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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink]
24 Oct 2011, 20:13
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Sorry for reviving a old thread but I would just like to give a follow up on the Low GPA when it comes to recruiting. So all and all, most companies care very little to 0 on GPA. I have been asked twice, both this year, both consulting, one during the first round which resulted in an offer, the other during a second round which is pending. Outside of consulting, no one has asked me about GPA during an interview. But here's the results Interviewed with 2 of the M/B/B, [*]closed listed (Moved to 2nd round) [*]got a call which the recruiter asked to bid (dinged after first round), [*]Screening call (no interview) As for the other consulting firms, I was closelisted my first and/or second year from most top-20 consulting firms that recruited at Ross. I currently two offers from vault's top 10, one is a returning offer from my summer internship. If you have questions outside of Consulting, I can do a debrief of those also, but in general your prior experience matters most, I received most interviews that I either fit my background or I tried to networked. Alternatively, I went 1 for 4 in tech. I hope this helps all you low GPA people!
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink]
25 Nov 2011, 13:42
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Via wrote: Hey Guys/Gals,
I have a low undergrad GPA (2.99) and a low GMAT (650/44Q/35V/5.5AWA).
All in all, I applied to 8 schools (Kellogg, Tuck, Yale, Darden, McDonough, Kelley, Owen, Olin) and I was accepted to all of them. I also received significant scholarships (half tuition or full tuition) from 4 of them (Yale, Darden, Owen, McDonough).
My success, I believe, was a product of my research efforts and application strategy. Using my research on the GMAT Club and several other sources, I realized that I had several attributes that were appealing to admissions committees and I worked hard to highlight every one of them.
My approach:
Two and a half years ago, I realized that I wanted to attend graduate school. Specifically, I wanted to attend a competitive b-school program but I realized that my undergrad GPA was low. Therefore, I took graduate level classes within an MA in leadership and management program. I only took four classes within a year and a half period but I received a 3.75 GPA. I was able to highlight this GPA on my application to counter my undergrad GPA. Although I only took four classes, I argued that I earned good grades despite working full time as a general manager, dealing with several life changing events, and volunteering/etc...
About a year ago this month, I started researching b-schools in depth. I was addicted to the GMAT CLUB, BW Forums, the GMAC website to see GMAT statistics, books ("How to get into top B-school"), and 15 b-school websites. I also attended MBA Fairs and discovered groups like The Consortium. Basically, I was a research-a-holic last year.
Using my research, I decided to apply to the 8 schools I listed above. Given my low GPA and GMAT, I didn't know where I'd lie on the competitive ladder among b-school applicants. Therefore, I decided to apply to 1 top-5 school, 1 top-10, 2 top-15, and a couple of other programs that lied in the 15-35 range according to US News and BW rankings.
I then developed a very specific essay strategy that highlighted any and every attribute that I thought gave me a competitive advantage. My goal was to show that I was a success story, that I could succeed in any rigorous academic program, and that I would contribute to any b-school as a student and alum.
In my opinion, my positive attributes include: I'm a first generation hispanic/ I'm the first member of my family to pursue a graduate degree/ I'm in the Army and have deployed twice/ While I was at my undergrad institution- I was heavily involved in my student government as an elected officer/ I served as a tutor, Div 1 athlete, and as an elected and appointed club leader throughout my time in college / I continue to serve as a Class Officer for my undergrad alumni organization/ I earned a 3.75 GPA in graduate level courses despite losing two family members and working full time as a general manager. As a general manager, I received formal ratings that eventually placed me in the top 2% of my peer group. There were a couple of other small data points I added to my essays but you get the point.
When I was writing my essays, I tried to answer the unique questions of each b-school while inserting these attributes to develop a unique story of enduring success. After endless revisions to my b-school essays, I submitted all of my applications by Round 2 for each school. I applied to 5 schools through the Consortium and 3 schools independently.
Some other things that I believe helped me:
I visited every school to which I applied and I highlighted that fact during my interviews. I searched for "key" terms each admissions committee was likely looking for. In my opinion, some of these include: Olin: Research driven thinking/Kelley: family, community, involvement / Kellogg: collaboration, Look at their 4 pillars ie. Intellectual Depth, Diversity of thought.../ Tuck: loyalty, community, friendship, advantage of a b-school education in a rural setting (ie. less distractions, community, focus, etc.)/ Darden: Case Method, working on a team to solve cases, interactive classroom environment.
Every school has a unique community and academic experience that they want to sustain. Figure out what that is and show how you could contribute to it.
Many of you have pointed out that, unless you are an underrepresented minority, female, or have unique work experience, you may not be able to overcome a low GPA or GMAT. Overall, that may be true. However, there are no absolutes in this world. I think everyone has positive attributes that can make them look very competitive despite poor stats. I could have easily applied to less prestigious schools and have saved a lot of time & money in dropping my Kellogg, Tuck, Darden, and Yale applications. Also, had I failed to highlight my strengths to the admissions committee, I could have experienced multiple rejections that some applicants with very high GPAs and GMATs have experienced. In the end, it never hurts to fight for your candidacy and apply to the b-school programs you love.
Furthermore, I believe that, even as a minority, I still overcame major weaknesses in my application. I am certain that over 80% of the minority applicant pool at Kellogg had better stats than I did. It is rare to have both a low GPA AND low GMAT and get into a top 5 program.
Now that my application journey is over, I hope that this post will help some of you. I feel indebted to all of you who have contributed to GMAT Club and have educated me for the last couple of years.
Good luck on your applications!
-Via Hi Via - you are indeed an inspiration - 8 for 8 is simply amazing!. I particularly enjoyed where you talked about what is unique to each school - however, you didn't mention on Yale (dream school) - what would you say is Yale's sweet spot?
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink]
21 Feb 2013, 07:32
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Thought I'd write my story here and the other low GPA thread since I read through all of the low GPA threads a bunch of times when applying because I was so nervous about my chances. Hopefully I will give another low GPA-er some hope!
Profile: Age/gender: 28 y/o female GPA: 2.9 from a top 10 liberal arts school, economics major GMAT: 700 and 690 (yes did worse the second time), don't remember my split but my quant was nowhere near that 80% everyone says to get. WE: 3 years in a rotational program for a well known financial services firm, 3 years in risk at a global investment bank Extracurriculars: Captain of sports team in college, consistent volunteering since college (some leadership positions and unique stuff), very involved with former college, and have a lot of hobbies I mentioned in my apps to sort of differentiate myself.
Schools I applied to and results (all Rnd 1 or Regular Decision):
Wharton: Waitlisted (after a terrible interview mind you, Team Discussion was great, but interview, yikes) Kellogg: Waitlisted Columbia: Accepted Fuqua: Accepted Stern: Accepted
I think the following helped my case:
1. A clear idea/and description in my apps of my career goals, why an MBA would help them, why that specific school's MBA would help them, why now was the time I was pursuing MBA, and how my prior work experience would help me achieve those goals. I had heard that schools worry career changers won't find jobs if it is too great of a change, so I highlighted aspects/stories of my work experience that directly applies to my goals. I also made sure to show why I was passionate about my goals and what had led me to realize my goals.
2. In addition to tying my work experience to my goals, I tried to give examples of leadership at work. I told a couple of stories that demonstrated me taking initiative and leading teams. I also told my recommenders that schools like that so if they had any stories to put in their recommendations that would be great. Don't know what my recommenders ended up writing, but I did send them both an email with what my goals are and some of my professional and personal accomplishments.
3. Once you start doing in depth research on a school and its programs, it is pretty easy to figure out what is important to that school (what type of candidate they are looking for). So in each of my essays, I made sure to pick examples and tailor my message to that specific school's values.
4. I took two classes in the summer before I applied, 1 accounting class and 1 math class (not calculus level) to show that I have quant skills and can be a good student, got A's in both courses. Was told specifically by one of the schools that they really liked that I took the initiative to take those courses.
5. I visited every school I applied to. Luckily for me this was easy and the only two schools I really had to fly to were Duke and Kellogg which meant I could self-initiate an interview while I was there. Just felt like this showed my interest but more importantly allowed me to speak of my visit in my application.
6. In general I just really tried to show that I was ready to fully engage in the program and the school's community. Also tried to show a coherent story as to how my career goals were formed, how MBA would help achieve them, and what I hoped to do in the short term and long term.
7. Just a note about the optional essay since I wondered about this. I chose note to come right out and say "I have a low GPA because...". Instead I chose to use the essay to highlight the two courses I took in an effort to prepare myself for the rigors or the MBA program and since I had been out of school for awhile.
Hope that is helpful to someone! Nothing earth shattering above, but there are so many things to keep in mind and think about in this whole process it's easy to just get stuck on your low gpa or gmat and think that means you're not a strong candidate. Especially looking on this board, it's amazing how many people have such strong stats. But you never know, you see people with 750 GMATs and 3.8 GPAs get rejected from top schools all the time while someone with much lower stats gets in. To me, that really shows that the adcoms really do take a look at the holistic picture. Good luck!
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA [#permalink]
21 Feb 2013, 08:43
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Hi,
I have friend having a GMAT score of 670, average ECs but good profile...he got call from ISB this year and also got selected... So apart from GMAT score, profile matters a lot..
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
18 Dec 2008, 09:49
This is a great idea. Thanks, yhc.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
18 Dec 2008, 11:26
Good one to see the stats.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
20 Dec 2008, 23:01
This thread has been here for several days, but no profiles have been posted. Does that mean people with a low GMAT score are destined to be denied?
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
20 Dec 2008, 23:13
yhc25 wrote: This thread has been here for several days, but no profiles have been posted. Does that mean people with a low GMAT score are destined to be denied?  Right, I was just about to ask the same thing.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
23 Dec 2008, 08:00
pelihu wrote: I've said it many times, and received negative comments many many times, but I'll say it again. People admitted with GMAT scores more than 20-30 points below the median for a given school are either underrepresented minorities or have some other easily identifiable unique factors that support their candidacy. People without such factors and not from such underrepresented groups can rely on little more than pure luck if their scores are more than 30 points below the average. I have to agree with this assessment. We're talking about top programs here. It's difficult enough for many of us to even get admit to one! Sure, there are exceptions, but they are outliers. One admissions consultant I've talked to once said: "The 80 percentile GMAT range posted in the class profile? Unless you are an african american, native american, hispanic, or female - don't bother look at the lower end of that range." I didn't believe that person at first, but more and more that consultant sounds right.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
24 Dec 2008, 06:02
GMAT: 670 (Q:50, V:30, AWA:4) University attended: ENSAM (French top leading engineering school) Major(s): Mechanical engineering GPA / Honours:N/A Nationality: French / Congo Age: (at matriculation) 31 Gender: Male Work Experience: 6 / Consulting / Associate Extra-curricular Activities: Many Community Services: Many Business Schools (Admitted): Columbia in the ED Business Schools (Applied but Dinged): Hope this gives hope
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
24 Dec 2008, 06:07
Eden52 wrote: GMAT: 670 (Q:50, V:30, AWA:4) University attended: ENSAM (French top leading engineering school) Major(s): Mechanical engineering GPA / Honours:N/A Nationality: French / Congo <-- Age: (at matriculation) 31 Gender: Male Work Experience: 6 / Consulting / Associate Extra-curricular Activities: Many Community Services: Many Business Schools (Admitted): Columbia in the ED Business Schools (Applied but Dinged): Hope this gives hope 
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
24 Dec 2008, 07:33
ninkorn wrote: pelihu wrote: I've said it many times, and received negative comments many many times, but I'll say it again. People admitted with GMAT scores more than 20-30 points below the median for a given school are either underrepresented minorities or have some other easily identifiable unique factors that support their candidacy. People without such factors and not from such underrepresented groups can rely on little more than pure luck if their scores are more than 30 points below the average. I have to agree with this assessment. We're talking about top programs here. It's difficult enough for many of us to even get admit to one! Sure, there are exceptions, but they are outliers. One admissions consultant I've talked to once said: "The 80 percentile GMAT range posted in the class profile? Unless you are an african american, native american, hispanic, or female - don't bother look at the lower end of that range." I didn't believe that person at first, but more and more that consultant sounds right. I think also coming from an underepresented work experience background can be added to that.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
24 Dec 2008, 09:07
Eden52 wrote: GMAT: 670 (Q:50, V:30, AWA:4) University attended: ENSAM (French top leading engineering school) Major(s): Mechanical engineering GPA / Honours:N/A Nationality: French / Congo Age: (at matriculation) 31 Gender: Male Work Experience: 6 / Consulting / Associate Extra-curricular Activities: Many Community Services: Many Business Schools (Admitted): Columbia in the ED Business Schools (Applied but Dinged): Hope this gives hope  Interesting post, even though I think your GMAT score is actually very strong because u r not expected to score high in verbal as non-native speaker! Q50 says that u r very strong in math (but u r ingenieur right!) Overall 670 is a competitive score... Wondering if we r gonna see something like white-american-male or IT-indian-male with 610 accepted in any of the top schools
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
30 Dec 2008, 22:37
Found a few more interesting profiles. First - 640 and got into Duke. Second - friend got 640 and got into Stanford. These are from the beatthegmat forums.
---------------------------------------- suffissd:
I am a 24 year old white female, and I majored in Biochemistry, Biophysics and Molecular Biology. I had a 3.40 undergraduate GPA, and then I got a certificate in Biochemistry where my GPA was 3.89. My GMAT was 640 (35V/44Q, 6 Analytical Writing)
I only have 1.5 years of work experience (which I think proves quality is better than quantity) at the National Institutes of Health where I got a prestigious fellowship to work on the AIDS virus. I was elected the Fellow-Chair of my institute at the NIH which gives me some management experience.
I think what really got me in were my letters of recommendations which were amazing, and then my essays with an emphasis on how everything I have done thus far in health care will enable me to be successful in the Health Sector Management Concentration which I plan to pursue.
I also tried to set myself apart from other applicants in my essays by talking about being an Academic All American in Snowboarding which I was very dedicated to in College.
Good Luck! -------------------------------------------------
Leonard C:
Just found out a friend of mine was accepted at Stanford with a 640 GMAT. He was on the wait-list for a while but has now been accepted. He was also accepted first round into LBS.
His background is not extraordinary - worked for six years at a top 100 company (mining sector) in Australia, progression rate normal, but had fantastic references. He's also a great writer, so I'm guessing his essays were good.
I also heard (not sure whether this is true) that six people with an 800 GMAT score applied to Stanford last year, and all were rejected. -------------------------------------------------
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
31 Dec 2008, 01:02
foodstamp wrote: -------------------------------------------------
Leonard C:
Just found out a friend of mine was accepted at Stanford with a 640 GMAT. He was on the wait-list for a while but has now been accepted. He was also accepted first round into LBS.
His background is not extraordinary - worked for six years at a top 100 company (mining sector) in Australia, progression rate normal, but had fantastic references. He's also a great writer, so I'm guessing his essays were good.
I also heard (not sure whether this is true) that six people with an 800 GMAT score applied to Stanford last year, and all were rejected. ------------------------------------------------- Never underestimate the power of references from people-in-the-know for the school. I knew a person who got into Stanford with 680 GMAT and typical workexp ( I worked in same company but departments were different) but reco from a BIG person in indian industry who is kind of known as high level intellectual ( The person had good educational background and all, and I mentioned this success story before in Gmatclub and was ridiculed).
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
01 Jan 2009, 04:16
Take a look at this profile: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/mb ... ller/1.htmI got in with a 660 and two years work experience. And, I didn't graduate from a well-known undergraduate institution, either.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
01 Jan 2009, 06:07
BSchoolorBust wrote: Take a look at this profile: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/mb ... ller/1.htmI got in with a 660 and two years work experience. And, I didn't graduate from a well-known undergraduate institution, either.Nice read. 660 and in Stanford, interesting.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
02 Jan 2009, 08:10
That girl sounds pretty awesome. I'm sure she'll be a hit at Stanford.
That said, I never thought I'd say this, but... I agree with Pelihu. Would this applicant have gotten into Stanford if she were a he and white? There's no way to know, obviously, but if I had to bet on it, I think the safe money would be on a big fat ding, no interview.
I'm a white dude from a family that wasn't poor, so I won't get on a soapbox here about affirmative action, except to say that this admissions process is a little frustrating for someone who can't check all the boxes my schools are looking for to up their demographic numbers.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
02 Jan 2009, 09:01
However, I am wondering why not so many females score high in GMAT since they usually have much better test scores at school and much better GPA's. Also, there was some data showing that much more females attend college these days than males It would be interesting to see by gender and by race type of stats breakdown on the GMAC website but I think they just have scores from different countries and thats all they disclose to the public
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score [#permalink]
02 Jan 2009, 12:31
Saying hat most of low-GMAT admits at top schools are female is quite different from saying that most low GMAT scorers are female. Just look at the awesome scores of the various AC, jjola21, etc.
I did not get an interview from Stanford. I think it's fair to say that if I were Palestinian I would have stood a 90% admit chance, my profile being just as strong as it is now. The thing is that I would have had a far dimmer chance of building a profile as strong as mine now! So I must say I'm still at an advantage.
It's true that affirmative action can distort the selection process (elites of developing countries/minorities are widely advantaged) yet the schools must optimize for diversity in the interest of their admits, and rightly so.
A thought that lingers in my mind: in retrospective, one should take much more risk in choosing his undergrad job to maximize her chances in getting an admit for a top school: securing a job at a high-level nonprofit, for example. I see far less competition in proportion with H/S admit chances there than in any other industry:
if we format industries as: Industry (difficulty in getting job, admit chances after 2-3 years):
PE/VC (vh, vh) MC/IB (vh, h) Non-profit (m, vh)
I would love some inputs on this point.
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Re: Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools with Low GMAT Score
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02 Jan 2009, 12:31
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