JPM/UBS etc. and try to get a full-time offer (FTO). I plan to meet the full cost of education through loans and a FTO would be really important to get over the sinking-in-debt feeling. Assuming the said FTO materializes, I would like to explore opportunities beyond ibanking in my second year such as with IFC, WB or just plain ol' corp. finance. Investment banking is a close plan B if these options do not play out well. I would ideally like to get back to India/HK/Singapore in 7-10 years post-MBA.

Making lifelong friends and quality of life are very important considerations while at both during MBA and beyond that. Much more important than slight differences in salary. That being said, I am sensitive to career opportunities (does it open doors?) and quality of network (will people bat for me if I want to move into PE in Asia 3-4 years down the line?).

So here is how my analysis breaks down to:

Tuck
+ Ivy league, top-10, bigger brand (just my perception?)
+ Highly regarded alum network
+ Relatively strong connections to PE (and many students with prior IB/PE exp; I know I wouldn't get in but the network is important I suppose given my ambivalent career goals)
- No $; a longer debt repayment period - Very cold winters (but then I dont mind the idea of skiing ) Darden + Top-15 (though not THAT below Tuck in US News rankings) + Full tuition + chance at Jefferson Fellowship (Full cost of attendance + up to$3000/yr stipend) (My client, who is in sell-side research, says if you are getting full ride and fellowship, the school will cater special attention to see you get placed and the fellowship will help me distinguish my resume better, any idea on the validity of that opinion?)
- Top-15 is lower than top-10
- I somehow like the sound of Boston/NY better than GA (note that I have never been to the states)

#Not sure about either school's standing with IFC et al.

Would I be really foolish to give up on greater long-term benefits with Tuck for short-term benefits? Or is Darden here it a "no-brainer" (as my client says)?

Awesome situation to be in.

The answer, to me, is easy. Go to Darden. If you're recruiting for IB down to corp fin., I would imagine your chances are about the same at each school; that is to say very good. The difference in terms of quality is negligible - Tuck does have great alumni, and probably a better PE connection, but if you have a Jefferson fellow scholarship on your resume and what sounds like an awesome past.. you'll be just as competitive.

I would only consider Tuck in this situation if a) Dawna Clarke is willing to deal and move some cash your way, or b) you're nutso over Tuck and hate the idea of spending 2 years in Virginia (not GA, lol) for free.

Disclaimer: I'm an avid supporter of Tuck 99% of the time - this isn't one of them.

Edit: Just read about the Jefferson Fellowship - sounds awesome. Not to mention getting a scholarship named after the man, ahem president, the built the university is amazing
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 13 Jan 2013, 18:05 Congrats on the two admits that you have! Have you visited either of the schools? Asking because I didn't see any mention of the campus or students in your comparisons. If you haven't, I'd recommend visiting if possible. It's probably difficult given the distance, but I feel like it's important given the investment you make in the MBA. I haven't been to Darden, but Tuck has a lovely campus and intimate feel to the school. Also, do you know when you'd hear back about possibly receiving the Jefferson Fellowship? FYI, don't know if that was a typo or not, but Darden is in VA and not GA lol. Intern Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Posts: 47 Concentration: Finance Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 12 [0], given: 11 Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 13 Jan 2013, 18:33 Exactly what sesamemochi said. Have you visited either campuses? Tuck is one of those schools where you HAVE to visit in order to know whether you'll enjoy spending your next two years there. Most people either love it or hate it downright, mostly because of its remote location. Personally I thought the campus was beautiful and people are really nice, I simply cannot fathom living in Hanover, NH for two years of my life. It really is pretty much in the middle of the woods. If you're big into skiing / outdoorsy stuff, it might be the place for you. But if you come from a big city, this might be a very jarring change (which could be for the better but you just need to know what you're getting yourself into). Haven't visited Darden but Charlottesville (in VA not GA as sesamemochi pointed out) is known to be a very very nice college town. In terms of immediate surroundings, Darden certainly trumps Charlottesville for the average person. Tuck may be closer to the major cities but not by much. It takes at least 4 hours to get to NYC. Location aside, I'll still take the full scholarship at a well-regarded T15 school over being 200K in debt at a slightly more prestigious school. But it's all a matter of personal preference and differing priorities in life. Either way, you're in a good spot so congrats! Current Student Status: Too close for missiles, switching to guns. Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Posts: 788 Location: United States Schools: Johnson (Cornell) - Class of 2015 WE: Military Officer (Military & Defense) Followers: 17 Kudos [?]: 316 [0], given: 175 Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 13 Jan 2013, 18:59 joy4ol wrote: Tuck + Ivy league, top-10, bigger brand (just my perception?) + Highly regarded alum network + Relatively strong connections to PE (and many students with prior IB/PE exp; I know I wouldn't get in but the network is important I suppose given my ambivalent career goals) - No ; a longer debt repayment period - Very cold winters (but then I dont mind the idea of skiing ) Darden + Top-15 (though not THAT below Tuck in US News rankings) + Full tuition + chance at Jefferson Fellowship (Full cost of attendance + up to 3000/yr stipend) (My client, who is in sell-side research, says if you are getting full ride and fellowship, the school will cater special attention to see you get placed and the fellowship will help me distinguish my resume better, any idea on the validity of that opinion?) - Top-15 is lower than top-10 - I somehow like the sound of Boston/NY better than GA (note that I have never been to the states) I've always said money should be a tie-breaker, not the primary factor. In this case it truly is a tie-breaker - we're not talking a full-ride at a top 30 school, Darden is no slouch. Also, both Tuck and Darden have similar small student bodies with a tight knit culture. If you were deciding between Columbia and Darden the culture argument would be a factor. I voted for Darden. For full disclosure, I'm a big fan of Tuck and if there wasn't money at either, I'd take Tuck in a heartbeat. But that full ride along with the added prestige of the Jefferson scholarship is hard to ignore. Best of luck with your decision. _________________ Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship)   [#permalink] 13 Jan 2013, 18:59

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