While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators fro

While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses that grow in temperate climates, though, the thorns of desert roses also serve as reservoirs for water to forestall the ever-present threat of dehydration.

We can rule out the majority of the options basing out analysis on the comparison between thorns of roses that live in temperate climates and those of roses that live in the desert.


A- While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
Logically wrong: Unlike roses-the thorns.
B- All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
Logically wrong, unlike those that grow in... it's not the thorns that grow, but the roses.
C- The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
Hold
D- While all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
The comparison works but the usage of while is wrong, while indicates two parallel events.
E- The thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those
Same as B

Hi Zarrolou,

In 2). How do you know that "that" is referring to Roses not thorns. I mean thorns might wrong in winter season (I am no idea about seasonal variation of Roses and thorns). Is there any way to figure out what that is referring to on Exam.

In option C doesnt Those refer to Thorns of roses and not just Thorns?
sayantanc2k

By virtue of parallelism, "those" refers to just "thorns", not "thorns of roses".

I am not clear why you think that "those" could refer to "thorns of roses" rather than just "thorns" - could you elaborate?

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than it was in 1988.

a. 1.1 percent more than it was in

b. 1.1 percent more than

c. a 1.1 percent increase from the rate in

d. 1.1 percent up from what it was in

e. 1.1 percent the rate in

In the above question "it" refers to the entire noun phrase "foreclosure rate in 2007" because of which the sentence is wrong.
Going by that logic here those refers not just to thorns but to the entire noun phrase thorns of roses.
Hence my question.

The use of pronoun "that"/ "those" and the pronoun " it" are not same - "that"/ "those" can be used as a pronoun that creates a copy of the noun it refers to. The following sentence is correct:

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than that in 1988.

Here "that" refers to just "foreclosure rate" - it creates a new copy of the rate.

This copy-creating "that" pronoun must always have a modifier attached to it that elaborates how the copy is different from the original.

The original "foreclosure" is different from the copy "that" in that the original is in 2007 and the copy is in 1988.

Similarly the original "thorns" is different from that copy "those" in that the original is of desert roses, whereas the copy is of roses that grow in temperate climates.

By virtue of parallelism, "those" refers to just "thorns", not "thorns of roses".

I am not clear why you think that "those" could refer to "thorns of roses" rather than just "thorns" - could you elaborate?[/quote]


The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than it was in 1988.

a. 1.1 percent more than it was in

b. 1.1 percent more than

c. a 1.1 percent increase from the rate in

d. 1.1 percent up from what it was in

e. 1.1 percent the rate in

In the above question "it" refers to the entire noun phrase "foreclosure rate in 2007" because of which the sentence is wrong.
Going by that logic here those refers not just to thorns but to the entire noun phrase thorns of roses.
Hence my question.[/quote]

The use of pronoun "that"/ "those" and the pronoun " it" are not same - "that"/ "those" can be used as a pronoun that creates a copy of the noun it refers to. The following sentence is correct:

The Rock Mountain News reported that the foreclosure rate in 2007 was 5.9%, 1.1 percent more than that in 1988.

Here "that" refers to just "foreclosure rate" - it creates a new copy of the rate.

This copy-creating "that" pronoun must always have a modifier attached to it that elaborates how the copy is different from the original.

The original "foreclosure" is different from the copy "that" in that the original is in 2007 and the copy is in 1988.

Similarly the original "thorns" is different from that copy "those" in that the original is of desert roses, whereas the copy is of roses that grow in temperate climates.[/quote]


Thanks sayantanc2k for the explanation.
Its clear now

Hi sayantanc2k,

Although I understand the reason behind C being correct but I feel choice C changes the meaning as it removes the contrast which was set up by 'while'. Is choice C correct but not ideal or this construction also conveys the same meaning. Thanks.

Can you also shed some light on use of however and nevertheless. Can these two be used like 'while' in dependent clauses or not?

The contrast is set up by "unlike" and "though" later in the sentence. "While" is not required to set up the contrast. Choice C is alright.

"Nonetheless" and " however" are in most cases interchangeable. However (or nonetheless) "however" is closer to convey the meaning "but", whereas "nonetheless" is closer to the convey the meaning "even then" or "in spite of ". "While" is probably a dependent clause substitute for both, but I am not sure whether there could be cases in which it is not so.

We have look for comparison and contrast in the above problem.


A-Incorrect While the thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms, unlike roses
Here roses are compared with thorns, which is in the non-underline part. At the same time while is not required because here no contrast is shown the first part of the sentence before semicolon
B- Incorrect All roses’ protective thorns dissuade predators from feeding on their blooms; unlike those
Here those can refer to roses or thorns
C- Correct The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
Here "those" refers to thorns and comparison is clear
D- IncorrectWhile all roses’ thorns are protective, they dissuade predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses
While is unnecessary, no contrast is shown.
E- IncorrectThe thorns of all roses are protective and dissuade predators feeding on their blooms, however, unlike those
Same as B

Please help me. I am confused regarding Option C, which reads:

The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers’ blooms; unlike those of roses that grow in temperate climates

Does this suggest that thorns, not whole roses, grow in temperate climates?

Please help me. I am confused regarding Option C, which reads:

The thorns of all roses are protective, dissuading predators from feeding on the flowers??? blooms; unlike those of roses that grow in temperate climates

Does this suggest that thorns, not whole roses, grow in temperate climates?

The essential modifier "that grow in temperate climates...." touches (and hence refers) to the noun "roses". This construction implies that the roses (not just the thorns) grow in temperate climates.

Note: You are confused probably because certain guides suggest that a modifier cannot refer to an object of preposition - this concept is incorrect. Please study from established good quality guides (I used Manhattan).

OFFICIAL EXPLANATION

The first part of the sentence describes a feature that all roses have in common; the second draws a distinction between temperate-climate roses and desert roses. The comparison signaled by unlike should be constructed carefully so as to preserve parallelism without distorting the intended message of the sentence.

(A) The use of both while and though is redundant. The comparison is not parallel; unlike roses, the thorns of desert roses. The sentence illogically compares roses grown in one area to the thorns of another type of rose.

(B) The comparison is illogical: unlike those that grow in temperate climates, the thorns of desert roses serve. Parallelism dictates that those should refer to thorns, illogically suggesting that thorns, not whole roses, grow in temperate climates. Even if those is taken to stand for the thorns of desert roses, the meaning is still illogical because, according to the sentence, desert roses do not grow in temperate regions.

(C) CORRECT. The portion of the sentence preceding the semicolon is a complete sentence that correctly uses the adverbial modifier dissuading to elaborate on the idea that thorns are protective. The comparison in the second clause is parallel, using those to stand for thorns and thereby creating a comparison between [the thorns] of roses that grow in temperate regions and the thorns of desert roses.

(D) The portion of the sentence preceding the semicolon doesn’t make sense. While draws a contrast between the notion that thorns are protective and the idea that they dissuade predators from feeding on rose blooms—but the second idea supports the first one; it is not in contrast.

(E) When and is used to connect two thoughts, those two thoughts do not need to be related to each other. It doesn’t make sense, though, to say that the thorns are protective and, separately, the thorns dissuade predators. Rather, the thorns are protective because they persuade predators. The sentence also contains an idiom error. The predators are dissuaded from doing something; this sentence lacks the word from. Finally, the comparison is illogical: unlike those that grow in temperate climates, the thorns of desert roses serve. Parallelism dictates that those should refer to thorns, illogically suggesting that thorns, not whole roses, grow in temperate climates. Even if those is taken to stand for the thorns of desert roses, the meaning is still illogical because, according to the sentence, desert roses do not grow in temperate regions.

It's a clear case of illogical comparison.So 'those of' is very much needed here. Now, we can eliminate A,B,E easily. Now remain C & D. But it is a case of illogical comparison so it compares thorns with roses not roses with rose that's why option D should be eliminated also. So, options C is correct.
Please Give qudos if you like explanation.

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