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Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA

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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 01 Jan 2009, 03:16
Take a look at this profile: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/mb ... ller/1.htm

I got in with a 660 and two years work experience. And, I didn't graduate from a well-known undergraduate institution, either.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 01 Jan 2009, 05:07
BSchoolorBust wrote:
Take a look at this profile: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/mb ... ller/1.htm

I got in with a 660 and two years work experience. And, I didn't graduate from a well-known undergraduate institution, either.


Nice read. 660 and in Stanford, interesting.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 02 Jan 2009, 07:10
That girl sounds pretty awesome. I'm sure she'll be a hit at Stanford.

That said, I never thought I'd say this, but... I agree with Pelihu. Would this applicant have gotten into Stanford if she were a he and white? There's no way to know, obviously, but if I had to bet on it, I think the safe money would be on a big fat ding, no interview.

I'm a white dude from a family that wasn't poor, so I won't get on a soapbox here about affirmative action, except to say that this admissions process is a little frustrating for someone who can't check all the boxes my schools are looking for to up their demographic numbers.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 02 Jan 2009, 08:01
However, I am wondering why not so many females score high in GMAT since they usually have much better test scores at school and much better GPA's.
Also, there was some data showing that much more females attend college these days than males

It would be interesting to see by gender and by race type of stats breakdown on the GMAC website but I think they just have scores from different countries and thats all they disclose to the public
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 02 Jan 2009, 11:31
Saying hat most of low-GMAT admits at top schools are female is quite different from saying that most low GMAT scorers are female. Just look at the awesome scores of the various AC, jjola21, etc.

I did not get an interview from Stanford. I think it's fair to say that if I were Palestinian I would have stood a 90% admit chance, my profile being just as strong as it is now. The thing is that I would have had a far dimmer chance of building a profile as strong as mine now! So I must say I'm still at an advantage.

It's true that affirmative action can distort the selection process (elites of developing countries/minorities are widely advantaged) yet the schools must optimize for diversity in the interest of their admits, and rightly so.

A thought that lingers in my mind: in retrospective, one should take much more risk in choosing his undergrad job to maximize her chances in getting an admit for a top school: securing a job at a high-level nonprofit, for example. I see far less competition in proportion with H/S admit chances there than in any other industry:

if we format industries as: Industry (difficulty in getting job, admit chances after 2-3 years):

PE/VC (vh, vh)
MC/IB (vh, h)
Non-profit (m, vh)

I would love some inputs on this point.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 02 Jan 2009, 13:18
FYI, it's very tough to get a job at a high-level, well-known non-profit right out of college with no experience. They don't recruit and get a truckload of resumes - every liberal arts major at every university within 100 miles applies for the lowliest administrative assistant position. To get in doing something substantive is even harder, and usually requires that you know someone (either through an internship, a fluke, or nepotism). Just my experience.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 02 Jan 2009, 13:28
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Also, for what its worth, while you might be able to get into a top school with AA, you certainly can't get a job with it.

If you don't have a 3.5+, you're still out of luck. Actually I know there is a lot of frustration amongst minorities that firms go to places like Howard, Morehouse and Spelman to recruit minorities with 3.8s etc., but don't take Ivy League/Stanford/Duke/MIT minorities with 3.0-3.3s as the quality of some of the HBCU's is only slightly above top prep schools.

It doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 14 Jan 2009, 17:16
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Hey guys, another clubber suggested that I post my story to this thread. I was accepted by Ross this week with a 650. My stats:

28 year-old white US male. 3.7 undergrad from Wisconsin with a double major in business and English. 4.5 years WE for two small businesses, transitioning from sales into a marketing/brand leadership role. Boss was a Kellogg alum (owned both businesses). Launched a company with my father in Spring '07 that has consumed the bulk of my free time since. Lots of club level activities in college, few since graduating outside of recreational athletics. Heading down a brand/sports marketing path.

I was waitlisted at Kellogg last year in round 2 and eventually dinged over the summer.
This year I applied to Ross, Kellogg, Duke and Wisconsin. In at Ross, dinged at Kellogg, on the waitlist at Duke and will hear back from Wisconsin later.

My GMAT story:

10/07 - 650 (36Q/42V 5.5 AWA)
12/07 - 650 (45Q/35V 5.5 AWA)
4/08 - 650 (42Q/38V 6 AWA)
8/08 - 630 (41Q/35V 6 AWA)

Obviously not the trajectory I was hoping for!

If I had to comment on my candidacy (not in order of imporance):
1. My undergraduate grades were solid, especially in the quant areas. Nothing below a B in micro and macro econ, stats, calc, finance, real estate finance, managerial and financial accounting. I have to think this mitigated the quant side of my GMATs. I did not waste my time explaining my GMAT in any optional essay. What's there to say?
2. Despite coming from a well represented demogrpahic, my work history is different. Both small businesses had a great deal of responsibility/scope/involvement. I was able to write about a wide variety of experiences, especially with the company we founded.
3. I spent a large part of my summer researching schools and wittling down my list to four schools that I REALLY wanted to go and that would be able to launch me after graduation. This meant spending a lot of time talking to current students, mostly over the phone and via email. This was done by contacting the clubs I was interested in and asking the right questions.
4. Probably most important - I was sincere in my interest and in my essays. As per #3, I picked schools that I really wanted to attend. The marginal difference between them is extremely small, in my opinion. Writing my essays was a relatively easy process because I had a pretty deep list of genuine reasons.
5. Specifically to Ross - "fit" can be a pretty esoteric thing. There are tons of programs that people can "fit" into. For me, it was as simple being at ease with the alums and current students and feeling like I had something to offer them as a peer and teammate. I drove to Ann Arbor for my interview (without visiting prior) and met up with an MBA2 that I'd chatted with before. We met for happy hour and I had a great time meeting him and the other Rossers. My interview the next day was very natural and I think my enthusiasm for the program came through. I could easily see myself there for two years.

I hope this is of some help to those in similar situations. As important as the GMAT is, it truly is only one component. Be honest with yourself in what you want to do and the type of program you need to do it. Be sincere. Be genuine. Don't let rankings determine your path for you. Pick places that will make you happy for two years and beyond.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2009, 10:53
spiridon wrote:
However, I am wondering why not so many females score high in GMAT since they usually have much better test scores at school and much better GPA's.
Also, there was some data showing that much more females attend college these days than males

It would be interesting to see by gender and by race type of stats breakdown on the GMAC website but I think they just have scores from different countries and thats all they disclose to the public


If you go to the GMAC website they have a report that details everything by Male, Female, Race etc. I think I remember the average white male around 550 and average white female slightly lower. African-Americans were the lowest around 440.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2009, 10:55
gixxer1000 wrote:
spiridon wrote:
However, I am wondering why not so many females score high in GMAT since they usually have much better test scores at school and much better GPA's.
Also, there was some data showing that much more females attend college these days than males

It would be interesting to see by gender and by race type of stats breakdown on the GMAC website but I think they just have scores from different countries and thats all they disclose to the public


If you go to the GMAC website they have a report that details everything by Male, Female, Race etc. I think I remember the average white male around 550 and average white female slightly lower. African-Americans were the lowest around 440.


Can u post that link, I doubt that GMAC would have such a thing
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2009, 11:45
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spiridon wrote:
Can u post that link, I doubt that GMAC would have such a thing


The question was not addressed to me - but here is the link:

http://www.gmac.com/nr/rdonlyres/f3b73942-8a93-4fc2-bb8d-1e8735158b80/0/profileofgmatcandidates0408.pdf

You can see the stats by gender, race, age etc. Data from earlier years is also available.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2009, 12:22
greenoak wrote:
spiridon wrote:
Can u post that link, I doubt that GMAC would have such a thing


The question was not addressed to me - but here is the link:

http://www.gmac.com/nr/rdonlyres/f3b73942-8a93-4fc2-bb8d-1e8735158b80/0/profileofgmatcandidates0408.pdf

You can see the stats by gender, race, age etc. Data from earlier years is also available.

Wonderful stuff bunch of kudos for you!
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2010, 06:21
Hi all,my gmat score at my first and only attempt is 400.Very discouraging you'd agree with me!
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2010, 11:40
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i've edited the thread title to reflect low GPAs as well. here is an admit success story from drsatisfaction - GPA of 1.9, and admitted to oxford and insead.

my-road-to-oxford-sbs-and-insead-89413.html
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2010, 11:58
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shadowsjc wrote:
i've edited the thread title to reflect low GPAs as well. here is an admit success story from drsatisfaction - GPA of 1.9, and admitted to oxford and insead.

my-road-to-oxford-sbs-and-insead-89413.html


thanks man. wasn't sure where to put it but this is a good thread.

also, to clarify a bit on my profile:

Asian
25, 26 by matriculation
GPA 1.9 - admitted into school at 15 on a full scholarship though, and completely screwed off afterwards
GMAT - 760
WE - 6 yrs by matriculation, with 1.5 in a pretty senior leadership role. i manage all financial related issues on my company's business with 2 major Fortune 50 companies (think software maker and chocolate maker) and have a team of about 50 that all matrix into me for finance. this is worth easily $10+ million and i increased the profitability of the businesses significantly.

reading some of the earlier success stories, i must say, the essays are key. the reason i think i got into oxford was the fact that the 2nd essay is 2000 words and i went on a limb to really write a compelling case for myself as an outlier and distinguish my application from others. for INSEAD, i focused on the achievements i had at work. i'm not talking about winning awards or whatever. i'm talking about hard bottom line results that can't be argued with and the experiences i have managing people at a fairly young age.

also, references - i believe i got very strong references from my VP. i never got a chance to see what he wrote, but i have a great relationship with him and believe he really pushed for me in the references.

so overall my argument was - talent is not an issue with me. it's always been drive. i was 15 and i butchered my undergrad GPA. i've moved on, i've grown in life, and i can handle the work now. of course, some programs bought it and took me in, others didn't.
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My Road to Oxford and INSEAD http://gmatclub.com/forum/my-road-to-oxford-sbs-and-insead-89413.html#p676253

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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2010, 07:30
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Definitely a great thread. I don't dispute the point made earlier that being an URM doesn't play a role in admitting individuals from the lower end of a school's 80% GMAT/GPA range. But I think the diversity at the lower end of this range is not just limited to ethnicity or gender but also career background, career goals, and life stories, etc.

I spent most of my life until now refusing to "check the box" because I would rather know that I got somewhere in my life because I was great at what I do not because of my heritage. I was OK with my grades, OK with my test scores my entire life but always was the leader of everything I did and received several awards all through HS and Undergrad.

I only check the box now because I had a conversation with an AdCom member from a top 10 B-school who articulated to me that they don't see the URM status as being more lenient but they want and need a diverse program. Whether I check the box or not, they're going to maintain a diverse program either way and I may fit into one of the other "boxes" that they're looking for (career background, career goals, and life stories, etc.) given my solid marketing/advertising background and desire to go into a non-traditional career in Media and Entertainment. The big thing I might be passing on by not checking the URM box is scholarship money. Which, given the prospect of paying for everything myself with no help, is a BIG reason for me to check the box.

I apologize for the long commentary but I say all of this to say, the numbers don't say everything and because I can check that box does not mean it's the only reason why they're going to admit me. I still need to be able to succeed in B-school and even more importantly, I need to get a job and be an advocate for the school when I'm done and give them lots of money :-) . If I wanted to go into I-Banking or Consulting at a top firm with my GMAT, they would probably laugh at me because the odds of me getting a job with my GMAT is slim to none.

My profile and link below have my full background.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2010, 08:35
theoutlawfades wrote:
I spent most of my life until now refusing to "check the box" because I would rather know that I got somewhere in my life because I was great at what I do not because of my heritage. I was OK with my grades, OK with my test scores my entire life but always was the leader of everything I did and received several awards all through HS and Undergrad.

I only check the box now because I had a conversation with an AdCom member from a top 10 B-school who articulated to me that they don't see the URM status as being more lenient but they want and need a diverse program. Whether I check the box or not, they're going to maintain a diverse program either way and I may fit into one of the other "boxes" that they're looking for (career background, career goals, and life stories, etc.) given my solid marketing/advertising background and desire to go into a non-traditional career in Media and Entertainment. The big thing I might be passing on by not checking the URM box is scholarship money. Which, given the prospect of paying for everything myself with no help, is a BIG reason for me to check the box.


+1 on all counts, especially the bolded parts
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2010, 17:25
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GMAT: 610 (low quant)
GPA: 3.3
Nationality: USA
Age: (at matriculation): 28
Gender: M
Work Experience: Six years, consulting
Extra-curricular Activities/Community Services: Strong area for me, many unique experiences

Business Schools (Applied in R2): Wharton, Columbia, Chicago

Though my job is pretty quant heavy, I just could not crack the quant section of the GMAT. I demonstrated my quant ability through essays and asked my recommenders to focus on my quant skills.

Honestly, at the point in my career, going to a lower ranked school (ie, one where my GMAT "fits") is just not worth it for me. Though I have reasonable expectations for this process, I am going to be intrigued to see how much GMAT actually comes into play.

I have extensively networked at each of the three schools I have applied, and hope that the hustle factor, along with my essays/work experiences, will allow adcoms to wave me in.

Question: Though my best individual GMAT is a 610, if you combine my best verbal with my best quant (from consecutive GMAT takes) my score is roughly a 680. Any chance an adcom would take this into consideration.

Best of luck everyone...will report back when I have some news to report.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2010, 18:38
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I dont have much to report yet as im still waiting on decisions, but I was admitted to Duke with a 3.1 from a "party school". I think you can have a low GPA, or low GMAT, but if you have both you better be a URM or have some type of crazy story. Thats the vibe I have gotten.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink] New post 21 Jan 2010, 15:00
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Just received an interview invite from Booth today
Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA   [#permalink] 21 Jan 2010, 15:00
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