To this day, researchers and theorists debate whether bubonic plague c

What is the specific rule regarding the phrase "whether or not" ? In this example, the explanation says that whether is the correct phrase and that "whether or not" is redundant.

Here is another example used on the GMAT SC

"Whether or not the board understands the ramifications of the proposal depends on how clearly the costs and benefits are laid out in the presentation this afternoon."

So why is it okay to use "whether or not" here but not in the OP?

"whether or not" is always wrong. It is considered redundant on the GMAT. Whether is the correct choice. Collect your points and move on.

I agree with roboas - "Whether or not" is consistently viewed as redundant on the GMAT and therefore incorrect (one of the few times you will use concision to make eliminations on Sentence Correction).

Did the 2nd example you cited come from the OG? If so, is "whether or not" part of the underlined portion?

Eliminate C (you debate something, not about something), D, and E.

A or B.

I went with B here and am happy to have learned that "whether or not" is always incorrect on the GMAT!

Hi GMATers,

I came across the below in the free MGMAT CAT and wouldn't mind your view on it.

To this day, researchers and theorists debate whether bubonic plague caused The Black Death, a pandemic that swept the world in the middle of the fourteenth century.

whether
whether or not
about whether
as to whether
if

The official answer is (a) for it's concision, but I put (b) on the idea that 'whether or not' is an idiom. So what I'm trying to get my head around is in situations where concision can occur without prejudicing meaning, or an idiom if offered, what trumps what?

Thanks

B.

When people debate things, they argue different sides of an issue. The or not is not needed because the issue of "whether" only has two sides, so it's not necessary to say "whether or not."

For example:
They are debating the legitimacy of the law. (This is a two-sided issue, but it's not necessary to say "the legitimacy or illegitimacy.")
They are debating the legality of his actions. (This is a two-sided issue, but it's not necessary to say "legality or illegality.")
They are debating which color is the best. (This issue has more than two sides.)

Thanks NonYankee. I can see what you're saying, if a debate/decision/choice etc is binary, the or not
isn't necessary because its implied. In other words if not one, it must be the other.... and I actually agree. But my question is more about the conflict between an idiom ('whether or not') and the concision. Many idioms are not the most concise way of presenting an idea.

Perhaps it would be useful to outline what I think an idiom is (because I'm more than likely wrong): An idiom is a nuance of a language that allows us to speak/write in a way that isn't strictly grammatically correct.

I read your 800 debrief the other day too, well done!

Thanks, I hope you found my debrief interesting! Regarding idioms, we're in a same boat (pardon the idiom). I remember seeing "idiom" used as part of a SC answer explanation in OG 12. The sentence said something like the supreme court declared (something) unconstitutional, but the correct answer inverted the structure to be the supreme court declared unconstitutional (something) because the "something" was a long, complex phrase. I had never thought of declaring something unconstitutional as idiomatic, but I guess that goes to show my understanding of idioms (in a linguistic sense) is quite limited. I grew up thinking idioms were simply the phrases misunderstood by Amelia Bedilia.

The GMAT SC guidelines are something like the following (this is not necessarily the most current wording):
Choose the answer that produces the most effective sentence; this answer should be clear and exact, without awkwardness, ambiguity, redundancy, or grammatical error.

Per those instructions, I don't think there's ever a time it would be desirable to add unneeded words to make something idiomatic. Knowledge of idioms would be helpful in knowing whether something is free of grammatical error, however.

Is 'as to whether ’ incorrect due to wordy/redundancy?

Yes, it's incorrect due to redundancy. "As to" prior to a noun phrase generally can be taken to mean "regarding" or "about." One need not "debate about whether"--one may simply "debate whether."

The following would be a correct way to use "debate as to whether":
There is a debate as to whether goldfish are smarter than humans.

The following is a suboptimal (i.e. wrong, in the world of GMAT) way to use "debate as to whether":
Scientists debate as to whether goldfish are smarter than humans.

Notice that in the first example, debate is a noun; in the second example, debate is a verb.

Can someone please explain the difference between the usage of 'if' and 'whether' ?

To this day, researchers and theorists debate whether bubonic plague caused The Black Death, a pandemic that swept the world in the middle of the fourteenth century.


whether - Correct.

whether or not - Redundant.

about whether - debate about - incorrect idiom.

as to whether - Debate as to - incorrect.

if - Wrong.






Whether is used if we are not sure of the outcome i.e. if we have a uncertainty about something. For e.g. John is not sure whether he'll score 760 on the GMAT [or not].
The negative side [or not] is usually not mentioned explicitly.
If is used when we want to state a condition. For e.g. John will throw a party, if he scores 760 on the GMAT. Here, a condition is given on the result.

Please give kudos if this all makes sense !

Can someone explain why C is wrong ? Is it purely because of wordiness or is it grammatically wrong ?

Thanks

C is gramatically wrong. The verb "debate" does not take the preposition "about".

Correct: The politicains debated the law.
Wrong: The politicians debated about the law.
Correct: The politicians debated whether the law would be benificial. ("debate whether" does not take " about" either)
Wrong: The politicians debated about whether the law would be benificial. ("debate whether" does not take " about" either)

"Whether" is the most concise way to indicate that researchers and theorists are debating between alternative causes of the pandemic.

(A) CORRECT.  This sentence is correct as written for the reason stated above.
(B) "Whether or not" is redundant; "whether" by itself indicates the full meaning.
(C) "About whether" is both redundant and awkward.
(D) "As to whether" is both redundant and awkward.
(E) "If" is used to indicate a condition or a future possibility, but this sentence is not indicating either of these things.  "Whether," which introduces a choice or an alternative, is the correct usage.

'About' is a preposition. It takes only a noun or noun phrase following it. It cannot precede a clause such as in C

If there is an option over whether, will it be right?