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Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of

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Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of [#permalink] New post 15 Aug 2009, 11:44
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A
B
C
D
E

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Q40
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it.


A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct it.
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them
D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them
answer
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 26 Feb 2010, 19:10
Can anyone elaborate on this question?
I read the solution in the book and am still lost. It seems like even the correct answer has very odd construction.

Anyone?
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 26 Feb 2010, 19:33
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rohansherry wrote:
Q40
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct it.
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them
D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them
answer


it wrongly refers to non-existent computer company
to revise is the correct idiom
them - pronoun reference could be anything as most of them are plural
underlined portion should start with that construction, so that and in that isnt correct

Answer is D by looking at all the items mentioned above.
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 26 Feb 2010, 19:40
Thanks!
I struggled with that one for a while, now that you pointed out the idiom it seems so obvious :evil:
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2010, 11:46
IMO D - 'attempts to' correct idiom and 'so' not needed. Hence out of A and D - its D
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 28 Feb 2010, 13:26
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Hey All,

This question seems to have been mostly addressed, but I wanted to add a few small things.

Q40
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct it.
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them

NOTE: In A, B, and C, the phrases "so that" and "in that" would modify some kind of action, as in "He went to the store so that he could find Amy" or "It was a bad move in that it resulted in him getting dumped by Amy." We don't have an action we want to modify here (i.e., the only verb we have in the first half of the sentence is "are", and we're probably not modifying that).


D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them

NOTE: D & E both correctly employ a relative pronoun to modify the final noun. The phrase beginning with "that" (a relative pronoun) thus modifies whatever word came before it. In this case, this final phrase must be modifying "managerial blunders", not the entirety of the list. For this reason, the "them" is majorly wrong. First, it is ambiguous (could refer to any individual plural noun in the list, or the whole list). Second, it is nonsense, because we're already in a modifying phrase, so there should be no need to point towards the noun we're talking about.

Word up.

Hope that helps!
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2010, 23:41
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[/color]
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

This question seems to have been mostly addressed, but I wanted to add a few small things.

Q40
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct it.
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them

NOTE: In A, B, and C, the phrases "so that" and "in that" would modify some kind of action, as in "He went to the store so that he could find Amy" or "It was a bad move in that it resulted in him getting dumped by Amy." We don't have an action we want to modify here (i.e., the only verb we have in the first half of the sentence is "are", and we're probably not modifying that).


D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them

NOTE: D & E both correctly employ a relative pronoun to modify the final noun. The phrase beginning with "that" (a relative pronoun) thus modifies whatever word came before it. In this case, this final phrase must be modifying "managerial blunders", not the entirety of the list. For this reason, the "them" is majorly wrong. First, it is ambiguous (could refer to any individual plural noun in the list, or the whole list). Second, it is nonsense, because we're already in a modifying phrase, so there should be no need to point towards the noun we're talking about.

Word up.

Hope that helps!


The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct

Treat the compound subject as a single plural subject because the compound subject is plural. (I choose bloopers)

The computer company’s present troubles are a result of bloopers that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct
The reason why we do not need ‘them; is because the relative clause (that several....) already modifies bloopers and we don’t need a ‘them’ to state bloopers again.

Quoting you "D & E both correctly employ a relative pronoun to modify the final noun. The phrase beginning with "that" (a relative pronoun) thus modifies whatever word came before it. In this case, this final phrase must be modifying "managerial blunders", not the entirety of the list."

'that' modifies all 3 reasons because all 3 reason together cause the problem and not 'mangerial blunders'. ( tommy, you are being to hard on the managers :P )

'that' modifies the noun phrase(all 3 compund nouns in this case, not managerial blunders' as u stated) it touches, the only probable exception to this rule could be when 'that' modifies object of prepostion'.

Last edited by roshanaslam on 20 Aug 2010, 08:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 23 Aug 2010, 10:32
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Hey All,

Yes, relative pronouns are bit wishy-washy this way. They can modify the entire noun phrase, but they can also just modify the last noun. Logic really dictates what's happening.

I am in love with my car and the girlfriend that I met last week.

Clearly "that I met last week" is not modifying both nouns, but only the last one. Think of the modifier as a kind of adjective.

I am in love with the time and money that this new job affords me.

Clearly "that this new job affords me" is modifying both "time" and "money".

Either of these is considered correct, as long as it's clear which is meant.

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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 23 Aug 2010, 22:18
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

Yes, relative pronouns are bit wishy-washy this way. They can modify the entire noun phrase, but they can also just modify the last noun. Logic really dictates what's happening.

I am in love with my car and the girlfriend that I met last week.

Clearly "that I met last week" is not modifying both nouns, but only the last one. Think of the modifier as a kind of adjective.

I am in love with the time and money that this new job affords me.

Clearly "that this new job affords me" is modifying both "time" and "money".

Either of these is considered correct, as long as it's clear which is meant.

-t



tommy. thanks for the reply.
the is a verbal review question. question no. 87. quoting 'the verbal review', 'this sentence lists 3 causes of the company's troubles and suggests that the strategies to correct the cause have failed'

very clearly the strategies are for all the 3 nouns and not just ' managerial blunder'

though i understood what u tried to say in the first example('I am in love with my car and the girlfriend that I met last week') , wouldnt the gmat love to see a 'who' in place of a 'that' to refer to 'the girlfriend'?? yeah 'that' can refer to humans/objects/theories etc, but i guess gmat will make sure that 'who' refers to 'girlfriend' in this case.
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 24 Aug 2010, 01:33
chix475ntu wrote:
rohansherry wrote:
[color=#FF0000]it wrongly refers to non-existent computer company
[color=#FF0000]


I suppose "It" wrongly refers to Troubles . Correct me if I am mistaken !
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 25 Aug 2010, 12:45
Hey Rosha,

Thanks for the kind words on the song!

I'm not aware of any preference for "who" over "that" on the GMAT, but I suppose if you ever had a clear choice between that or who for a person, you'd go with "who". But there's nothing inherently WRONG with using "that" with people (only with using "who" with non people).

-t
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 31 Aug 2010, 11:31
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

This question seems to have been mostly addressed, but I wanted to add a few small things.

Q40
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct it.
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them
Second, it is nonsense, because we're already in a modifying phrase, so there should be no need to point towards the noun we're talking about.Word up.

Hope that helps!

Hi Tommy,following your explanations is a great learning experience.
Can you elaborate on the line in bold that i have quoted above.
Also tommy,In the given sentence correction problem is there any ambiguity regarding whether the that clause in the SC question modifies only managerial blunders or all 3 nouns as a compound subject.If there is ambiguity then , dont we reject the option as the meaning is not clear
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 02 Sep 2010, 10:30
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Hey Munda,

Sure! Here's the sentence with answer choice E:

The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them.

Starting with the relative pronoun "that", we have a modifying clause that is modifying "blunders". This is the antecedent of "them". However, there's no need to REFER to the very word that we're in the process of modifying. It would be like saying:

I'm waiting for the woman that I love her.

We don't need the pronoun "her," because we're actually MODIFYING the word "woman."

Hope that makes sense!

-t
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 22 Sep 2010, 20:41
Thanks to all for the explanations. D it is.
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Re: The computer company’s present troubles [#permalink] New post 23 Sep 2010, 10:14
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Hey All,

I got asked this by PM (but don't PM me anymore, because I'm taking a break from the forums).

Isn't "It was a bad move in that it resulted in him getting dumped by Amy." similar to "The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders in that"

In both the sentences the verb is a form of "to be" .In the first case the verb is was and in the 2nd one the verb is are. Please explain the difference or is it that i havnt understood. I think C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them.


The problem Gurvinder is that it isn't modifying the right action. Notice in your first example how "in that" is modifying "was a bad move", and what comes after "in that" EXPLAINS HOW it's a bad move?

Well in the full sentence: The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders in that in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them.

Look at what comes after the "in that". This is NOT explaining how there were managerial blunders. This is explaining how the managerial blunders can't be corrected. That's not how you use it. This would be like saying "It was a bad move in that it was really bad." That doesn't explain HOW it was a bad move, so it doesn't work.

Make sense?

-t
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Re: Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of [#permalink] New post 25 Oct 2012, 06:53
Expert's post
In the question, would it have been correct if it were without "them" in C?
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Re: Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of [#permalink] New post 25 Oct 2012, 08:02
Expert's post
Marcab wrote:
In the question, would it have been correct if it were without "them" in C?


Hi @Marcab:

Even if we remove “them” from choice C, it will still remain incorrect. There are two reasons for that.
1. Use of “in that” is incorrect in this choice. The phrase “in that” elaborates on the “how” factor of the action in the previous clause. For example:
Children associate fun with Halloween in that they get to guise in spooky fashion and collect sweet “treats”.
However, use of “in that” does not make sense in choice C because it incorrectly presents the how aspect of “are the results…”. Here we need “that” to modify these problems that the company has not been able solve so far.

2. Also the phrase “several attempts to” is better and more precise that “several attempts at”.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of [#permalink] New post 25 Oct 2012, 10:12
Expert's post
Many thanks for the reply.
"....are result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it"
"HOW"are the company's present troubles a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders?
ANSWER: Because several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct the company's troubles.

As far as I think, if one is able to create a "how" question and is able to answer it, then the in that construction is valid.
Please let me know if I am missing something. I feel I am pretty naive in SC.

Moreover, please elaborate how you prefer "revising to" over "revising at". Both to and at are preposition and hence are followed by noun. What's wrong in that?
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Re: Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of [#permalink] New post 05 Jan 2013, 04:07
egmat wrote:
Marcab wrote:
In the question, would it have been correct if it were without "them" in C?


Hi @Marcab:

Even if we remove “them” from choice C, it will still remain incorrect. There are two reasons for that.
1. Use of “in that” is incorrect in this choice. The phrase “in that” elaborates on the “how” factor of the action in the previous clause. For example:
Children associate fun with Halloween in that they get to guise in spooky fashion and collect sweet “treats”.
However, use of “in that” does not make sense in choice C because it incorrectly presents the how aspect of “are the results…”. Here we need “that” to modify these problems that the company has not been able solve so far.

2. Also the phrase “several attempts to” is better and more precise that “several attempts at”.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha



Hi shraddha,
Please elaborate more on 'in that'

In the example you quoted, 'in that' is modifying the action 'associate' ?

Kindly let us know correct usages of 'in that' with examples..
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Re: Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2013, 21:42
Quote:

Kindly let us know correct usages of 'in that' with examples..
Regards,
Sach


Hi,

"Inthat" is used similar to "Because". But if given a choice between inthat and becuase, use of because is given preference. as per OG.

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Re: Q40 The computer companys present troubles are a result of   [#permalink] 05 Apr 2013, 21:42
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