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Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young

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Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 18:37
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Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.
(A) than any
(B) than any other
(C) than are any
(D) than those of any other
(E) as are those of any

Above question is from OG 12 - # 99.

Can somebody explain, why use of ellipsis (in option B) is not permissible here? For option B, there is no ambiguity in comparision - because comparison between 'works' and German Dramatist is illogical.

Verbal Experts, please explain..
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2013, 10:29
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@piyush ask ur self what role does that word play in the sentence to which u have been asking (the word ) to get ellipsed ? "works" is a part of a subject !! right ? now ask ur self can subject of the clause be ellipsed ? the answer is no !! and hence u need "those"
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2013, 08:18
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I think the scope of the word ambiguity is over-stretched here; there is absolutely no doubt or ambiguity about what is being compared. Only thing is that you are comparing two unequal or different things. So when the comparison itself is flawed, ellipsis cannot be used.
Secondly the first arm, namely, ‘his works’ is a possessive noun; the second arm also has to be in the possessive with a noun with AN apostrophe or preposition such as ‘that of’ or ‘those of’
Ellipsis will be perfectly ok with B, if we can make a small change therein.
Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any other contemporary German dramatist’s .
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 04 May 2014, 19:40
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akhil911 wrote:
egmat wrote:
akhil911 wrote:
Hi E-gmat team,

Can you please let us know why option B is incorrect.
As asked in the original question since the comparison is pretty clear why cant we use ellipsis here.


Dear Akhilesh,

I appreciate your question. However before I give you the answer, I would like to see your analysis. Please send me your meaning analysis and error analysis for choice A and the answer choice analysis for choice C. Also, I will give you a hint here – once you figure out what is wrong with choice A, you will be able to understand the error in choice B as well.

Regards,
Neeti.


Hi Neeti,

Apologies for replying late , i was diagnosed with chicken pox and was offline for a few days.
Here is my analysis of the question.

Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.
(A) than any
(B) than any other
(C) than are any
(D) than those of any other
(E) as are those of any

Meaning
Franz Xaver Kroetz has been ranked one of Europe's most important playwrigths.
He has written forty plays and his works
- have been translated into over thirty languages.
- and his works are produced more often than works of any other contemporary german dramatist.

Error analysis
The original sentence contains a comparison between frequency of Franz XK works with frequency of any other german dramatist.
The only error that i see here is the usage of "than any". This is incorrect as works of Franz XK also fall into this category "than any".
The sentence means to say that works of Franz XK are produced more often than works of any other german dramatist.
Here when we add any other then Franz XK is excluded from the list "any other" and the comparison makes sense.
Also works of need not be there in this sentence as it is used as an ellipsis and works and german dramatist comparison is illogical.

POE

(A) than any
- incorrect for the reasons mentioned above.
(B) than any other
- correct as per me
(C) than are any
- usage of are is incorrect
(D) than those of any other
- looks to me a wordy choice
(E) as are those of any
- usage of any is incorrect.
Makes the original mitake


Regards
Akhil

Dear Akhil,
Thank you for providing your analysis for this question and I hope you are feeling better now. 
You have done a great job in the meaning analysis. Kudos for that! I think the answer to your question is hidden in the meaning analysis itself. For ready reference, please find the same below:

Your analysis: Meaning

Franz Xaver Kroetz has been ranked one of Europe's most important playwrigths.
He has written forty plays and his works
- have been translated into over thirty languages.
- and his works are produced more often than works of any other contemporary german dramatist.

My comments:
While writing the intended comparison, you have taken care to write “than (the) works of any other contemporary German dramatist”. Clearly, you understand that logically the works of one person can be compared only with the works of another person and not to a complete other person.

Now coming to your analysis of Choice A :

The only error that i see here is the usage of "than any". This is incorrect as works of Franz XK also fall into this category "than any".
The sentence means to say that works of Franz XK are produced more often than works of any other german dramatist.
Here when we add any other then Franz XK is excluded from the list "any other" and the comparison makes sense.
Also works of need not be there in this sentence as it is used as an ellipsis and works and german dramatist comparison is illogical.


My comments:
You are correct in your understanding of the meaning and the literal place where the error is in choice A but your understanding of how that error affects the meaning of choice A is not correct. First of all, Franz XK is not present in the sentence, his works are. So if anything, the comparison is between Franz XK’s works and any German dramatist (irrespective of including or excluding Franz XK as a dramatist). Accordingly, Choice A compares XK’s works with any contemporary German dramatist, saying that the works of a person are produced more often than any German dramatist. This is clearly nonsensical. A dramatist cannot be produced. Plus, as stated earlier, a dramatist can be compared with another dramatist but a dramatists’ works cannot be compared with another dramatist. They have to be compared with the works of another dramatist and no, omitting a literal reference to works is not OK. Let’s look at different versions of another sentence to understand the same. The comparison we intend to convey is that a particular person’s movies (Don Jon’s) are more successful than the movies made by any other person.
1. Don Jon’s movies are more successful than any man.
2. Don Jon’s movies are more successful than any other man.
3. Don Jon’s movies are more successful than those of any other man.
In sentences 1 and 2 above, the only ellipsis at play is the one in the verbs. So, if we were to write the two sentences without any ellipsis, they would be:

1. Don Jon’s movies are more successful than any man is (successful).
2. Don Jon’s movies are more successful than any other man is (successful).

In both the cases, we are comparing the movies of a particular person with an actual person. Where you are getting confused is that “any man” can include Don Jon whereas “any other man” cannot include Don Jon. However, that difference is of no consequence here. Don Jon is not present in the sentence. His movies are. So we are comparing his movies with actual sets of people. This makes no sense. There is no other ellipsis in the two sentences above. However, let’s take the case of sentence number 3 and get rid of the ellipsis in it:

3. Don Jon’s movies are more successful than those of any other man are (successful).

The sentence makes complete sentence with or without the ellipsis in the verb. We are comparing the movies of a person with the movies of any other person. This is because we use “those” to refer back to movies. This literal reference is a MUST.
Do you see now how choices A and B in the official question commit the same errors as sentences 1 and 2 here and how choice D is the correct choice?

Please get rid of the ellipsis in the verbs in choices A and B and present me your new analysis for them. Also, to solidify your understanding of ellipsis in comparison, please visit our in depth article on the subject here: https://e-gmat.com/blogs/?p=3577



Hope the above discussion helps! :)



Regards,

Neeti.
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 18:52
Option B is wrong because it compares works with authors. You need to compare works with works of other authors. Even though it might seem illogical to compare works with authors, option A does exactly that.
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 18:55
Ivan91 wrote:
Option B is wrong because it compares works with authors. You need to compare works with works of other authors. Even though it might seem illogical to compare works with authors, option A does exactly that.


Still, I am not clear why can't we visualize B as than (those of) any other
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 19:03
Options A and B are in effect the same, they compare works with any (other) authors. We need to compare works with the works of any (other) author.

Than any other author and than THOSE OF any other author are completely different things. Again, "those of" changes everything.

" My books are different than any other authors" Doesnt sound good.
" My books are different than those of any other authors" Sounds good.
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 19:21
Ivan91 wrote:
Options A and B are in effect the same, they compare works with any (other) authors. We need to compare works with the works of any (other) author.

Than any other author and than THOSE OF any other author are completely different things. Again, "those of" changes everything.

" My books are different than any other authors" Doesnt sound good.
" My books are different than those of any other authors" Sounds good.


Hi Ivan, thanks for the explanation..i do understand that 'D' makes sense because it compares works with works, But my question is Why ellipsis can not be used here? ..I am asking this question with reference to the recently published article by e-gmat...as per that article ellipsis can be used when there is no ambiguity in comparison..
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2013, 17:00
daagh wrote:
I think the scope of the word ambiguity is over-stretched here; there is absolutely no doubt or ambiguity about what is being compared. Only thing is that you are comparing two unequal or different things. So when the comparison itself is flawed, ellipsis cannot be used.
Secondly the first arm, namely, ‘his works’ is a possessive noun; the second arm also has to be in the possessive with a noun with AN apostrophe or preposition such as ‘that of’ or ‘those of’
Ellipsis will be perfectly ok with B, if we can make a small change therein.
Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any other contemporary German dramatist’s .


Thanks very much daagh .. :)
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Re: Why use of Ellipsis is not permissible here [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2013, 04:01
piyushm01 wrote:
Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.
(A) than any
(B) than any other
(C) than are any
(D) than those of any other
(E) as are those of any

Above question is from OG 12 - # 99.

Can somebody explain, why use of ellipsis (in option B) is not permissible here? For option B, there is no ambiguity in comparision - because comparison between 'works' and German Dramatist is illogical.

Verbal Experts, please explain..


Personally, the easiest way to get the split is looking at the meaning only rather than applying a rule. You can simply the sentence just to read the last part:

his works are produced more often ___________ contemporary German dramatist.

(A) than any - comparing works against German dramatists
(B) than any other - comparing works against German dramatists
(C) than are any - comparing works against German dramatists
(D) than those of any other - correct comparison between works and the works of any other German dramatists
(E) as are those of any - correct comparison

So only D and E are possibilities. Then E uses the phrase "more often as" which is not correct. Therefore D
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 20 Apr 2014, 07:51
Hi E-gmat team,

Can you please let us know why option B is incorrect.
As asked in the original question since the comparison is pretty clear why cant we use ellipsis here.
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 23 Apr 2014, 01:56
Expert's post
akhil911 wrote:
Hi E-gmat team,

Can you please let us know why option B is incorrect.
As asked in the original question since the comparison is pretty clear why cant we use ellipsis here.


Dear Akhilesh,

I appreciate your question. However before I give you the answer, I would like to see your analysis. Please send me your meaning analysis and error analysis for choice A and the answer choice analysis for choice C. Also, I will give you a hint here – once you figure out what is wrong with choice A, you will be able to understand the error in choice B as well.

Regards,
Neeti.
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 24 Apr 2014, 03:58
Here 'those' should be used to convey the right intended meaning.
If 'those' is not mentioned, then it is not exactly clear what is the comparison about.

Ellipsis can only be assumed in cases when there is no ambiguity caused by the assumption.

Also, refer to how-far-ellipsis-is-permissible-in-comparison-148973.html
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 01 May 2014, 06:37
egmat wrote:
akhil911 wrote:
Hi E-gmat team,

Can you please let us know why option B is incorrect.
As asked in the original question since the comparison is pretty clear why cant we use ellipsis here.


Dear Akhilesh,

I appreciate your question. However before I give you the answer, I would like to see your analysis. Please send me your meaning analysis and error analysis for choice A and the answer choice analysis for choice C. Also, I will give you a hint here – once you figure out what is wrong with choice A, you will be able to understand the error in choice B as well.

Regards,
Neeti.


Hi Neeti,

Apologies for replying late , i was diagnosed with chicken pox and was offline for a few days.
Here is my analysis of the question.

Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.
(A) than any
(B) than any other
(C) than are any
(D) than those of any other
(E) as are those of any

Meaning
Franz Xaver Kroetz has been ranked one of Europe's most important playwrigths.
He has written forty plays and his works
- have been translated into over thirty languages.
- and his works are produced more often than works of any other contemporary german dramatist.

Error analysis
The original sentence contains a comparison between frequency of Franz XK works with frequency of any other german dramatist.
The only error that i see here is the usage of "than any". This is incorrect as works of Franz XK also fall into this category "than any".
The sentence means to say that works of Franz XK are produced more often than works of any other german dramatist.
Here when we add any other then Franz XK is excluded from the list "any other" and the comparison makes sense.
Also works of need not be there in this sentence as it is used as an ellipsis and works and german dramatist comparison is illogical.

POE

(A) than any
- incorrect for the reasons mentioned above.
(B) than any other
- correct as per me
(C) than are any
- usage of are is incorrect
(D) than those of any other
- looks to me a wordy choice
(E) as are those of any
- usage of any is incorrect.
Makes the original mitake


Regards
Akhil
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 06 May 2014, 09:15
Hi Neeti,

Thanks for the brilliant explanation as always.
I have become your fan and now enjoy learning this topic more than ever before.
Sentence correction has always been a nightmare for me from my days as a CAT aspirant but now i feel more confident than ever in approaching these question , thanks to you and the e-gmat team.
I still have a long way to go and hopefully will come away with flying colours.

I have a question though about ellipsis - is ellipsis always done on verbs.
I have gone through the blog post and also seen the same pattern there.
Are there any exceptions to this rule that you have seen in the gmat official questions so far.

Here is my analysis again for the question

Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.
(A) than any
(B) than any other
(C) than are any
(D) than those of any other
(E) as are those of any

Meaning
Franz Xaver Kroetz has been ranked one of Europe's most important playwrigths.
He has written forty plays and his works
- have been translated into over thirty languages.
- and his works are produced more often than works of any other contemporary german dramatist.

Error analysis
The original sentence contains a comparison between frequency of Franz XK works with any german dramatist.
This comparison does not make any sense and hence is incorrect.

POE

(A) than any
- incorrect comparison as mentioned above.
(B) than any other
- again incorrect comparison
(C) than are any
- incorrect comparison.
(D) than those of any other
- Correct - the comparison is appropriate now between works of Frank XZ and works of any other German dramatist.
(E) as are those of any
- does not convey the intended meaning.

I hope my analysis is proper this time.

Regards
Akhil
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young [#permalink] New post 08 May 2014, 23:28
Expert's post
akhil911 wrote:
Hi Neeti,

Thanks for the brilliant explanation as always.
I have become your fan and now enjoy learning this topic more than ever before.
Sentence correction has always been a nightmare for me from my days as a CAT aspirant but now i feel more confident than ever in approaching these question , thanks to you and the e-gmat team.
I still have a long way to go and hopefully will come away with flying colours.

I have a question though about ellipsis - is ellipsis always done on verbs.
I have gone through the blog post and also seen the same pattern there.
Are there any exceptions to this rule that you have seen in the gmat official questions so far.

Here is my analysis again for the question

Ranked as one of the most important of Europe’s young playwrights, Franz Xaver Kroetz has written forty plays; his works—translated into over thirty languages—are produced more often than any contemporary German dramatist.
(A) than any
(B) than any other
(C) than are any
(D) than those of any other
(E) as are those of any

Meaning
Franz Xaver Kroetz has been ranked one of Europe's most important playwrigths.
He has written forty plays and his works
- have been translated into over thirty languages.
- and his works are produced more often than works of any other contemporary german dramatist.

Error analysis
The original sentence contains a comparison between frequency of Franz XK works with any german dramatist.
This comparison does not make any sense and hence is incorrect.

POE

(A) than any
- incorrect comparison as mentioned above.
(B) than any other
- again incorrect comparison
(C) than are any
- incorrect comparison.
(D) than those of any other
- Correct - the comparison is appropriate now between works of Frank XZ and works of any other German dramatist.
(E) as are those of any
- does not convey the intended meaning.

I hope my analysis is proper this time.

Regards
Akhil


Dear Akhil,

Thank you for your kind words. I am really glad to hear that you have started enjoying SC. Great going. :)

Coming to your question regarding what entities can be omitted using ellipsis- the simple answer to this question would be that it depends on what we want to avoid repeating in the sentence without compromising the intended meaning of the author. An example of the same would be to use ellipsis to omit a preposition that is common to all the elements in a list. Consider the following simple sentence to understand this concept more:

Romano went to Paris in 1989 and he went to Paris in 2001.

Now from the above sentence, it’s clear that it was Romano who went to Paris in the mentioned two years. So he is the subject of both the clauses.
Accordingly, we can shorten the sentence by saying:

Romano went to Paris in 1989 and he went to Paris in 2001.

Again, we know that both the years take the same preposition – in. So we can avoid repeating the this preposition by using ellipsis and saying that:

Romano went to Paris in 1989 and in 2001. = Romano went to Paris in 1989 and 2001.

Let’s take an official example in which a preposition common to multiple elements has been omitted to avoid repetition (OG 13 q.84):

Recently physicians have determined that stomach ulcers are caused not by stress, alcohol, or rich foods, but by a bacterium that dwells in the mucous lining of the stomach.

Do you see the same pattern in the above choice? The preposition “by” has been left out after writing it in front of the first element (stress, alcohol, or rich foods). This is because each element in the list takes the same preposition. So for the sake of concision, we can avoid repeating the same---without compromising the meaning of the sentence. Also, besides the mentioned use of ellipsis in this sentence, can you point out another ellipsis in it?

As regards your analysis of the Franz XK question- great stuff indeed! Just one minor bit- choice E doesn’t convey any logical meaning.

Hope the above discussion helps! :)

Regards,
Neeti.
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Re: Ranked as one of the most important of Europe s young   [#permalink] 08 May 2014, 23:28
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