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Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by

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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 16 Dec 2012, 22:29
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jmuduke08 wrote:
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.

As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.

Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10

and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!


It's n=24k+10=12*2k+10, not n=24k+10=12*12k+10.
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2012, 00:40
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since n is greater than 30 we check for the number which gives a remainder of 4 after dividing by 6 and 3 after dividing by 5 , the number comes out to 58. So it will give a remainder of 28 after dividing by 30. Answer (E).
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 08 Jul 2013, 00:10
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 05 Feb 2014, 22:41
Listing the integers to obtain a common value takes time. Can this be done some other way ?
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 05 Feb 2014, 22:44
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 13 Apr 2014, 21:37
Maybe I did something wrong, or I just got lucky, so please inform me. I also had 28 as the solution, by just plugging in the values.

a. 3 / 6 = 0 r 6 INCORRECT
b. 12 / 6 = 2 r 0 INCORRECT
c. 18 / 6 = 3 r 0 INCORRECT
d. 22 / 6 = 3 r 4 & 22 / 5 = 4 r 2 INCORRECT
e. 28 / 6 = 4 r 4 & 28 / 5 = 4 r 3 CORRECT

Super-simple math, so there must be something wrong here, haha. :-D
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 13 Apr 2014, 23:08
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Saabs wrote:
Maybe I did something wrong, or I just got lucky, so please inform me. I also had 28 as the solution, by just plugging in the values.

a. 3 / 6 = 0 r 6 INCORRECT
b. 12 / 6 = 2 r 0 INCORRECT
c. 18 / 6 = 3 r 0 INCORRECT
d. 22 / 6 = 3 r 4 & 22 / 5 = 4 r 2 INCORRECT
e. 28 / 6 = 4 r 4 & 28 / 5 = 4 r 3 CORRECT

Super-simple math, so there must be something wrong here, haha. :-D


What you did is correct. The reason you did it will tell you whether you got lucky or used good reasoning.

The question tells you that "n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 3 after division by 5"

The options are not the values of n; they are the values of remainder that is leftover after you divide n by 30. You divided the options by 6 and 5 and got the remainder as 4 and 3 respectively. Was that a mistake you made? If yes, then you got lucky.

Though, if you had used logic and said, "Ok, so when n is divided by 30, groups of 30 are made. What is leftover is given in the options. 30 is completely divisible by 6 and by 5 hence the groups of 30 can be evenly divided into groups of 6 as well as groups of 5. So whatever is leftover after division by 30, we need to split that into further groups of 6 and 5. When we split it into groups of 6, we must have remainder as 4 since n leaves remainder 4. When we split it into groups of 5, we must have remainder as 3 since n leaves remainder 3. And, if that is the reason you divided the options by 6 and 5, checked their remainders and got your answer, then well done! You got the logic!"
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Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink] New post 17 Apr 2014, 11:12
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.

Suppose we are told that:
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: n=6p+4. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: n=8q+2. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...

The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of n are the values which are common in both patterns. For example n can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer q.

So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of n.

How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type n=kx+r? Where x is divisor and r is a remainder.

Divisor x would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence x=24.

Remainder r would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence r=10.

Therefore general formula based on both statements is n=24k+10. Thus according to this general formula valid values of n are: 10, 34, 58, ...

Now, n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).

Hope it helps.



Bunuel – very good explanation.

First case - i). given statement in a question is - Remainder is 7 when positive integer n is divided by 18. And ii). if we are asked to find out the remainder when n is divided by 6,

Then since 18 is completely divisible by 6 or 6 is a factor of 18, we can find out the solution easily by above given statement. As, n = 18 q + 7; 18 is completely divisible by 6, thus no remainder exists when 18q/6 and when 7 is divided by 6, it would yield 1 as the remainder.

Second case i). given statement in a question is - Remainder is 7 when positive integer n is divided by 18. And ii). if we are asked to find out the remainder when n is divided by 8,

Then since 18 is not divisible by 8 or 8 is not a factor of 18, we cannot find out the solution by above given statement.

Third case i). given statement in a question is - Remainder is 7 when positive integer n is divided by 6. And ii). if we are asked to find out the remainder when n is divided by 12,

Then since 6 is not divisible by 12, however it true the other way round. We cannot find out the solution by above given statement.

Fourth case, which you have explained – “Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?”

We have two given statements – since one statement will not yield us the answer as explained in my earlier three cases. But, since we have two given statements which derive – n = 6Q1 + 4 & n = 8Q2 + 2. Q1, Q2 are quotients respectively.
And if we look at 6Q1 and 8 Q2, the LCM yields 24. Since we are asked the remainder when division is done by 12 and since 12 is completely divisible by 24. Thus, we can come up with a solution. Otherwise we cannot.

I hope I was able to explain what I wanted to and the above conclusion described in the 4 cases is correct.
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Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink] New post 18 May 2014, 11:55
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.

Suppose we are told that:
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: n=6p+4. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: n=8q+2. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...

The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of n are the values which are common in both patterns. For example n can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer q.

So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of n.

How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type n=kx+r? Where x is divisor and r is a remainder.

Divisor x would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence x=24.

Remainder r would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence r=10.

Therefore general formula based on both statements is n=24k+10. Thus according to this general formula valid values of n are: 10, 34, 58, ...

Now, n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.


Hi Bunuel,

All of this makes sense but I would like to challenge the last statement highlighted above.

In this case, we can obviously write n=12(2k)+10 as you highlighted in the later posts. If for some reason, let's say it asked for a number that wasn't divisible by 24, wouldn't that make the equation n=24k+10 invalid? Meaning, it asked what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 11?

Additionally, what if it asked "what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 48. Could we still apply the same logic and say 10?

Thanks!
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Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink] New post 19 May 2014, 07:00
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russ9 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.

Suppose we are told that:
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: n=6p+4. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: n=8q+2. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...

The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of n are the values which are common in both patterns. For example n can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer q.

So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of n.

How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type n=kx+r? Where x is divisor and r is a remainder.

Divisor x would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence x=24.

Remainder r would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence r=10.

Therefore general formula based on both statements is n=24k+10. Thus according to this general formula valid values of n are: 10, 34, 58, ...

Now, n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.


Hi Bunuel,

All of this makes sense but I would like to challenge the last statement highlighted above.

In this case, we can obviously write n=12(2k)+10 as you highlighted in the later posts. If for some reason, let's say it asked for a number that wasn't divisible by 24, wouldn't that make the equation n=24k+10 invalid? Meaning, it asked what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 11?

Additionally, what if it asked "what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 48. Could we still apply the same logic and say 10?

Thanks!


If the question were what is the remainder when n is divided by 11, then the answer would be "cannot be determined". The same if the question asked about the remainder when n is divided by 48. See, according to this general formula valid values of n are: 10, 34, 58, ... These values give different remainders upon division by 11, or 48.
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Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink] New post 19 May 2014, 16:55
Bunuel wrote:
russ9 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.

Suppose we are told that:
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: n=6p+4. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...

The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: n=8q+2. Thus according to this particular statement n could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...

The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of n are the values which are common in both patterns. For example n can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer q.

So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of n.

How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type n=kx+r? Where x is divisor and r is a remainder.

Divisor x would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence x=24.

Remainder r would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence r=10.

Therefore general formula based on both statements is n=24k+10. Thus according to this general formula valid values of n are: 10, 34, 58, ...

Now, n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.


Hi Bunuel,

All of this makes sense but I would like to challenge the last statement highlighted above.

In this case, we can obviously write n=12(2k)+10 as you highlighted in the later posts. If for some reason, let's say it asked for a number that wasn't divisible by 24, wouldn't that make the equation n=24k+10 invalid? Meaning, it asked what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 11?

Additionally, what if it asked "what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 48. Could we still apply the same logic and say 10?

Thanks!


If the question were what is the remainder when n is divided by 11, then the answer would be "cannot be determined". The same if the question asked about the remainder when n is divided by 48. See, according to this general formula valid values of n are: 10, 34, 58, ... These values give different remainders upon division by 11, or 48.


Makes complete sense. Thanks.
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 31 May 2014, 13:12
Hi,
Probably a silly question....
But can some one explain why Remainder r would be the first common integer in the two patterns
n=6p+4
n=5q+3

Many Thanks
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 01 Jun 2014, 19:56
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Hi,
Probably a silly question....
But can some one explain why Remainder r would be the first common integer in the two patterns
n=6p+4
n=5q+3

Many Thanks


N is of the form 6p+4 which means it is one of 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, ...
N is also of the form 5q+3 which means it must also be one of 3, 8, 13, 18, 23, 28, ...

Since N must be a value in both the lists, N can take the values common to both. The first such value is 28.
So N can be 28.

Now what other values can N take? 28 is a number that will leave a remainder of 4 when divided by 6 and a remainder of 3 when divided by 5. The next such number will be (LCM of 6 and 5) + 28. Why? because whatever you add to 28, that should be divisible by 6 as well as 5. Then whatever you add will have no relevance to the remainder and the remainders will remain the same.
That is why some other values of N will be 30+28, 60+28 ...etc.

After you divide any of these numbers by 30, the remainder will be 28.

For more on divisibility and remainders, check:
http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2011/04 ... unraveled/
http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2011/04 ... y-applied/
http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2011/05 ... emainders/
http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2011/05 ... s-part-ii/

Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 3 after division by 5. If n is greater than 30, what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 30?
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 15 Aug 2014, 21:17
jmuduke08 wrote:
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.

As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.

Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10

and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!




Is this a sub-600 level question? :o
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink] New post 18 Aug 2014, 01:33
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alphonsa wrote:
jmuduke08 wrote:
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.

As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.

Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10

and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!




Is this a sub-600 level question? :o


No. It is 650-700 level question. It seems quite do-able only because we have done the concept of remainders in great detail. For a newbie, this problem can be quite challenging.
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Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by   [#permalink] 18 Aug 2014, 01:33
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