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Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
15 Sep 2012, 20:32
Bunuel wrote:
In some cases we can use some other approaches, though I think simple listing is the easiest way.
Thanks for your response. Yes that easy.
Sorry this might be a silly questions.... I have a basic doubt here
Lets assume p = 9 n = 11 and what is the reminder when pn / 15?
so 99 / 15 give me a reminder of 9 but if i split the denominator for ex 9 * 11 / 3 * 5 = 9/3 * 11 / 5 => I can always mutiply reminders as long as i can correct the excess so here 9/3 reminder 0 11/5 reminder 1 = 0 * 1 = 0 = reminder.
So i should never split the denominator or the numertator when calculating for root or can I? something is wrong here! pls help.
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
03 Nov 2012, 00:46
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.
Sorry , i didn't understand the last statement written marked in red... instead of 12 if we have other values like 14 or 20 then how remainder would vary.. just lil but curious to understand the gravity
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
03 Nov 2012, 00:50
Expert's post
breakit wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.
Sorry , i didn't understand the last statement written marked in red... instead of 12 if we have other values like 14 or 20 then how remainder would vary.. just lil but curious to understand the gravity
\(n=24k+10=12(2k)+10\) --> \(n\) can be: 10, 34, 58, ... \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.
As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6. _________________
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
03 Nov 2012, 13:14
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.
Hi Bunuel, I had a quick question with this explanation:
Do we have to find the LCM? I just multiplied 6 x 8 and got 48 => n = 48k + 10 which also leads to a remainder of 10. My question is is finding the LCM necessary?
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
16 Dec 2012, 13:22
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.
As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.
Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10
and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
16 Dec 2012, 22:29
Expert's post
jmuduke08 wrote:
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.
As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.
Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10
and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!
It's n=24k+10=12*2k+10, not n=24k+10=12*12k+10. _________________
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
18 Dec 2012, 00:40
Ans:
since n is greater than 30 we check for the number which gives a remainder of 4 after dividing by 6 and 3 after dividing by 5 , the number comes out to 58. So it will give a remainder of 28 after dividing by 30. Answer (E). _________________
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
17 Apr 2014, 11:12
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12).
Hope it helps.
Bunuel – very good explanation.
First case - i). given statement in a question is - Remainder is 7 when positive integer n is divided by 18. And ii). if we are asked to find out the remainder when n is divided by 6,
Then since 18 is completely divisible by 6 or 6 is a factor of 18, we can find out the solution easily by above given statement. As, n = 18 q + 7; 18 is completely divisible by 6, thus no remainder exists when 18q/6 and when 7 is divided by 6, it would yield 1 as the remainder.
Second case i). given statement in a question is - Remainder is 7 when positive integer n is divided by 18. And ii). if we are asked to find out the remainder when n is divided by 8,
Then since 18 is not divisible by 8 or 8 is not a factor of 18, we cannot find out the solution by above given statement.
Third case i). given statement in a question is - Remainder is 7 when positive integer n is divided by 6. And ii). if we are asked to find out the remainder when n is divided by 12,
Then since 6 is not divisible by 12, however it true the other way round. We cannot find out the solution by above given statement.
Fourth case, which you have explained – “Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?”
We have two given statements – since one statement will not yield us the answer as explained in my earlier three cases. But, since we have two given statements which derive – n = 6Q1 + 4 & n = 8Q2 + 2. Q1, Q2 are quotients respectively. And if we look at 6Q1 and 8 Q2, the LCM yields 24. Since we are asked the remainder when division is done by 12 and since 12 is completely divisible by 24. Thus, we can come up with a solution. Otherwise we cannot.
I hope I was able to explain what I wanted to and the above conclusion described in the 4 cases is correct. _________________
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
18 May 2014, 11:55
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12). Hope it helps.
Hi Bunuel,
All of this makes sense but I would like to challenge the last statement highlighted above.
In this case, we can obviously write n=12(2k)+10 as you highlighted in the later posts. If for some reason, let's say it asked for a number that wasn't divisible by 24, wouldn't that make the equation n=24k+10 invalid? Meaning, it asked what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 11?
Additionally, what if it asked "what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 48. Could we still apply the same logic and say 10?
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
19 May 2014, 07:00
Expert's post
russ9 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12). Hope it helps.
Hi Bunuel,
All of this makes sense but I would like to challenge the last statement highlighted above.
In this case, we can obviously write n=12(2k)+10 as you highlighted in the later posts. If for some reason, let's say it asked for a number that wasn't divisible by 24, wouldn't that make the equation n=24k+10 invalid? Meaning, it asked what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 11?
Additionally, what if it asked "what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 48. Could we still apply the same logic and say 10?
Thanks!
If the question were what is the remainder when n is divided by 11, then the answer would be "cannot be determined". The same if the question asked about the remainder when n is divided by 48. See, according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ... These values give different remainders upon division by 11, or 48. _________________
Re: Manhattan Remainder Problem [#permalink]
19 May 2014, 16:55
Bunuel wrote:
russ9 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
To elaborate more.
Suppose we are told that: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 2 after division by 8. What is the remainder that n leaves after division by 12?
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6" can be expressed as: \(n=6p+4\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, ...
The statement "positive integer n leaves a remainder of 2 after division by 8" can be expressed as: \(n=8q+2\). Thus according to this particular statement \(n\) could take the following values: 2, 10, 18, 26, 34, 42, 50, 58, 66, ...
The above two statements are both true, which means that the only valid values of \(n\) are the values which are common in both patterns. For example \(n\) can not be 16 (from first pattern) as the second formula does not give us 16 for any value of integer \(q\).
So we should derive general formula (based on both statements) that will give us only valid values of \(n\).
How can these two statement be expressed in one formula of a type \(n=kx+r\)? Where \(x\) is divisor and \(r\) is a remainder.
Divisor \(x\) would be the least common multiple of above two divisors 6 and 8, hence \(x=24\).
Remainder \(r\) would be the first common integer in above two patterns, hence \(r=10\).
Therefore general formula based on both statements is \(n=24k+10\). Thus according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ...
Now, \(n\) divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10 (as 24k is divisible by 12). Hope it helps.
Hi Bunuel,
All of this makes sense but I would like to challenge the last statement highlighted above.
In this case, we can obviously write n=12(2k)+10 as you highlighted in the later posts. If for some reason, let's say it asked for a number that wasn't divisible by 24, wouldn't that make the equation n=24k+10 invalid? Meaning, it asked what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 11?
Additionally, what if it asked "what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 48. Could we still apply the same logic and say 10?
Thanks!
If the question were what is the remainder when n is divided by 11, then the answer would be "cannot be determined". The same if the question asked about the remainder when n is divided by 48. See, according to this general formula valid values of \(n\) are: 10, 34, 58, ... These values give different remainders upon division by 11, or 48.
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
15 Aug 2014, 21:17
jmuduke08 wrote:
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.
As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.
Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10
and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!
Is this a sub-600 level question? _________________
If you found this post useful for your prep, click 'Kudos'
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
18 Aug 2014, 01:33
Expert's post
alphonsa wrote:
jmuduke08 wrote:
n=24k+10=12(12k)+10 --> n can be: 10, 34, 58, ... n divided by 12 will give us the reminder of 10.
As, you can see, n divided by 14 can give different remainders. If n=10, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 10 but if n=34, then n divided by 14 yields the remainder of 6.
Bunuel - Can you please explain this? how does 24k+10 = 12(12k)+10
and can you help me to visualize how you would divide 24k+10 by 12? thanks!
Is this a sub-600 level question?
No. It is 650-700 level question. It seems quite do-able only because we have done the concept of remainders in great detail. For a newbie, this problem can be quite challenging. _________________
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
31 Aug 2014, 23:28
Bunuel wrote:
bchekuri wrote:
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 3 after division by 5. If n is greater than 30, what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 30? (A) 3 (B) 12 (C) 18 (D) 22 (E) 28
How to approach this Problem?
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 --> \(n=6p+4\) --> 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, ... Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 3 after division by 5 --> \(n=5q+3\) --> 3, 8, 13, 18, 23, 28, ...
\(n=30k+28\) - we have 30 as lcm of 5 and 6 is 30 and we have 28 as the first common integer in the above patterns is 28.
Hence remainder when positive integer n is divided by 30 is 28.
Answer: E.
P.S. n>30 is a redundant information.
What will be the answer of they ask us what the remainder is if n is divided by something other than 30, lets say 11 or 12. any random number which is not a factor of 30.
Re: Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by [#permalink]
31 Aug 2014, 23:41
Expert's post
rohansangari wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
bchekuri wrote:
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 and a remainder of 3 after division by 5. If n is greater than 30, what is the remainder that n leaves after division by 30? (A) 3 (B) 12 (C) 18 (D) 22 (E) 28
How to approach this Problem?
Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 4 after division by 6 --> \(n=6p+4\) --> 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, ... Positive integer n leaves a remainder of 3 after division by 5 --> \(n=5q+3\) --> 3, 8, 13, 18, 23, 28, ...
\(n=30k+28\) - we have 30 as lcm of 5 and 6 is 30 and we have 28 as the first common integer in the above patterns is 28.
Hence remainder when positive integer n is divided by 30 is 28.
Answer: E.
P.S. n>30 is a redundant information.
What will be the answer of they ask us what the remainder is if n is divided by something other than 30, lets say 11 or 12. any random number which is not a factor of 30.
In this case we wouldn't be able to determine the remainder. For example, if we were asked to find the remainder of n divided by 11, then we would get different answers: if n = 28, then remainder would be 6 but if n = 58, then the remainder would be 3. _________________
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