Find all School-related info fast with the new School-Specific MBA Forum

It is currently 22 Oct 2014, 22:49

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Events & Promotions

Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:
1 KUDOS received
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 5
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 3 [1] , given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2011, 10:59
1
This post received
KUDOS
Traditionally, IMD, INSEAD and LBS are considered the top schools in Europe. HEC is moving up fast, but I'm doubtful about their offering. Cambridge and Oxford moving up fast too, but their place in the MBA world depends ON what they do in the next 10 years. IMD though, has already made its place: It's the king of industry. I find it puzzling that IMD is not in the UE category. They are a small school, but they punch well above their weight. This can be discerned from their salary numbers and placement numbers. Even in MC, though by pure numbers they don't do so great, by percentage they punch at exactly the same strength as nearly all top US schools and European schools (minus INSEAD and LBS).

They may not place as many into MC as INSEAD or LBS by pure numbers, BUT you have to realize that the reason why 50% of people go into MC at all is to gain experience that would lead them towards the CEO track of top companies. If you feel that you can get into the top track without having first getting into MC, and be paid just as well, why would these people do MC?

No defence for finance weakness. I think this is where their real weakness is. But despite this, I'd still put them in UE. Their numbers are still better than others in the E category.
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 35
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 10 Oct 2011, 03:26
There's going to be a Forbes blog which discusses the London Business School MBA in some detail. It will also include details of interview questions, advice on approaching the application essays, and a discussion of the typical financing and scholarship arrangements.

First instalment here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwarddeari ... rspective/
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 2 [0], given: 1

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2011, 01:37
IMHO, the primary relative drawbacks of the European programs (not talking about INSEAD/LBS) is a relatively weak reputation in the US (assuming you are interested in working in the US), and difficulties in finding work in the country you studied at if you do not speak the local language or have work permits.
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 35
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 29 Oct 2011, 09:40
I think that's a legitimate concern. Given the importance of attending a school that your target employers network with (and recruit from) it probably only makes sense to attend a European program if (i) the particular program you are attending is well known in your target industry, or (ii) it's a top-ranked program, globally.
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 39
Location: Brazil
GMAT 1: 690 Q48 V35
GPA: 3.7
WE: Engineering (Aerospace and Defense)
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 5 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 03 Nov 2011, 14:41
Why is IESE better ranked than IE?
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 8
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 1 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 30 Dec 2011, 15:52
bsd_lover wrote:
I'm hesitant to put IMD in UE category for a two reasons :
1. Class size is way too small (appx 90 ?). Some might say selective, but I will say limited number of MBA alums worldwide to truly hit the UE status. IMD advertises its alum base to be 55,000, however the vast majority of them would be from either the EMBA or one of the other specialist courses.

2. Very low placements in Finance and MC. This can also be perhaps said to be a good thing. After all MBAs were designed to learn about business (i.e. industry), instead of being feeders for IB and MC. However, for a vast majority of MBA seekers, IMD's strength in industry, but lack of placements in IB/MC does not work.


Personally, I consider these two reasons as positives:

1. A smaller class size can mean a tighter knit group. If I was chosing my school, I would much rather pick the school with the smaller class size. I believe the alumni size is a red herring, or at least overly spun by the business schools. (It has made no difference to me whenever I've recruited staff.)

2. An MBA is supposed to be a post-experience course, in which you can learn from fellow students. I'd argue that you can learn a heck of a lot from a 32 year-old with perhaps a decade of industry experience. How much can you learn from someone who's only done two years in a MC before business school? I know whom I'd rather have as my classmate :)

topcan wrote:
If you feel that you can get into the top track without having first getting into MC, and be paid just as well, why would these people do MC?


Many people go into MC to accelerate their careers. However, people in industry may have already advanced beyond the point where a stint in MC would benefit. (This was the case in my career.) If you've already had rapid career advancement in industry, you wouldn't waste your time in management consultancy.

Finally, many older people won't tolerate an 80-90 hour week. Older people = less interest in Finance and MC.
Official Business School Representative
avatar
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 177
Followers: 23

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 04 Jan 2012, 02:55
Slightly off topic, but I write about my fears for what some MBA programs will do in 2012 in response to lower application numbers on my latest blog. I hope that it will be useful to candidates as they evaluate different MBA programs.

http://www.thecambridgembaadmissions.co ... s-in-2012/

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
University of Cambridge.
Expert Post
VP
VP
avatar
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 1120
Concentration: General Management, Strategy
Schools: Duke (Fuqua) - Class of 2012
Followers: 29

Kudos [?]: 328 [0], given: 19

Premium Member
Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 04 Feb 2012, 06:29
Expert's post
CambridgeMBA wrote:
Slightly off topic, but I write about my fears for what some MBA programs will do in 2012 in response to lower application numbers on my latest blog. I hope that it will be useful to candidates as they evaluate different MBA programs.

http://www.thecambridgembaadmissions.co ... s-in-2012/

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
University of Cambridge.
I think for some of the top schools, to compete for yield, are giving out more scholarships. From observing some GMATClub thread, it appears the # and the amount of scholarships have gone up. It's gonna be a battle of the purses. Either case, I think the quality of the students will go down. B-School need to cover overhead cost, which doesn't change much with smaller class size.
_________________

Diversity

Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 8
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 04 Feb 2012, 22:59
how many league table out there? which the most reliable one? thanks in advance
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 22
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 6

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 10 Feb 2012, 22:03
I want to know whether the top universities in Europe accept the students who did not clear some subjects of their undergraduate discipline in the first attempt, but did so in the second attempt. I read a similar question at some forum but was unanswered. Please share me any leads u have..
Official Business School Representative
avatar
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 177
Followers: 23

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 10 Feb 2012, 23:44
@Kansas

What do you mean by not clearing some subjects at the first attempt?

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
Cambridge
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 22
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 6

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 11 Feb 2012, 13:12
@Conrad Chua
Sir, at my college in India, we have exams at the end of each semester and then if in some of the subjects we fail to score >4/10, we are asked to reappear in a re-test for that particular subject within a mentioned time. Well, actually we get a grade card after the regular exams with the subjects having to be re-appeared on being marked 0 grade. And when we clear the re-tests for that particular subject we get a new grade card exclusive for that subjects. So this case is shown in the grade cards. I hope u understands how it happens...
So I wanted to know how and if this affects the application process.
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 10
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2012, 05:41
Nice sharing man.
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 47
Location: United Kingdom
Concentration: General Management, Organizational Behavior
GMAT 1: 710 Q47 V40
GPA: 4
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 18 [0], given: 4

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 28 Mar 2012, 12:50
Support that IMD should be moved into the UE bucket.

For me personally, I think reputation-wise and in terms of the program quality it beats Cambridge. For me, the choice boils down to IMD vs. LBS. and, were it not for personal circumstances (family, immigration status, etc.), IMD would definitely be the 1st choice.

In terms of programme quality and maturity as well as quality of career service, I think Cranfield is better or at least comparable to Cambridge. The advantages of Cambridge are potentially better quality students, due to higher selectivity and the "Cambridge" brand. Having said that, I don't think Judge BS yet lives up to the brand and quality one would expect to be associated with Cambridge. I don't know about Oxford, but it may have similar problems to that of Cambridge.
Official Business School Representative
avatar
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 177
Followers: 23

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2012, 05:38
@libraal

in what way would you say that "Cambridge Judge Business School does not live up to the brand and quality one would expect from Cambridge?"

I don't mean this in a defensive way. Rather at the school, we are always looking out for ways to improve. Just yesterday, we had a very good, useful session where an external consultant mapped out the brand vs what's actually happening, so I am keen to hear your views.

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
University of Cambridge
Manager
Manager
User avatar
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 149
Concentration: Strategy, Other
GMAT 1: Q V
GMAT 2: Q V
WE: Business Development (Consulting)
Followers: 7

Kudos [?]: 20 [0], given: 53

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2012, 06:59
CambridgeMBA wrote:
Just yesterday, we had a very good, useful session where an external consultant mapped out the brand vs what's actually happening, so I am keen to hear your views.

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
University of Cambridge
Would you be at liberty to talk about the views of the external consultant? Where in his views is the Cambridge brand excelling and lacking?
Quite curious and much appreciated!
Official Business School Representative
avatar
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 177
Followers: 23

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2012, 10:16
i can't go into too many details because it was an internal presentation, and it was more of a status report of a larger piece of work, but what was encouraging to me was that we were aware of most of the things covered, but the consultant offered a useful structure to frame our thoughts. I was also encouraged that at least the MBA marketing, which I oversee, was seen as being quite progressive compared to other schools. We had moved away from trying to dictate to the market what our values are, to a more transparent form of marketing where we allow the outside world to see how we do what we do, and let them form their own opinions of our brand and values.

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
Cambridge
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 47
Location: United Kingdom
Concentration: General Management, Organizational Behavior
GMAT 1: 710 Q47 V40
GPA: 4
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 18 [0], given: 4

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 31 Mar 2012, 05:53
CambridgeMBA wrote:
@libraal

in what way would you say that "Cambridge Judge Business School does not live up to the brand and quality one would expect from Cambridge?"

I don't mean this in a defensive way. Rather at the school, we are always looking out for ways to improve. Just yesterday, we had a very good, useful session where an external consultant mapped out the brand vs what's actually happening, so I am keen to hear your views.

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
University of Cambridge


Conrad,

I'll try my best to give an objective feedback and observations. Nothing personal and I do hope that Cambridge (and other MBA programs, if applicable) take this on board.
- Judge, similar to Oxford, effectively leverages the Cambridge brand, location and its collegial nature. This is emphasized in all of the marketing materials and even utilized during the interview day (dinner, Cambridge tour), etc. Utilizing it, it attracts lots of people from all over the world including US where Cambridge (and even perhaps more so Oxford) brands are strong.
- By effectively leveraging the brand, Cambridge (and Oxford) have successfully competed away students from the likes of Cranfield which have longer established programs. As part of the MBA experience is interaction and learning from fellow students, having more diverse and arguably more outstanding student body works in favour of Cambridge.
- One can say Cambridge to people who are not closely familiar with the MBA world and get an instant recognition. However, in the MBA brand world taken on its own likes of LBS and IMD have stronger brands and recognition. For example, an MBA HR recruiter at my company recognizes both IMD and LBS, but doesn't recruit and has nothing much to say about the likes of Cambridge and Cranfield. Although with Cranfield, my company runs an internal academy training.
- I don't believe that students actually get to draw as much benefit from the collegial nature as Cambridge claims them to. Firstly, part of them won't simply have the time to do so because the year is so short. For example, my understanding is that the social representatives this year were so busy at the beginning, that they hardly managed to put any time into arranging proper social activities. Secondly, although my sample may not be representative, more than half of the students I talked to couldn't give me proper examples of how they are benefitting from access to Cambridge colleges. On top of that most of the MBA students choose to be housed in the same college (one of the more modern ones, I can't remember the name now), so basically the MBAs interact with MBAs in the end rather than with the non-MBA students from other colleges.
- Career Services continues to be of questionable quality. I know Cambridge is trying to do something and it has revamped its CS by firing the old team but one and hiring new folks - you can perhaps shed more light on this. During the CS pitch a question was posed if CS folks individually helped students to find their dream job to which the answer was along the lines that "we're not yet on commission to do so". Now, this may have been an awkward joke, but every joke has a hint of truth. In Cranfield, CS reps did mention that they approach placement of each student individually without even being prompted the question. I do understand that CS has a tough task on their hands, but I shall leave it to other students to investigate. One thing that one could check is the assessment of the career services by students in the various rankings.
- During the engagement with the current students, I couldn't help the feeling that the ones the prospective students go to speak with were effectively drilled to only mention the positives without ANY mention of the negatives. Now, I don't know if all schools do it, but apparently at Cambridge students are instructed not to share the negatives with external parties under the threat of damaging the school reputation/ranking and, thus, effectively ruining their own future. One perhaps gets this with other schools, but the students from other top schools I've interacted with tend to be frank enough and at least admit some shortcomings of their school. With ethics trumpeted by every school and preached at every corner, I feel like I'm being lied by a marketing without even having the luxury of the "small print". To me this borders misrepresentation and fraud!
- Finer touches may distinguish one school from another. As with people, taking rejection and formative feedback with grace sometimes distinguishes top performers from the rest. One can go through the hassle of writing a lengthy apologetic e-mail explaining the reasons for rejecting a school and then at the minimum expect a short thank you and wishing of luck in the future (INSEAD do this). Now, how about implementing this small tweak with Cambridge AdComs? A little thank you goes a long way and costs you nothing.
- Continuing on admitting mistakes and dealing with failures - a subject so close to every MBA applicant. I appreciate the Cambridge brand, etc., but there is a fine line between confidence and snobbery/haugtiness. I, therefore, found your post "What got me hopping mad on Saturday" (http://www.thecambridgembaadmissions.co ... -saturday/) and responses to disapproving feedback very disturbing. I see nothing criminal in the question "Why Cambridge?", it's an absolutely legitimate question and the same question could be asked about other schools with even longer history. MBA programs are products sold to the end customers. Now as an end customer and buyer of something expensive, would you buy something without asking "Why X and not Y"?
- A rhethoric question is "Are MBA programmes similar to vineyards?" If yes, then somethings will only come with maturity and vintage. In which case, one could argue that Cranfield with its longer established programme could be a safer bet than Cambridge. However, Cambridge does have the strong international brand going for it and perhaps in the next few decades its MBA programme indeed will have the maturity/vintage to complement rather than contradict its brand.

Best wishes!
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 47
Location: United Kingdom
Concentration: General Management, Organizational Behavior
GMAT 1: 710 Q47 V40
GPA: 4
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 18 [0], given: 4

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 01 Apr 2012, 01:39
bsd_lover wrote:
I'd appreciate some constructive reasoning behind any assertions. Please read page 1 of this thread where I outlined the reasons why I put schools in their respective buckets.


Hi bsd_lover,

I think there have now been enough people in this thread arguing that IMD should be moved to UE and it clearly doesn't belong in the Elite bucket as it is perceived stronger than the other schools in that bucket including students matriculating there. Also, I know plenty of people including myself for whom the choice is between IMD vs. INSEAD/LBS or a top-ranking US school.

If you want your good initiative to continue reflecting the reality (and perception), I believe IMD should be moved to UE.

Thanks & best!
Official Business School Representative
avatar
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 177
Followers: 23

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 0

Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 03 Apr 2012, 03:04
@libraal

You posted quite a few points and I will try to address them all.

a. We do not tell students what to say to prospective candidates, and we definitely don't tell students or alums to ignore the negatives. In fact, I have heard our students share negatives about certain classes they took with prospective candidates. And this was in my presence so our MBAs definitely do not feel pressured to respond in a certain way. I take your allegation that we have misrepresented facts and are guilty of fraud seriously so if you are unable to give concrete evidence to the contrary, you should retract your statement.

b. The college experience. It is an important part of the Cambridge experience but it is up to students to get as much as they want from it. It is true that, compared to undergrads who are here for 3 years, MBAs have to work harder to strike a balance between their activities in the school and college. And for many MBAs, they have a stronger affiliation to the Business School compared to undergrads to their respective departments, largely because MBAs have to spend a lot more time in the Business School. So in any sample, there will be some students who have decided to put in a lot more time to their colleges than others. In this year's class, there is one MBA who has participated in several college comedy performances (which is a big thing in Cambridge where the likes of Stephen Fry got their start); some row for their colleges; one sings in a college chapel choir (again a big tradition in Cambridge); and another MBA had the honour of speaking at the Cambridge Union. It was unfortunate that you did not meet these students when you were here, perhaps you were in our most recent interview round when we had a record turnout and hence it might have been difficult to meet many students.

c. Unlike Oxford, our MBAs are spread throughout the colleges. For those MBAs who prefer to spend more time with other MBAs, Hughes Hall is a good fit, but even then no more than 30% of our MBAs are in Hughes Hall. We have MBAs in historic colleges such as Queens, Downing, Pembroke, St Catherine's, St John's although the number in each college might not be large because some of these colleges are predominantly for undergrads. Then there are MBAs who choose certain colleges because they have accommodation for families. The bottomline is that there is a much larger choice of colleges at Cambridge. Again, perhaps you happened to meet a sample of students who were all from Hughes Hall.

d. Career Services do adopt an individual approach with students. There are 1-on-1s held at the beginning of the year and students are free to schedule further sessions with careers. We expect that the changes to our careers services will result in improvements in our rankings later on. Note that any assessment of career services in rankings is delayed --- what you see in the FT is the alum's assessment of the career services then.

e. My last point is an important one, which is the balance between the responsibilities of students and schools. This was the point I was making in the blog post that you mentioned, and I think it is the context behind the remark from Career Services that you quoted. At Cambridge, we believe that the school has responsibilities to provide the environment for our students to get the best education possible, and give them the tools and networks for a post-MBA job. At the same time, we expect our students to take on personal responsibility to make use of the opportunities that we provide, but they cannot expect the school to do everything for them. It is the balance that we strive for. And it is why we sometimes take students that other schools ignore because we think these are students whom we think can both benefit from, and contribute to, the educational experience here, even though post-MBA jobs might be a challenge for them. We make this clear to these students early on, so that they make the right decisions for themselves. This is why Career Services and Admissions are realistic with candidates about their post-MBA possibilities. I know other schools focus exclusively on the post-MBA employability of their students so they screen out anyone who has a whiff of uncertainty from admissions --- these schools don't have to do the same degree of expectations managing that we do.

Conrad Chua
Head MBA Admissions
Cambridge
Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools   [#permalink] 03 Apr 2012, 03:04
    Similar topics Author Replies Last post
Similar
Topics:
1 Various B-School Questions jmj8778 1 16 Feb 2014, 20:04
International B-school ranking system weijunzi 1 26 Mar 2013, 07:22
Experts publish their posts in the topic BusinessWeek international b-school ranking tmino 5 14 Nov 2010, 12:15
Public BSchools ranking. skkumar 4 18 Mar 2007, 12:25
MBA Ranking International Business Hjort 2 20 Jun 2005, 14:41
Display posts from previous: Sort by

Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  

Go to page   Previous    1   2   3   4   5   6   7    Next  [ 123 posts ] 



GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Privacy Policy| Terms and Conditions| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group and phpBB SEO

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.