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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
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@santivilla: Let us look at this

Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power only after a long struggle by the native people.

A. Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power

B. Before independence in 1947, Britain had ruled India as a colony and relinquished power

C. Before its independence in 1947, India was ruled by Britain as a colony and they relinquished power

D. Before independence in 1947, India had been ruled as a colony by Britain, which relinquished power

E. Before independence in 1947, India had been a colony of the British, who relinquished power

Here the timeline is clear with the use of the time marker ‘before’. Still the official answer is E, which uses the past perfect. As per your claim. the answer should be either A or C, both of which do not use the past perfect, but simple past.

To quote MGMAT’s spokesperson trying to justify the use of past perfect:


Quote:
Also, for that before/after rule. It's not saying that you cannot have past perfect - only that it's not required any more. Typically, if the meaning of the sentence is "this one thing happened RIGHT before this other thing - very close in time" then I don't generally use past perfect. If they are still widely separated, though, then I may use it.

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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
@daagh:
thanks for the explanation. Its all clear now.
cheers
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
The answer is A due to the following rule :-

With phrases like Since , in the last minutes , For centuries , In the last decade where all these are used as a time line we use
Present Prefect tense .

SO had ...

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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
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both a and b are correct.
if there is time word which show the sequence we can use either did or had done.

gmat never test us to choose between a and b
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
easily A .. only this choice has the past perfect.
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
I was under the assumption that if 'before' is used, 'had' is not necessary?
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
Past and Past perfect tense.
Only answer A complies.
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
Though Daagh has given an explanation for the use of past perfect over Simple past, I am still not clear about the rule to be followed. I choose B, because use of 'before' did not necessitate the use of past perfect. I had seen a similar question in the past where it was clearly mentioned that if the use of simple past over past perfect does not change the meaning, and if words like before , since etc (which indicate precedence) are used, then one should avoid past perfect.

Can someone help and provide a clarity?


Thanks :)
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
Expert, I am not sure if this is an official question.

A use past perfect tense and B use simple past tense. But the word "before" correctly points the time sequence.
Option A and B, both are same from the tense prospective. With the real GMAT test this conflict?

Also..

rohitkumar77 wrote:
The answer is A due to the following rule :-

With phrases like Since , in the last minutes , For centuries , In the last decade where all these are used as a time line we use
Present Prefect tense .

SO had ...

Source : Manhattan SC


Is this correct???
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
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RMD007 wrote:
Expert, I am not sure if this is an official question.

A use past perfect tense and B use simple past tense. But the word "before" correctly points the time sequence.
Option A and B, both are same from the tense prospective. With the real GMAT test this conflict?

Also..

rohitkumar77 wrote:
The answer is A due to the following rule :-

With phrases like Since , in the last minutes , For centuries , In the last decade where all these are used as a time line we use
Present Prefect tense .

SO had ...

Source : Manhattan SC


Is this correct???


In my opinion, option B is better because of the use of "before".

The first part is correct - "since" requires present perfect. However I do not see any connection of this concept to this question: there is no "since" and the tense is not present perfect.
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
GMATNinja

why is B wrong? why is there the need to use the past perfect tense? the word "before" signals that plotemaic happened before copernican. do we still need to use the past perfect redundantly?
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
shenwenlim wrote:
GMATNinja

why is B wrong? why is there the need to use the past perfect tense? the word "before" signals that plotemaic happened before copernican. do we still need to use the past perfect redundantly?

After reading the answers, my question exactly..

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
@santivilla: Let us look at this

Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power only after a long struggle by the native people.

A. Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power

B. Before independence in 1947, Britain had ruled India as a colony and relinquished power

C. Before its independence in 1947, India was ruled by Britain as a colony and they relinquished power

D. Before independence in 1947, India had been ruled as a colony by Britain, which relinquished power

E. Before independence in 1947, India had been a colony of the British, who relinquished power

Here the timeline is clear with the use of the time marker ‘before’. Still the official answer is E, which uses the past perfect. As per your claim. the answer should be either A or C, both of which do not use the past perfect, but simple past.

To quote MGMAT’s spokesperson trying to justify the use of past perfect:


Quote:
Also, for that before/after rule. It's not saying that you cannot have past perfect - only that it's not required any more. Typically, if the meaning of the sentence is "this one thing happened RIGHT before this other thing - very close in time" then I don't generally use past perfect. If they are still widely separated, though, then I may use it.

_________________
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Director of Online Community
ManhattanGMAT


So, What would you take now?


I think that the answer is E for other reasons, and not the past perfect verb tenses.
In A, the beginning modifier "Before its independence in 1947" wrongfully modifies Britain. It should be modifying India-> so that is incorrect.
In B, theres the same mistake as A.
In C, the pronoun "they" is incorrect. It does not not agree with the antecedent in number . India and Britain are both singular, thus the correct pronoun should be "it". And even if the answer choice used "it", the meaning would be distorted/ambiguous. So C is incorrect.
In D, "which" is the wrong relative pronoun to used. The preferred pronoun would be "who".
Option E corrects all these errors. So option is correct because it does not have the errors stated in the other option choices, NOT because it uses past perfect tense. As long as there are sequence markers and they are clear, past perfect tense is not required.
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For years, the Ptolemaic view of a geocentric universe [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
@santivilla: Let us look at this

Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power only after a long struggle by the native people.

A. Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power

B. Before independence in 1947, Britain had ruled India as a colony and relinquished power

C. Before its independence in 1947, India was ruled by Britain as a colony and they relinquished power

D. Before independence in 1947, India had been ruled as a colony by Britain, which relinquished power

E. Before independence in 1947, India had been a colony of the British, who relinquished power

Here the timeline is clear with the use of the time marker ‘before’. Still the official answer is E, which uses the past perfect. As per your claim. the answer should be either A or C, both of which do not use the past perfect, but simple past.

To quote MGMAT’s spokesperson trying to justify the use of past perfect:


Quote:
Also, for that before/after rule. It's not saying that you cannot have past perfect - only that it's not required any more. Typically, if the meaning of the sentence is "this one thing happened RIGHT before this other thing - very close in time" then I don't generally use past perfect. If they are still widely separated, though, then I may use it.

_________________
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director of Online Community
ManhattanGMAT


So, What would you take now?



I am sorry, but I will beg to differ here. In your example A and C are incorrect choices because of the pronoun ambiguity ("its" can refer to both India and well as Britain), however, w.r.t the question under consideration, both option A and option B are logically as well as grammatically correct.
Hence the only possible take for me would be to believe GMAT will never test a question like this. In GMAT, as far as I know, all choices except one has to be incorrect on solid reasons. If that is not the case, then may be its good to know GMAT prefers past perfect over simple past even if both options are grammatically correct.
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