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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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thangvietnam wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79



n(E or F or I) = n(E) + n(F) + n(I) - n(E and F) - n(F and I) - n(I and E) +n(E and F and I)

n(E or F or I) = 26 + 26 + 32 - 0 - 11 - 6 + 0

Why is the number of people who traveled to E and F and I 0? Because no one traveled to both England and France. So obviously, no one would have traveled to England, France and Italy.

n(E or F or I) = 67

Answer (B)


i am confused, pls, help me.

I think the formulae is

N= E+F+I - N(E AND F) - N (F and I)- N (I and E) - 2 N (E AND F AND I)

we need minuse two times the number of member who travel to 3 countries- in this case this number is zero.
but in general formulae, we need minus, not plus .

pls, explain, i am confused.


These are two different formulas:

Total = n(A) + n(B) + n(C) – n(A and B) – n(B and C) – n(C and A) + n(A and B and C) + n(No Set)

Total = n(A) + n(B) + n(C) – n(Only A and B) – n(Only B and C) – n( Only C and A) - 2* n(A and B and C) + n(No Set)

n(A and B) in first formula includes the elements falling in n(A and B and C)
n(Only A and B) in second formula does not include the elements falling in n(A and B and C). It has element which fall in A and B only, not in C.
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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Answer is B) 67

Draw Venn diagram to represent this and you'll notice that people traveled to more than one country but not all three. The question is same as how many people traveled ?

So 26 + 26 + 32 - (11 + 6) = 67
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79


Attachment:
Venn Diagram.JPG
Venn Diagram.JPG [ 37.54 KiB | Viewed 92524 times ]


a+b= 6
b+c = 11
Refer England team: a+b+ (persons who only went to England) = 26
Persons who only went to England = 26 - (a+b) = 26-6 = 20

Refer French team: b+c+(persons who only went to France) = 26
Persons who only went to France = 26 - (b+c) = 15

Refer Italian team: a+b+c+f = 32

Now with above info.

Members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries = Nothing but summation of all values (take only once)

Leftmost circle (England) : (20+a+b)
French: 15+c (all remaining already covered in previous circle)
Italy: f (all other variables taken in previous two circles)

(20+a+b)+(15+c)+f will give the answer

20+15+ a+b+c+f = 35+32 = 67

B is the answer.
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Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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to england=26
to france = 26
to italy=32
england and france =0
england and italy = 6
france and italy =11
all 3=0
neither=0

total=26+26+32-(0+6+11)+0 +0
= 67

Originally posted by CounterSniper on 05 Jul 2016, 02:57.
Last edited by CounterSniper on 05 Jul 2016, 07:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79



n(E or F or I) = n(E) + n(F) + n(I) - n(E and F) - n(F and I) - n(I and E) +n(E and F and I)

n(E or F or I) = 26 + 26 + 32 - 0 - 11 - 6 + 0

Why is the number of people who traveled to E and F and I 0? Because no one traveled to both England and France. So obviously, no one would have traveled to England, France and Italy.

n(E or F or I) = 67

Answer (B)


i am confused, pls, help me.

I think the formulae is

N= E+F+I - N(E AND F) - N (F and I)- N (I and E) - 2 N (E AND F AND I)

we need minuse two times the number of member who travel to 3 countries- in this case this number is zero.
but in general formulae, we need minus, not plus .

pls, explain, i am confused.
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Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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Attached is a visual that should help. Note that 3! is 6, which confirms that there are only 3 overlapping sets of 2 to account for.
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
CounterSniper wrote:
to england=26
to france = 26
to italy=32
england and france =0
england and italy = 6
france and italy =11
all 3=0
neither=0

total=26+26+32-(0+6+11)+0 +0
= 67


I did it the same way as well, however I wasn't sure of one thing. How do we know that all three = 0? If nothing is mentioned about it, is it assumed to be 0?
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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Neeraj91 wrote:
CounterSniper wrote:
to england=26
to france = 26
to italy=32
england and france =0
england and italy = 6
france and italy =11
all 3=0
neither=0

total=26+26+32-(0+6+11)+0 +0
= 67


I did it the same way as well, however I wasn't sure of one thing. How do we know that all three = 0? If nothing is mentioned about it, is it assumed to be 0?


No, it is not assumed. If you take ALL three as Non Zero, then we will have few who travel to both England and France. But the question stem says, we don't have anyone who traveled to both England and France.

I hope its clear now.
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
Hi Bunuel ,

Could you please help me understand . As where in the question it is given that intersection of all the 3 is 0 .
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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abhisheknandy08 wrote:
Hi Bunuel ,

Could you please help me understand . As where in the question it is given that intersection of all the 3 is 0 .


This is explained in Karishma's post above: "Why is the number of people who traveled to E and F and I 0? Because no one traveled to both England and France. So obviously, no one would have traveled to England, France and Italy".
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79


We are asked for members who traveled to at least one of these three countries, it can also include members who have traveled two.

As per the attachment, the calculation will be

\(20 + 6 + 15 + 11 + 15 = 67\)

Hence, Answer is B
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Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79


We are given the following:

England travelers = 26

France travelers = 26

Italy travelers = 32

England and France travelers = 0

England and Italy travelers = 6

France and Italy travelers = 11

Although it’s not stated directly, we can determine that 0 people traveled to all 3 countries because 0 people traveled to both England and France.

In determining how many people traveled to at least one country, we are actually determining the total number of travelers, since each traveler did travel to at least one country. We can do this with the following formula:

Total travelers = England + France + Italy - sum of (exactly two countries) - 2 times (all three countries)

Total travelers = 26 + 26 + 32 - (6 + 11 + 0) - 2(0)

Total travelers = 84 - 17 - 0 = 67

Thus, 67 people traveled to at least one country.

Answer: B
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79



n(E or F or I) = n(E) + n(F) + n(I) - n(E and F) - n(F and I) - n(I and E) +n(E and F and I)

n(E or F or I) = 26 + 26 + 32 - 0 - 11 - 6 + 0

Why is the number of people who traveled to E and F and I 0? Because no one traveled to both England and France. So obviously, no one would have traveled to England, France and Italy.

n(E or F or I) = 67

Answer (B)


Responding to a pm:

Quote:
Hi, in this problem, you have concluded that members traveling to all three countries is 0, based on "Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France" from the problem statement. However, in the context of the whole question, it seems as if the implication is "no members traveled to E and F exclusively".

What would the problem statement have to be to rule out the members traveling to all three countries not 0?


This is what the problem states: "Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France"

Both (England and France) is 0.

So no one could have travelled to both countries. Hence, travelling to all 3 is not possible.

Had the question said: "Last year no members of the club traveled to England and France only"
then all three was possible.
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Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79



n(E or F or I) = n(E) + n(F) + n(I) - n(E and F) - n(F and I) - n(I and E) +n(E and F and I)

n(E or F or I) = 26 + 26 + 32 - 0 - 11 - 6 + 0

Why is the number of people who traveled to E and F and I 0? Because no one traveled to both England and France. So obviously, no one would have traveled to England, France and Italy.

n(E or F or I) = 67

Answer (B)


Responding to a pm:

Quote:
Hi, in this problem, you have concluded that members traveling to all three countries is 0, based on "Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France" from the problem statement. However, in the context of the whole question, it seems as if the implication is "no members traveled to E and F exclusively".

What would the problem statement have to be to rule out the members traveling to all three countries not 0?


This is what the problem states: "Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France"

Both (England and France) is 0.

So no one could have travelled to both countries. Hence, travelling to all 3 is not possible.

Had the question said: "Last year no members of the club traveled to England and France only"
then all three was possible.


Hi karishma VeritasKarishma

I am struggling with your implication regarding this statement : "Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France", implies travelling to all 3 is not possible

Specifically, If i were to pose the following scenario

-- There are the three groups of people (26 English / 26 French/ 32 Italian)
-- Last year no Englishmen, traveled to France

Question : in this scenario, you would obviously mark "Nil" in the image and not mark "Nil" automatically in space B in the image [Reasoning : maybe there are Italians who have traveled to England and France]

Why the difference in logic in this scenario ?
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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jabhatta@umail.iu.edu wrote:
Hi karishma VeritasKarishma

I am struggling with your implication regarding this statement : "Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France", implies travelling to all 3 is not possible

Specifically, If i were to pose the following scenario

-- There are the three groups of people (26 English / 26 French/ 32 Italian)
-- Last year no Englishmen, traveled to France

Question : in this scenario, you would obviously mark "Nil" in the image and not mark "Nil" automatically in space B in the image [Reasoning : maybe there are Italians who have traveled to England and France]

Why the difference in logic in this scenario ?


The question does not say that Englishmen travel to another country. The people we are talking about are, say Australian.

"Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy."

If some of them already belong to one of the three countries mentioned, the question makes no sense. So say we have a club of Australian people and these are their travel histories. If no one travelled to both England and France, then obviously no one travelled to England, France and Italy.
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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
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Bunuel wrote:
Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members traveled to France, and 32 members traveled to Italy. Last year no members of the club traveled to both England and France, 6 members traveled to both England and Italy, and 11 members traveled to both France and Italy. How many members of the club traveled to at least one of these three countries last year?

A) 52
B) 67
C) 71
D) 73
E) 79


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Re: Last year 26 members of a certain club traveled to England, 26 members [#permalink]
IMO B.
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